Amph Beleriand Tales: The Discussion of the first age of the Middle Earth

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by Jacen-Vader, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. Sauntaero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2003
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    I've found this one useful, though I'm not sure if it's exactly accurate.

    Middle-earth and the Undying Lands

    EDIT: actually, the later 'Middle-earth' part would have to be further north than is shown, to match up with the hill of Himring. I would place the Gulf of Lune much farther north, maybe near Belegost and Nogrod, or shift the orientation: geographically, Beleriand could not be hospitable if it was that far north!
  2. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    At the least, its a possible way to work them together. Thanks!
  3. Sauntaero Force Ghost

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    Jul 9, 2003
    star 4
    whoops! check the edit I added to previous post!
  4. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

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    That's not necessarily the case - weather can be a funny thing, with northern areas sometimes being more hospitable than areas farther south (not including way south). Plus, I don't think we have any indications of weather getting REALLY cold anywhere in LotR-era Middle Earth, besides up in the mountains, which doesn't count. Though I could be forgetting something..
  5. Sauntaero Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 2003
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    hmmm. well, I don't have my Atlas of Middle-earth with me... I think as far as climate goes, Rivendell was in a temperate-continental area, maybe around 40 degrees N, so it seems to me that much farther north than that would be really cold (unless near the Sea). I'd still vote to shift the orientation, but Himring still doesn't match.

    EDIT: for comparison, England is at ~55 degrees but gets the gulf stream. On the continent at 55 degrees is Siberia.
  6. black_saber Force Ghost

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    Apr 4, 2002
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    I have a feeling that they might do the Simirlian storys into movies as well as Childern of Hurin too.
  7. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

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    Jan 12, 2000
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    The Silmarillion stories would never work as movies. I love the Sil, but it should stay as it is.
  8. black_saber Force Ghost

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    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    I did not mean the Silmarillion book itself but I meant was some of the different storys. As well as Childern of Hurin.
  9. timmoishere Chosen One

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    Jun 2, 2007
    star 6
    The gullibility is strong with this one.
  10. black_saber Force Ghost

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    Apr 4, 2002
    star 4
    They may work into movies if Done Write by a good Director.
  11. Jedi_Drizzt Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2006
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    Prety cool map. But is it official? As far as I know Tolkien never wanted to make one. [face_thinking]
    Never heard of Gulf of Lune before. or i just can't remember it. And I read all the books. Could anyone tell me where it makes appearance?
  12. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Those maps look like slightly more detailed and expanded versions of those offered in Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle Earth. The Undying Lands look to have been cobbled together from Fonstad's map of Valinor, with features like the Trees placed speculatively rather than owing to authorial detail. Fonstad's book is published by Houghton-Mifflin and researched laboriously by a career cartographer, so one expects her work to be as official as it can be.

    As to the Gulf of Lune, it's mentioned (as the Gulf of Lhun) in FOTR (p 16), ROTK (p. 396) and TS (p. 354) of the Ballantine editions. My Guide to ME says:


    GULF OF LHUN Great gulf of Belegaer cutting through the Ered Luin to the mouth of the River Lhun, created in the breaking of Beleriand at the end of the First Age. Its harbors were the Harlond, the Forlond, and the Grey Havens.
    Also called the Gulf of Lune.


    Hope that helps!


  13. Salty Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 1998
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    I think it could be done pretty well if the director was able to do what Jackson did and make the story more cohesive. I'd love to see the final battle between Morgoth, the balrogs, the elves, and the Valar.


    Children of Hurin would be a good movie by itself.
  14. MrZAP Force Ghost

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    Jun 2, 2007
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    I've always wanted to put pen to paper, so to speak, and write a mini-series screenplay for The Silmarillion. It's my favorite story, and I think that if done correctly, as a television miniseries, it would be good. I'm afraid to start, though, because of the enormity of the task once I start.

    Also, the RPG has some wonderful maps of Arda. As for the map already shown, I always pictured Numenor being more northerly.
  15. MrZAP Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2007
    star 5
    Double post, but bah:

    So I ended up re-reading the Notes On Pronunciation for the first time in a few years...I was mispronouncing so many things. I mean, I got some things like Carcaroth and Feanor right, but I got Yavanna and Aule completely wrong. I always thought it was "Yavana but it's Yavan-na". Interesting how you take names for granted in a book where the names and the linguistics are the most important thing.
  16. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

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    The Pronunciation Guide is pretty important for Middle Earth, especially in the Silmarillion. I probably should double check some of them myself, though I've looked through it before.
  17. timmoishere Chosen One

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    Jun 2, 2007
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    I always pronounced Yavanna as "rhymes with savannah"
  18. MrZAP Force Ghost

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    Jun 2, 2007
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    I did too, but that's apparently not the correct pronunciation.
  19. AussieRebel Force Ghost

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    May 2, 2005
    star 1
    I think Yavanna is a Sindarin name; as such I believe the stress is placed on the penultimate sylable. So it goes Ya-vaaa-nah, with the "va" emphasised and elongated.
  20. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    I'm in the process of doing a complete Tolkien re-read, including everything from the Silmarillion to LotR, the Unfinished Tales, Lost Tales, etc., etc. Finished rereading the Sil the other day and am almost finished with Children of Hurin... I have to say its quite amusing reading those back to back. Get the occasional "wow, that paragraph seems really familiar. Yep, its word-for-word identical to the paragraph in the Silmarillion" :p
  21. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    I love the First Age. Glad that this thread was unlocked and bumped.

    Yep, I think that there was just a bit of overlap between the Sil and Children of Hurin. :p I love 'em both, though. Hurin/Turin was probably my favorite story in the Sil.

    What's the Book of Lost Tales like? I've looked at those a few times, but haven't decided whether they'd be worth getting or not.
  22. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    Yeah, the story of Turin is especially good. My favorite story from the Sil is still Beren and Luthien, though. I'd love to have a longer version of that.

    Its been quite a while (several years) since I read Lost Tales, so I'll update this when I do (it'll be after RotK, because I'm going Sil-CoH-Hobbit-LotR-everything else, where "everything else" begins with Lost Tales)... but as I recall, it was pretty good. Especially for those who liked the Silmarillion, its probably worth getting. For those who don't like the Sil, I'd say not to bother, but that's not you ;) I'll provide a bit more detail once I get there :)
  23. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

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    Feb 5, 2000
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    Beren and Luthien is a really good story, too. That could be a great book. But the ending of Hurin's story is so powerful and emotionally gripping, though. Tough to top.

    Cool. At some point, I need to try Unfinished Tales again. I started it a couple months ago, after I had read The Hobbit, LOTR, and then the Sil in pretty quick succession, so maybe I just needed a break from Tolkein when I tried it the first time.
  24. Rogue...Jedi Administrator Emeritus

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    Jan 12, 2000
    star 7
    I would use the word "tragic" to describe the story of Hurin and Turin... but it just seems to fall way short.
  25. Darth McClain Arena Manager Emeritus

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    Feb 5, 2000
    star 6
    Tragic really doesn't begin to cover the depths of it. Morgoth is one evil creature, that's for sure.
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