Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by Jacen-Vader, Jan 3, 2006.
Okay, you're forgiven
Cobra, you know, I like rhis ^^ parody, I really like parodies of Tolkien (as far as an author really knows the books). But Orion's comments were silly and offensive.
This is not supposed to be a SERIOUS THREAD, just usage of some words in some situations seems... unsuitable to me.
True, but when dealing with incest you have to treat it humourously lest you find it offensive
Sometimes all you can do is laugh...
I think that's the clearest it's been said so far. I was being an idiot with the whole SERIOUS THREAD thing, but let's not dissolve into total anarchy here
I just ignored it, you know. Viciously
So, you've put that little heresy of yours here too, Cobra. Your soul shall burn in the dungeons of Angband. You shall suffer in agony until you become an orc.
I've read that tom bombadil is just a random character that Tolkien threw into the book who just existed before there was light or trees or anything else in middle earth...i dont believe he is a valar or illuvator though
I personally would propose a voting for cannon of Bombadil's identity.
My vote is for Eru Iluvatar
Maiar, but not Eru.
Who is Bombadil?
Just a strange old guy ~ 0 votes
A Maiar in disguise ~ 1 vote
Iluvatar himself in disguise ~ 1 vote
Please welcome the First Beleriand Tales Opinion Poll!
Maiar, but one that was more connected with Eru Illuvatar
None of those - I believe he is the embodiment of Arda as a person. Tolkien himself addressed the issue and declared that he was not Eru. Thus, he must be something else. All of the Valar are accounted for; he cannot be one of them. He was on Arda before Melkor descended at the beginning - thus he is not a Maia or a Vala. He is separate from Eru and the Ainur. He is something else entirely.
The spirit of Arda? That honestly had never crossed my mind. But now you mention it, it's a beguiling theory - Bombadil does seem to have something of the land itself in him, and he is unlike most of the other races we meet.
I'll have to think about this.
But Arda was created by Eru, so how can he be 'separate'? He would then be another Ainur, but not a Vala or Maia... However, is Tolkien said son, there's no point in discussing
When I say he is "separate," I mean that he is not Eru and he is not an Ainu. He is not considered part of the Ainur and he is not a part of Eru. He is the creation of the song stuff in the AinulindalÃ«.
Alright. But then is goldberry the same as Bombadil or something else (I'm guessing the only other thing she could be is a Maiar)
Yeah I wanted ask it too but forgot, who is the Goldberry? She's described as "daughter of the River" , does it mean she's a Maia?
I think that Goldberry is a similar phenomenon to Bombadil.
I say that Tom is Ainur, but either he is Valar or Maiar - that is the real question. Maybe he came to Arda as an observer. Valars created, Maiars were their helpers, Melkor destroyed... Maybe Tom was just an observer...
This is bugging me: the nouns are Ainu, Vala, and Maia. Their plural forms are Ainur, Valar and Maiar. I have never seen "Ainur" or the like used as an adjective. The proper way to say it is "Tom is an Ainu," et cetera.
Sorry for the rant.
But otherwise, Tom was in Arda "before the Dark Lord came." If Melkor was the first Ainu to enter EÃ¤(the Universe), then how can Tom be an Ainu?
If that is the case, maybe Goldberry and Tom Bombadil are Tolkiens versions of Adam and Eve, except they didn't piss god off.
I do not know how it is with Amon, but in Polish translation the form "Ainur" and "Maiar" was used as singular, and plural were "Ainurowie" and "Maiarowie". That is because of strange Polish grammar - declinations would be very difficult (or even impossible) to use on nouns ending with a vowel. So I guess the translator changed it, to make it possible to read... I promiss I will try not to use the wrong Slavic forms
I think that Tom is the essence of forest, and Goldberry the essence of water. Illuvatar made them and they tended the forests and rivers. I wouldn't be surprised if there were similar things for Caves, Mountains, Seas, etc.
But I have weird ideas like that
My idea is more far out than yours. You're saying the same thing as me, but that it's a smaller phenomenon. Not as big as Arda himself, but still rather important.
I'm bowing out of this discussion, because I'm honestly not over-familiar with Bombadil - it's been a while since I actually read FOTR, and of course he's not in the movie. I think I've read the Silmarillion more times than any of the Rings books.