Amph Beleriand Tales: The Discussion of the first age of the Middle Earth

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by Jacen-Vader, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. JediNemesis Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2003
    star 4
    Raja, I feel your pain :_|

    Yes, but Ancalagon the Black > Glaurung, for having a better name.
  2. Amon_Amarth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Glaurung is the best dragon. Ever.

    [image=http://www.faszination-tolkien.de/galerie/gondron/glaurung.jpg]

    Once more, creatures from The Silmarillion pwn creatures form The Hobbit or LOTR. Though Smaug is cunning and wicked in a cool, Tolkien-dragon way, Glaurung definately wouldn't let a Hobbit sneak into his cave. Beleriand creatures are far more powerful than those of Middle-Earth.
  3. Cobranaconda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    Glaurung = Perv.

    I mean, come on, he took pleasure in the incest that he'd caused :p
  4. Amon_Amarth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    If anyone is a perv, that that is Turin Turambar. Glaurung at leats wasn't a part of the incest. :p

    BTW, there is a song based on fate of Turin and Nienor Harvest of Sorrow by Blind Guardian. :)
  5. JediNemesis Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2003
    star 4
    Hey. Túrin didn't know. And he did kill himself when he realised what had happened.

    I think in this instance, Túrin and Nienor's incest is more to be regarded as a tragic accident than a crime. Neither of them knew that they were siblings and it all ended in tears anyway. [face_plain]
  6. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
  7. JediNemesis Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2003
    star 4
    I agreee. Hence the committing suicide.
  8. Raja_Io Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Glaurung is one of the best literature villains ever. See how he completely ruined Nienor and Turin's lives, with just a couple of words and looking into the eyes...

    Bit yes, he surely was a perv, since he found a pleasure in it. He could have just killed them.
  9. Cobranaconda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    I would post my first ever set of Tolkien-based lyrics here, but you ould rip me apart :p

    Put it this way: It's Turin and Nienor, with my sense of humour added :p
  10. Raja_Io Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Actually, I would gladly read it. But, I don't know why, not here... |:
  11. Zebra3 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2004
    star 5
    Knowing Cobra.... I am afraid [face_worried]

    I just finished reading The Silmarillion for the second time. It's a great book but I'm always bothered by how great the Elves are made out to be. The only way to do great things is to either be an elf, related to an elf or to be a friend of an elf. Why can't humans do great things on their own? [face_plain]

    That said, Ungoliant is very :cool:
  12. Cobranaconda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    Raja, I emailed them to you :p

    I think that the elves arrogance is amusing. Screw men :p
  13. Raja_Io Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    The only way to do great things is to either be an elf, related to an elf or to be a friend of an elf.

    [face_laugh]

    Yeah, really! That's why we're alone here now, so that we could avoid constant comparisons and not get inferiority complex.
  14. Zebra3 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2004
    star 5
    Yeah. Something like that :p

    Seriously though, it bothers me how Tolkien just keeps shoving the idea down our throats over and over :( It's one of those things that bug me about his writing.
  15. JediNemesis Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2003
    star 4
    Tolkien's Elves are a bit saintly. :p On the other hand, all of the Silmarillion's most interesting characters are human. I'd say the that the honourable Elvish exceptions are Fëanor, Maedhros, and Maeglin - all of whom have or have had problems, to say the least. QED. :p

    Also, the Elves just don't cut it on Middle-Earth. The ones who are still there by LOTR are the ones who are either relatively young (born in the Third Age or at the end of the Second) or who have lived there for so long they've come to the conclusion that the place would be overrun by Sauron without them. (This is possibly true.) But by and large, they don't function very happily in a world where everything else is mortal.

    IMO, Tolkien's point is that the Elves are a race apart. Maybe there's something in their genes that has "marked for great deeds" on it. But it's the very fact that they're powerful and wise and talented &c &c that completely screws them over once they get to Middle-Earth. They're often proud to the point of arrogance, in Fëanor's case ludicrously so, and among the senior Elves there's a lot of unpleasantness. (Winston Churchill said once that "if you're not a conservative at 40, you have no head". Imagine how conservative you get when you're 4000 years old). Thingol is a case in point. Elves get jealous (Daeron), moody (Maeglin), dictatorial (Turgon), cocksure (Celegorm), egotistic (Celegorm), devious (Curufin), over-confident (Dior - though he was half-human), treacherous (Maeglin again) and occasionally homicidal (Celegorm again).

    The few Elves who genuinely do seem to be flawless tend to die. Horribly. Fingolfin? Pulped by Morgoth. Finrod Felagund? Eaten by a werewolf.

    I would contend that the Elves, while clearly having a better class of destiny, also have a rather higher class of personality problem - at least in Middle Earth. They belong in Aman, where everything's happy, and, crucially IMO, immortal.

    Middle-Earth is the domain of men. LOTR ends with the last of the Elves going west-over-seas - the last enemy left over from Elvish days is vanquished and it's time for the human race to have a turn.
  16. Raja_Io Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    QFT.

    You left me with nothing more to add, Nemesis.
  17. Amon_Amarth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6

    True. [face_laugh] But we see humans every day. Humans are boring, elve aren't. :D
  18. Cobranaconda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
  19. Amon_Amarth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Hehe, true. [face_mischief] [Homer]Feänor. Mmmmm...[/H]
    :p
  20. Cobranaconda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
  21. Amon_Amarth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Which is your favourite character, Cobra? I see you drool over Luthien, but is there someone else?
  22. Cobranaconda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    I dunno, I've forgotten most of it :p
  23. Raja_Io Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
  24. severian28 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    Feanor is the greatest character in the entire Tolkien library, IMHO.
  25. JediNemesis Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 27, 2003
    star 4
    Great sig, severian ;)

    I have a few favourites. Maedhros, Maeglin, Beren, Túrin. Morgoth, of course - a superb villain simply out of sheer scale.
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