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Amph Beleriand Tales: The Discussion of the first age of the Middle Earth

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by Jacen-Vader, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. Sauntaero

    Sauntaero Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 9, 2003
    I've found this one useful, though I'm not sure if it's exactly accurate.

    [link=http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/a/a4/A_Map_of_Middle-earth_and_the_Undying_Lands_(color).jpg]Middle-earth and the Undying Lands[/link]

    EDIT: actually, the later 'Middle-earth' part would have to be further north than is shown, to match up with the hill of Himring. I would place the Gulf of Lune much farther north, maybe near Belegost and Nogrod, or shift the orientation: geographically, Beleriand could not be hospitable if it was that far north!
     
  2. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 12, 2000
    At the least, its a possible way to work them together. Thanks!
     
  3. Sauntaero

    Sauntaero Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 9, 2003
    whoops! check the edit I added to previous post!
     
  4. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 12, 2000
    That's not necessarily the case - weather can be a funny thing, with northern areas sometimes being more hospitable than areas farther south (not including way south). Plus, I don't think we have any indications of weather getting REALLY cold anywhere in LotR-era Middle Earth, besides up in the mountains, which doesn't count. Though I could be forgetting something..
     
  5. Sauntaero

    Sauntaero Jedi Master star 4

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    Jul 9, 2003
    hmmm. well, I don't have my Atlas of Middle-earth with me... I think as far as climate goes, Rivendell was in a temperate-continental area, maybe around 40 degrees N, so it seems to me that much farther north than that would be really cold (unless near the Sea). I'd still vote to shift the orientation, but Himring still doesn't match.

    EDIT: for comparison, England is at ~55 degrees but gets the gulf stream. On the continent at 55 degrees is Siberia.
     
  6. black_saber

    black_saber Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 4, 2002
    I have a feeling that they might do the Simirlian storys into movies as well as Childern of Hurin too.
     
  7. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 12, 2000
    The Silmarillion stories would never work as movies. I love the Sil, but it should stay as it is.
     
  8. black_saber

    black_saber Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 4, 2002
    I did not mean the Silmarillion book itself but I meant was some of the different storys. As well as Childern of Hurin.
     
  9. timmoishere

    timmoishere Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jun 2, 2007
    The gullibility is strong with this one.
     
  10. black_saber

    black_saber Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Apr 4, 2002
    They may work into movies if Done Write by a good Director.
     
  11. Jedi_Drizzt

    Jedi_Drizzt Jedi Youngling star 1

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    Nov 11, 2006
    Prety cool map. But is it official? As far as I know Tolkien never wanted to make one. [face_thinking]
    Never heard of Gulf of Lune before. or i just can't remember it. And I read all the books. Could anyone tell me where it makes appearance?
     
  12. Merlin_Ambrosius69

    Merlin_Ambrosius69 Jedi Master star 5

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    Aug 4, 2008
    Those maps look like slightly more detailed and expanded versions of those offered in Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle Earth. The Undying Lands look to have been cobbled together from Fonstad's map of Valinor, with features like the Trees placed speculatively rather than owing to authorial detail. Fonstad's book is published by Houghton-Mifflin and researched laboriously by a career cartographer, so one expects her work to be as official as it can be.

    As to the Gulf of Lune, it's mentioned (as the Gulf of Lhun) in FOTR (p 16), ROTK (p. 396) and TS (p. 354) of the Ballantine editions. My Guide to ME says:


    [blockquote]GULF OF LHUN Great gulf of Belegaer cutting through the Ered Luin to the mouth of the River Lhun, created in the breaking of Beleriand at the end of the First Age. Its harbors were the Harlond, the Forlond, and the Grey Havens.
    Also called the Gulf of Lune.[/blockquote]

    Hope that helps!


     
  13. Salty

    Salty Jedi Master star 5

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    Dec 24, 1998

    I think it could be done pretty well if the director was able to do what Jackson did and make the story more cohesive. I'd love to see the final battle between Morgoth, the balrogs, the elves, and the Valar.


    Children of Hurin would be a good movie by itself.
     
  14. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 2, 2007
    I've always wanted to put pen to paper, so to speak, and write a mini-series screenplay for The Silmarillion. It's my favorite story, and I think that if done correctly, as a television miniseries, it would be good. I'm afraid to start, though, because of the enormity of the task once I start.

    Also, the RPG has some wonderful maps of Arda. As for the map already shown, I always pictured Numenor being more northerly.
     
  15. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 2, 2007
    Double post, but bah:

    So I ended up re-reading the Notes On Pronunciation for the first time in a few years...I was mispronouncing so many things. I mean, I got some things like Carcaroth and Feanor right, but I got Yavanna and Aule completely wrong. I always thought it was "Yavana but it's Yavan-na". Interesting how you take names for granted in a book where the names and the linguistics are the most important thing.
     
  16. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 12, 2000
    The Pronunciation Guide is pretty important for Middle Earth, especially in the Silmarillion. I probably should double check some of them myself, though I've looked through it before.
     
  17. timmoishere

    timmoishere Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Jun 2, 2007
    I always pronounced Yavanna as "rhymes with savannah"
     
  18. MrZAP

    MrZAP Jedi Master star 5

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    Jun 2, 2007
    I did too, but that's apparently not the correct pronunciation.
     
  19. AussieRebel

    AussieRebel Jedi Master star 2

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    May 2, 2005
    I think Yavanna is a Sindarin name; as such I believe the stress is placed on the penultimate sylable. So it goes Ya-vaaa-nah, with the "va" emphasised and elongated.
     
  20. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 12, 2000
    I'm in the process of doing a complete Tolkien re-read, including everything from the Silmarillion to LotR, the Unfinished Tales, Lost Tales, etc., etc. Finished rereading the Sil the other day and am almost finished with Children of Hurin... I have to say its quite amusing reading those back to back. Get the occasional "wow, that paragraph seems really familiar. Yep, its word-for-word identical to the paragraph in the Silmarillion" :p
     
  21. Darth McClain

    Darth McClain Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 5, 2000
    I love the First Age. Glad that this thread was unlocked and bumped.

    Yep, I think that there was just a bit of overlap between the Sil and Children of Hurin. :p I love 'em both, though. Hurin/Turin was probably my favorite story in the Sil.

    What's the Book of Lost Tales like? I've looked at those a few times, but haven't decided whether they'd be worth getting or not.
     
  22. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 12, 2000
    Yeah, the story of Turin is especially good. My favorite story from the Sil is still Beren and Luthien, though. I'd love to have a longer version of that.

    Its been quite a while (several years) since I read Lost Tales, so I'll update this when I do (it'll be after RotK, because I'm going Sil-CoH-Hobbit-LotR-everything else, where "everything else" begins with Lost Tales)... but as I recall, it was pretty good. Especially for those who liked the Silmarillion, its probably worth getting. For those who don't like the Sil, I'd say not to bother, but that's not you ;) I'll provide a bit more detail once I get there :)
     
  23. Darth McClain

    Darth McClain Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 5, 2000
    Beren and Luthien is a really good story, too. That could be a great book. But the ending of Hurin's story is so powerful and emotionally gripping, though. Tough to top.

    Cool. At some point, I need to try Unfinished Tales again. I started it a couple months ago, after I had read The Hobbit, LOTR, and then the Sil in pretty quick succession, so maybe I just needed a break from Tolkein when I tried it the first time.
     
  24. Rogue...Jedi

    Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jan 12, 2000
    I would use the word "tragic" to describe the story of Hurin and Turin... but it just seems to fall way short.
     
  25. Darth McClain

    Darth McClain Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 5, 2000
    Tragic really doesn't begin to cover the depths of it. Morgoth is one evil creature, that's for sure.
     
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