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Amph Beleriand Tales: The Discussion of the first age of the Middle Earth

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by Jacen-Vader, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. Jacen-Vader

    Jacen-Vader Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 6, 2005
    EDIT:

    This topic is for the Non Lord of the Rings discussions about Tolkien Books.
     
  2. Zebra3

    Zebra3 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 28, 2004
    I absolutely loved The Silmarillian. Great stuff, the history of Middle Earth is wonderful reading :)
     
  3. Jacen-Vader

    Jacen-Vader Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 6, 2005
    Yes, all the stuff of the Valars, Morgoth are great. I have read this book after LOTR, and when says that Sauron is the servant of Morgoth... thats a shock. :p
     
  4. Zebra3

    Zebra3 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 28, 2004
    I know what you mean! If someone like Sauron was just a lackey in that time, it makes you wonder at Morgoth's true power.

    Plus it was great seeing the reference to Grond (that huge battering ram in RotK) explained. I never quite understood what Tolkien were getting at when he called it the "hammer of the underworld" or whatever it was.
     
  5. Jacen-Vader

    Jacen-Vader Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 6, 2005
    Yes, yes, also Gothmog, the Nagul and the ancient and legendary Valaraukar.
     
  6. Axle-Starweilder

    Axle-Starweilder Jedi Master star 6

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    Jan 6, 2005
    was there ever a specific link to any of the characters in the first age to tom bombadail? i know gandalf had another alias during this period and was somewhat/rather established... but about tom, was it ever made plain who he was in this era, or if he was?
     
  7. Jacen-Vader

    Jacen-Vader Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 6, 2005
    Yes, in this era Mithandir is Olorin. And I have read that Tom is a maiar but not other name.
     
  8. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 14, 2001
    The story of Beren and Luthien surprised me. Especially since I only remember its very brief mention in the FotR:EE movie. (i.e. not sure what the book says about the two again - does it give the whole poem?). I thought it was 'just a love story'.
    But actually, for me it's the point where it gets really interesting. Those two kick some dark butts :eek: Who would've thought? And despite all the action (which I didn't expect at all) it is so tragic. I think it's my favorite story. Also because it features Morgoth and Angmar a bit more and a bit more detailed. Nice.

    Also, some other guy is cool, but I actually forgot his name. It sounded cool, though.
     
  9. Amon_Amarth

    Amon_Amarth Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 27, 2005
    The Silmarillion pwns!!!! Morgoth is so cool that Sauron couldn't even lick his boots. :p

    Now seriously, old ages of Middle-Earth and Beleriand are my favourite tales of Tolkien's world. My favourite parts are Ainulindale and Quenta Silmarillion. It is funny to see the rational Elves we've come to know in LOTR to be so...fierce in their early days.
     
  10. Jacen-Vader

    Jacen-Vader Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 6, 2005
    I agree with you. I prefer the Silmarilion to the LOTR.
    The best part for me is: the story of Luthien and Beren; and The Story of Eärendil. The Noldors and Feanaro rocks
     
  11. Amon_Amarth

    Amon_Amarth Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jan 27, 2005
    Feanor is actualy on eof my favourite characters of all times.

    [image=http://lucifer.fantasy.org.tw/paper/painter/pic/dm-feanor62.jpg]
     
  12. Jacen-Vader

    Jacen-Vader Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 6, 2005
    Ohhh, the pic is fantastic... really fantastic, is now my desktop theme. I have the guide ilustrated of David Day and Feanaro is not so fantastic is like a general roman or anything so.
     
  13. Axle-Starweilder

    Axle-Starweilder Jedi Master star 6

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    Jan 6, 2005
    i tried to use feanor once as a word when i was playin scrabble. sadly, i was denied.
     
  14. Kyptastic

    Kyptastic VIP star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Sep 10, 2005
    What is everyones favorite Chapter of the Quenta Silmarillion.

    Mine is Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin. Especially the part where Turin walks past Tuor and Voronwe.

    If you read Unfinsihed tales of Numenor and Middle Earth it adds on to the tales of Tuor, and especially the tale of the children of Hurin.
     
  15. Neon Star

    Neon Star Jedi Knight star 5

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    Mar 30, 2000
    I have to say The Fall of Gondolin is my favorite out of the Quenta Silmarillion. I have a fondness for the deaths of Ecthelion, and Glorfindel, though those are very short parts in it.

    It has been a while since I've read The Silmarillion, but there are quite a few parts that stay with me. Such as the detailing with the fate, known or unknown, of Elured and Elurin, as well as the backstory on Elrond and Elros, and the fates of Maedhros and Maglor, as well as the other sons of Feanor.
     
  16. Jacen-Vader

    Jacen-Vader Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 6, 2005
    Yes the Fall of Gondolin is the best for me, too. Also the final chapter (of Earendil and the ....) are very good.

    Yes in Unfinsihed tales of Numenor and Middle Earth apear the history of Tuor, but sadly until he entry to Gondolin.
     
  17. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 27, 2003
    I love the Silmarillion, Beren and Lúthien especially, and I agree with everyone who mentioned Sauron in comparison to Morgoth. In the Silmarillion, Sauron gets brought down by a dog. A Valar hound, yes, but a creature that has weaponry totalling claws and teeth. Go Sauron.

    One of the other reasons I like Silmarillion is because we get a lot more insight into the Elves. LOTR elves are a little more humble because they know their race is dying, but the Elves of the First Age have arrogance up to here. They are the personal creation of Eru, after all. This seems to manifest itself rather particularly in the sons of Fëanor; Celegorm and Curufin in particular think they own the world.

    I love how Tolkien manages to combine these flawed, natural characters with a setting and a story that's closer to myth. It's a fantastic read - I think I prefer it to the LOTR books.

    Has anyone else here read the Lays of Beleriand? Christopher Tolkien published them after he did the Unfinished Tales. The Lays are two long poems, the Narn i Hîn Húrin in alliterative verse telling the story of Túrin Turambar, and the Lay of Leithian in rhyme, telling the story of Beren and Lúthien. Neither of them's finished, but both of them are pretty darn good - Leithian in particular is great. The section where Beren is brought before Thingol on a charge of bewitching Lúthien is incredible, wonderful dramatic and epic poetry.

    I'll see if I can find some of it online - everyone who liked Silmarillion should at least have a look.
     
  18. Raja_Io

    Raja_Io Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 28, 2005
    Silmarillion is a great book indeed... But I don't think I could say it pwns, or that Beren and Luthien "kikck some butts"... But oh well [face_plain]


    My favourite chapter is the story of Turin Turambar and Nienor Niniel :_|
     
  19. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 27, 2003
    The story of Túrin and Nienor is heartbreaking. Túrin, I think, is definitely the Silmarillion's tragic hero - Beren is more of a straight-up nice guy, and he and Lúthien live happily ever after, insofar as anyone in the same world as Morgoth lives happily.
     
  20. Lord_of_all_Noldor

    Lord_of_all_Noldor Jedi Youngling star 3

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    Aug 30, 2005
    What is everyones favorite Chapter of the Quenta Silmarillion.

    Beren & Luthien
    Their story is amazing!

    I adore Silmarillion. IMO it is the best book ever written!!! My favourite character is Fingolfin. ;)
    Awesome pic, Amon! Hey, you got your username form Silmarillion, right?
     
  21. Jacen-Vader

    Jacen-Vader Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 6, 2005
    Yes, Fingolfin is nice. The Battle between Fingolfin and Morgoth is epic.
     
  22. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 27, 2003
    Definitely. Morgoth and Fingolfin is the kind of duel that puts Silmarillion firmly in the realms of myth and legend - there's just nobody of that kind of stature ten millennia later in LOTR. The Elves have faded and Morgoth is no more.

    On the subject, I found a snippet of the Lay of Leithian online. As it happens their sample text is from the part where Tolkien describes the battle of Fingolfin and Morgoth: [link=http://tolkien.cro.net/talesong/leithan.html]here[/link]
     
  23. Jacen-Vader

    Jacen-Vader Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 6, 2005
    Great. Thanks Jedi Nemesis.

    I have found this image. Fingolfin vs. Morgoth

    http://tolkienilu.chez-alice.fr/epopee/illustrations/silmarillion/morgoth_et_fingolfin_2.jpg
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have a doubt. Finaly Maglor die or not.
     
  24. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

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    Mar 27, 2003
    Well, Tolkien never says he does. Hang on, I'll find my Silmarillion and look it up.

    So no, he doesn't die in the timespan of the Silmarils. Who knows, perhaps he eventually killed himself like Maedhros did, or perhaps he just . . . faded away and out of knowledge.

    EDIT: That's a great pic, Jacen-Vader.
     
  25. Raja_Io

    Raja_Io Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 28, 2005
    I think I've got this picture in my book...

    Speaking of Tom Bombadil, I've once heard a theory that he's Iluvatar himself :D
     
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