Amph Beleriand Tales: The Discussion of the first age of the Middle Earth

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by Jacen-Vader, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. severian28 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    Thanks:p . Aside from Feanor, I like Melkor/Morgoth, Maedhros, Ungoliant ( not really a deep characterization, but f'en cool ), and Aule. The actual story " The Silmarillion ", concerning Feanor, his powers, the ironic situation that the elves and the Valar find themselves in after exiling him, and the tragic exodus and curse - and how that tragedy permeates straight through until the fall of Sauron in RotK, is ( by far if you ask me ) Tolkiens' masterpiece.
  2. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    True, but Fingolfin is a much better elf - more valour and honour than Feanor.
  3. Amon_Amarth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Morgoth is best of the villains. The ultimate Dark Lord. Sauron, Palpatine, Marka Ragnos and Voldemort are hardly worthy enouth to clean Melkor's boots. I really like the way Tolkien described him and some of his thoughts.

    Anakin Skywalker is, in fact, Lucas' Feänor.
    ;)
  4. Cobranaconda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    I still think Turin is funny :p

    But I've now remembered who I think is the coolest character, I've just forgotten his name :p
  5. Kyptastic VIP

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    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    Maybe, but Feanor is never really redeemed before he travels to the halls of Mandos.
  6. Raja_Io Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Anakin is a poor takeoff of Feanor. I think I've already posted that in the other Tolkien thread.
  7. Amon_Amarth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    Yeah. He had no children to redeem him since all his sons had the same sin like him. :p
  8. Raja_Io Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Sure [face_laugh]

    And Nerdanel wasn't as silly devoted and blind as Padme.
  9. Zebra3 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2004
    star 5
    True dat Raja :)

    And also true Amon. I've always thought Tolkein had some missed opportunities for some great drama by having all of Feanor's sons follow him. Wouldn't it have been great if he had one rebellious son who resisted his father's madness. The angst! :D
  10. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    If he'd fully developed the Silmarillion, he might have just done that. But we basically get a skinned down version of what he probably was thinking.

    If only he'd live another five years or so.
  11. severian28 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5
    I think the Silmarillion is fine the way it is. The dilemmas of the novella are angst-ridden enough and it would translate exceptionally into film without much tweaking. It has two absolutely classic scenarios - that Feanor has the foresight to make the Silmarils from the trees, to the dismay of the Valar - until of course there are no more trees. Second being Feanors oath against Melkor and naming him Morgoth which leads to the only incidents of elves killing elves.
  12. Raja_Io Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    So, you judge the book's greatness by opportunities of the film adaptation? Quite sad. And I hope there will never be a "Silmarillion" movie [face_worried]
  13. severian28 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2004
    star 5



    Thats not true actually, since I thought the book was great before you were even born. I was just making the point that it would translate well into film - at least Quenta Silmarillia would.
  14. Zebra3 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2004
    star 5
    There are just too many different storylines going on in the book (the main quest, Beren & Luthien, Turin, Tuor, Doriath, etc....). It doesn't really have a tight plot. Sure there's the quest for the Silmarils but it takes the elves several hundred years to recover them. And let's face it, there's a good portion of the book where nothing of note really happens. So I don't think it would translate well onto film, a miniseries perhaps (but even then it would be tricky considering how all over the place the book is), but certainly not a feature film.
  15. Kyptastic VIP

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2005
    star 5
    No, not a film. A television series maybe but you cannot squash all of the Silmarrilion into a movie. For one thing, it is more of a history book than a narrative. Secondly, to try and adapt it for a three hour movie would be monstrous on the details of the book.

    One last thing. The Lord of the Rings translated to film so brilliantly, as well as being successful, because it gave you characters you could relate to. Th same thing would happen with The Hobbit, if it is ever produced. The Silmarrilion is about beings with much greater power and therefore it is harder for people to relate to. A lot more people are able to relate to Sam Gamgee than Fingolfin, High King of the Nolder.

  16. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    You said that very well. The Silmarillion is impossible to squish into a movie - elements of it, maybe, but it would be blasphemy to Tolkien's work to do so. I like Helge Fauskanger's idea to make a movie out of the Akallabêth. That would work beautifully, but the Silmarillion is too vast and complex a tale. A TV series or long miniseries would probably work for it, though.

    Your point in the second paragraph is equally powerful. The Silmarillion is full of grand tales and quests; the Lord of the Rings is about real people (Hobbits) stuck in a situation with the grand people, and dealing with it.
  17. Amon_Amarth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    I wouldn't want a changed Silmarillion. It would be just another 'usual' book. Written like this, like an anthology in a shape of a documentary has much bigger value. Silmarillion i snot about the characters, it is about something greater, about the history of Middle-Earth and all of its greatness.

    LOL, Padme wasn't an elf. ;)
  18. Lord_of_all_Noldor Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2005
    star 3
    Anakin as Feanor? You've got a point, I've never though about that and the two of them are indeed very similar. But I don't think Lucas took the idea from Tolkien becouse Silmarillion was out in 1977, same year as A New Hopw where Lucas mentioned Anakin for the first time.

    LOL, Padme wasn't an elf.

    When we speak of mutual things in Star Wars and in Silmarilion, do you think Anakin and Padme might be a parallel couple with Beren and Luthien? I find some similarities there too.
  19. Svebor Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2005
    star 1

    No, Lucas didn't take the idea from great Tolkien, but story of great individuals such as Feanor and Anakin is very common in the SF/F. And it is well known that Star wars and Tolkien's works are best pieces of SF/F.
    Story of Beren and Luthien as well as those of Anakin and Padme is romantic. Don't get me wrong, I hate mushy love stories, but these are not mushy. These are real tragedies combined with grateness of SF/F genre. Though I don't see the plot lines in their stories, both tales have some greatness in them, yes.

    Lord_of_all_Noldor; I have read your signature. Do you listen to a band called Blind Guardian? I heavily reccommend them to all who love Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion.
  20. Amon_Amarth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    When we speak of mutual things in Star Wars and in Silmarilion, do you think Anakin and Padme might be a parallel couple with Beren and Luthien? I find some similarities there too.

    Er, no. Though A&P combination is better that all sorts of love cR@p we see on the TV nowdays, it cannot be compared to the profundity and greatness of the Beren and Luthien's story. They were the happiest people on Arda in the time of gretest darkness. They didn't just whine about how the world is unfair and how their love is forbidden like Anakin and Padme, they didn't satisfy with keeping their love a secret; they took matters into their own hands. They went to Angband, the hell itself, and took a Simlaril from Morgoth's Iron Crown! From the crown of the greatest Dark Lords of all times! Now *that* is love in my book. The ultimate love story - not mushy, but powerful.

    I listen to Blind Guardian. :D Nightfall in Middle-Earth is the best album. Ever. /,,/
  21. Raja_Io Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Sure, I've already told you Anakin was a wimp. I'd never compare his and Padme's love story to Leithian. I'd write a rant, but I think Amon has explained it good enough :)

    And I like The Nightfall in Middle Earth too. Cause it's no metal :D
  22. Cobranaconda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2004
    star 7
    Tis Metal. Power Metal :p

    I need to get it, one day :p
  23. Raja_Io Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 28, 2005
    star 4
    Well, Blind Guardian in general is metal, yeah. But I don't find "Nightfall in Middle-Earth" metal enough to hate it :p
  24. Svebor Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2005
    star 1
    So true but I'm affraid it is rare nowdays.

    Amon_Amarth; I agree that NiME is one of the best albums ever.
    Raja_Io, of course NiME is metal. Have you listened to the whole album?
  25. Amon_Amarth Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2005
    star 6
    NIce to see people who actualy know what NiMe is. :)
    Which is your favourite song guys? Which part fits the book the most?
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