Amph Beleriand Tales: The Discussion of the first age of the Middle Earth

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by Jacen-Vader, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. Raja_Io Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Current poll result:


    Just a strange old guy ~ 0 votes
    A Maia/Vala in disguise ~ 3 votes (Kypstatic, Amon, Nemesis)
    Iluvatar himself in disguise ~ 1 vote (Raja)
    Something - 2 votes (Obi-Zahn, Cobranaconda)


    So... Isn't he strange or isn't he old?
  2. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Like I've said before, he may just be an observer. Like when you play Counter Strike or Unreal Tournament, and you are just a spectator.
    Maybe he is just an Ainur... maybe Eru himself (--> he had said in LOTR that he cannot take the Ring becouse he doesn't mess into the affairs on Arda. Iluvatar never acted in time of Beleriand wars and such... [face_thinking] )...
  3. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    "There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers."
    The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien No 181, dated 1956

    Sorry, Eru Ilúvatar is out of the picture.

    "'Eldest, that's what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'"
    The Fellowship of the Ring I 7, In the House of Tom Bombadil

    Sorry, Tom isn't a Vala. The Valar all came after Melkor.

    "Now swiftly as they fared, Melko was there before them..."
    The Book of Lost Tales, Part I, III The Coming of the Valar and the Building of Valinor

    This quote supports the idea in the one above it that the Dark Lord is Melkor, not just Sauron. I understand that the Book of Lost Tales has a lot of material that Tolkien got rid of, but the presence of this in the "Dark Lord came from the Outside" seems like he kept it.

    "Then Tom put the Ring round the end of his little finger and held it up to the candlelight... There was no sign of Tom disappearing!"
    The Fellowship of the Ring I 7, In the House of Tom Bombadil

    Sorry, not a Maia. He's not affected at all. He just gives it back to Frodo like he doesn't care.

    Tom is not Eru, a Vala, a Maia, an Elf, a Man, a Dwarf, or anything.

    He must be something else.
  4. Raja_Io Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Obi-Zahn, you have killed my poll |:

    Thank you for the comprehensive summing up, though. Anyone has any idea for next discussion?
  5. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    What is your favourite race from the first age ie. Elves, Men, Dwarves, Dragons, Orcs, Balrogs, etc.

    Personally I like the Dwarves as a race the most (although my favorite characters come from Elves and men). I especially like how they weren't estranged from Elves in the First Age and were very hardy in fighting the great worms.

    I wish there was more information on them, especially of the races other than Durins (the Longbeards)
  6. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    What is your favourite race from the first age ie. Elves, Men, Dwarves, Dragons, Orcs, Balrogs, etc.

    Elves. Their appearance, philosophy, life style... they are just amazing.
  7. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    Elves are quite funny, although somewhat uptight, which I don't really like much. Dwarves are very cool, they make stuff, and have beards :p Men are generally all-arounders. That's the main ones summed up.

    And a bizarre theory for you: Maybe Tom is Melkor himself :p
  8. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    No, because IIRC it was stated that Tom was in Arda before the Dark Lord came
  9. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    Well, technically, Melkor was in Middle Earth before he was named Morgoth by the elves, the name by which he was known by since the elves named him it when he became the Dark Lord :p
  10. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Actually, he's the Witch-king of Angmar.
  11. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    I think its apt that the site is Tolkien Crackpot 8-}
  12. Raja_Io Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    I feel convinced. Really. 8-}


    But once again: who the Goldberry is?
  13. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
  14. Raja_Io Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Well, is that stated anywhere that Ungoliant died during the fall of Beleriand?
  15. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    I just think that Ungoliant is Shelob :p
  16. Raja_Io Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    [face_shame_on_you] Shelob is one of her offspring, I think it was stated both in Silmarillion and LOTR, although in LOTR Ungoliant is not mentioned by name.
  17. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    It was just assumed by Tolkien that she consumed herself in her hunger
  18. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    Meh, you expect me to be able to read every single word Raja? :p
  19. Raja_Io Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Actually... I do. But oh well, it is you, so maybe I will not be so demanding. But I see most people here have read the books, so I have someone to discuss them with anyway.




    :p
  20. Amon_Amarth Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    The best creature in the Tolkien's world is definitely Ungoliant. Though I am an arachnophob, she is my favourite monster ever. :D :-B :D
  21. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    Heh, arachnophobe :p

    [image=http://mywebpages.comcast.net/mithrandircq/images/Melkor-and-Ungoliant.jpg]

    hehe.

    My favourite creature is probably Smuag.

    Metalhead + Dragon = Works :p

  22. Raja_Io Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Another word you have not read? o_O
  23. Cobranaconda Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    What word?

    Smuag? Did I spell it wrong? :p
  24. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
  25. Raja_Io Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
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