Best Cinematic Lightsaber Duel?

The Phantom Menace

Qui-Gon Jinn v. Darth Maul (Tatooine)
Qui-Gon Jinn and Obi-Wan Kenobi v. Darth Maul (Naboo, Theed Generator Complex)
Qui-Gon Jinn v. Darth Maul (Naboo, Theed Generator Complex)
Obi-Wan Kenobi v. Darth Maul (Naboo, Theed Generator Complex)

Attack of the Clones

Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker v. Count Dooku (Geonosis)
Anakin Skywalker v. Count Dooku (Geonosis)
Yoda v. Count Dooku (Geonosis)

Revenge of the Sith

Obi-Wan Kenobi and Anakin Skywalker v. Count Dooku (Invisible Hand, General's Quarters)
Anakin Skywalker v. Count Dooku (Invisible Hand, General's Quarters)
Obi-Wan Kenobi v. General Grievous (Utapau, Pau City)
Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar and Saesee Tiin v. Palpatine (Coruscant, Chancellor's Suite)
Mace Windu v. Palpatine (Coruscant, Chancellor's Suite)
Mace Windu v. Palpatine and Anakin Skywalker (Coruscant, Chancellor's Suite)
Yoda v. Palpatine (Coruscant, Senate Building)
Obi-Wan Kenobi v. Darth Vader (Mustafar)

A New Hope

Obi-Wan Kenobi v. Darth Vader (Death Star I)

The Empire Strikes Back

Luke Skywalker v. Darth Vader (Bespin, Cloud City)

Return of the Jedi

Luke Skywalker v. Darth Vader (Death Star II, Emperor's throne room)

I will have to say Obi-Wan/Vader II is the best simply because it was the first, and it set in motion the events that would make Luke the greatest Jedi ever.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that it's Empire's Luke v Vader. That was truly a battle. Luke starts off kind of cocky "you'll find I'm full of surprises" to being a battered handless wreck hanging off some pole over an abyss and learning the truth. I don't think (with the exception of RotJ) that any of the other duels came off as that raw or desperate a battle. And Vader was just so cool in this one.

 

I love how you specified things like where the ANH duel took place. So utterly pointless.

The only duel in the saga that I have zero problems with is Vader vs. Luke in ESB, it's just so perfect.

 

anything with Darth Maul is going to be in a different class from purely a choreography standpoint, any fan of good hong kong martial arts movies could tell you that. i dont care if Ewan or Hayden trained for months non stop, you can see the difference in Ray Park. a lifetime of training in a martial artist is something that cant be CGd or duplicated. not only that, but his immense skill makes his opponents look twice as good as they are. a fight scene is more like a dance number than actual fighting.

if you are talking about the length of the fight, or if the actual characters involved make a difference to you, or the emotional weight of the fight in relation to storyline(i saw someone mention the Luke/Vader from ESB)then its purely a matter of what tugs your heartstrings i would guess.

my favorite was the Vader/Luke at the end of ROTJ(my best movie=) but as i said in the first section Ray Park is next level with no exceptions...i dont even like Darth Maul

 

The best choreography is in Duel of Fates in TPM, no doubt.
The most emotional impact is in ROTJ, Vader/Luke duel.
But i think the best overall battle, (choreography, direction, emotion, photography, sets, music) is Battle of Heroes in ROTS.

 

Emotionally, Luke Vs. Vader in ROTJ, especially when Luke's rage gets the better of him and the music is fantastic.

Darth Maul in TPM for the best visually.

 

Without a doubt, the fight in Episode V, then the one in Episode VI. Sure, they didn't have lightning fast moves or crazy flips, but they were more intense because they were less mindless action and more suspenseful... you actually cared about the characters and what was going to happen. Rather than focus on fancy moves, they focused on the characters' drama... which made things a lot more interesting.

I for one, think the prequels went a little over the top in many ways. Sure, Darth Maul had two sabers and did a lot of flips and stuff, but he totally lacked the grativas Darth Vader showed in Episode V. There were a lot more ships and explosions in Episode III's space battle, but it is no where near as exciting as the Battle of Yavin (which is probably one of the most exciting movie scenes ever). While Star Wars is far from real, at least the originals made good use of sespension of disbelief and convinced the average viewer it could be real. The prequels on the other hand felt more like a cartoon with actors in it, and not like a real drama with real people, partially because the direction and acting as abysmal, and partly because George really went overboard with just about everything.

In a lot of action movies today, you'll see people doing all sorts of fancy martial arts moves that look really cool, but are pretty pointless in a fight, and the prequels fall victum to that. I know this from experince as a black belt in Tae Kwon Do, you will use a lot of cool looking moves in forms \ katas \ etc, but when you actually spar, you're going to use moves that are well... useful. Ones that might not look too fancy, but they work a lot better.

One of my least favorite fights was the Obi-Wan vs. Anakin fight in Episode III... not only did it get just plain silly (standing on top of the droids in the lava and randomly swinging across ropes for no reason are just two examples) there were about two lines of (very bad) dialogue between Anikin and Obi-Wan. What should have been one of the most emotional fights in the series wasn't... it was just as mechanical and inhuman as the rest of the PT. Sometimes I wonder if George really is more machine than man.

Of course, while I have dissed the PT a lot in this thread, I'll give it a little praise too. I really like the battle in AOTC with Yoda and Dooku, mostly because I'd been waiting to see Yoda fight for a long time, and it was a great surprise to see the old guy flip around as he did. A like little touch was how he grabbed his cane and started walking like an old man again after. =)

I also liked the fight between Yoda and the Emperor in ROTS, mostly because I had wanted to see the two of them fight since I was a little kid. While Yoda fighting might be a bit of a novelty, it's a fun one.

 

Wow. That sarcasm and rudeness is what's pointless. The locations are actually an intrinsic part of each duel.

The popular consensus is the lone duel of Episode V, and I'll go with that. The surrounding duels of the original trilogy (i.e. the single duels in Episodes IV and VI that precede and follow the one in Episode V) almost function as a prologue and epilogue respectively. That's not to say they aren't hugely iconic and hugely important in their own right, but that they seem to have more of a contextualising function when played off against the magnificent middle chapter.

I could literally put anything in second place. When you look at each of the duels as objectively as possible, I think it's a tremendous credit to Lucas that they're all vital and distinct in their own right. I would probably put Luke's final onslaught against Vader in ROTJ as the one sustained passage in any duel that stuns me, but after that, the floor is open to the prequel trilogy. It is so hard for me to choose between the jaw-dropping scale and clever philosophy imbued in the latter duel of Episode I and the climatic duels of Episode III. I guess I could choose the middle duel of the middle chapter for safety: Anakin Skywalker v. Count Dooku. This has one of the best moments in the saga; it's when Anakin cuts the cable and puts himself and Dooku in darkness, with only the glow of their sabers illuminating their features. This part is incredibly balletic; every time it comes on, I watch it with bated breath.

 

great post...Theta also mentioned how alot of the PT stuff was over the top(Obi/Anakin example) and i agree, that fight was rediculous. but Anakin/Dooku in ROTS i love. it reminds me of Vader/Luke in ROTJ in alot of ways. when Dooku tells him hes not using his anger and he just cuts loose, its great. its not over the top, no one is doing cartwheels or jumping off walls, but you feel the emotion of the scene change when anakin starts using his anger, its great. i love the purely sidescrolling view also, like it was made to be put on a poster.

 

they are all good but i would say that esb wins by a short head against battle of the heroies

 

ESB Vader/Luke duel is best cinematically in my view - Vader: darkly cool and skilled vs Luke the untested but promising wannabe Jedi.

Even after all the Vader is slow due to SPFX deficiencies/should've been faster cause Grevious could do it argument,that duel has all the suspense and that ultimate line -

"No..I am your Father"

Then the three year wait to find out what happens next(for those that saw the OT on theatrical release in the 1980's.

 

If ROTJ's duel at the end wasn't the best than I don't understand how people can love Star Wars so much. That duel is the culminaton of all the themes of Star Wars. Luke battling Anakin. The two main characters letting go their feelings in a completly believable and moving moment. ROTJ is a great picture thanks to this duel. It doesn't have the best action or even the best lighting, but it IS Star Wars. To the fullest extent. This is what Star Wars is all about. Cinema at its finest. The greatness of this duel is remarkable.

 

I like ESB's duel best because it isn't just a duel but an actual scene. Instead of just meeting and locking swords for 15 minutes, Luke and Vader play a cat and mouse game, and the suspense just keeps building as it becomes apparent that Luke is getting beaten. Then, at the moment when in any other movie the hero should come back and snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, Luke instead is physically crippled and emotionally battered. Brilliant!

 

I'd say the best is ESB Luke vs Vader. It shows the tragedy part in the film, where Luke our hero believes he's good enough to defeat all evil when he's left with one hand, bloody and battered, screaming and crying while holding onto a ledged pole hundreds of miles above anything. ESB is also the main Vader movie where you see what a badass he actually is.

Second best would be TPM with Maul vs Obi Wan and Qui Gon. It's the first SW movie in about 20 years, and it's totally remastered. The duel is epic, we see the first new sith lord besides Vader and The Emporer, the introduction of the double bladed saber, intense choreography and two versus one. This was all new to the SW films, so it was pretty spectacular.

But obviously ESB pwns all.

 

Dang, I forgot about that fight in ROTS for a minute. Yeah, that one is pretty good, although it doesn't strike me as particulary memorable. What's really cool about is is how it's almost exactly like the fight in ROTJ, Emperor and all, and is almost like some wierd alternate universe take on it, given that Luke had listened to the Emperor and decided to kill Vader. Whether its clever or lazy to repeat scenes is all up to your certain point of view. =p

One thing that does really bug me about it, (and most of the duels in II and III) is sometimes the actors will be arbitarily replaced with CG models, say when someone does a super jump or gets thrown. It really takes you out of the movie when stuff like that happens. George just went really overboard with the CG... it would have been a much better scene if the only CG elements were the space battle background and the rotoscoped lightsaber blades. Although I suppose this is more nitpicky than anything else.

Awesome post, you pretty much summed that up exactly right. Almost every fight, with the exception of the ones in V and VI (with maybe one or two in ROTS that I forgot, there's like 5 of them) are pretty much "Hey, I'm a Jedi." "Hey, I'm a Sith. Grrr, let's fight." "Okay, I'm fighting you now." As you said, it's great because it's more than just a fight.

 

Tos up between Darth Maul vs. Qui-Gon and Obi-wan; and Obi-wan versus Vader on Mustafar. The one on Mustafar had more emotion I suppose so it was faster and more potent and entertaining.

 

My best: Luke vs Vader 1
2nd: Luke vs Vader 2
Then ROTS Old Ben Kenobi vs Anakin Skywalker
and finally TPM Naboo the whole darth maul fight

 

Ray Park isn't really all that good at martial arts weaponry. As a fan of martial arts movies, there are a lot of completely unknown actors that would wipe the floor with Ray Park. Ray Park is not a martial arts god, not even close. He is decent, but thats it. He only looked good because of the alternatives presented in the movie. Wonder what would have happened if GL had cast Chow Yun Fat, Sonny Chiba, Sammo Hung, or Bolo Yeung as Qui Gonn Jinn, instead of Liam Neeson...then see how good Ray Park would have looked in comparision.

 

I don't care what anyone says, I still loved the Mustafar duel in Episode III. It was emotionally charged, it was well-choreographed, and it made very good use of the environment around them. As long as I have known that there was going to be prequels for the Star Wars movies, this was the moment I had been waiting for all these years. And as far as I am concerned, it payed off.

 

i am guessing he wood have looked even better, movie fight scenes are a dance, and the better your partner is the better you look as well as i stated above, all those great hong kong action stars who you seem to have a thing for, only look as good as they do cus they have entire stunt teams play the "cannon fodder" bad guys, taking a good fall is more important to the quality of a scene than ending your attack with a fancy stance. but you already know that as a fan of martial arts movies. i am sure Lucas brought in a guy who was not going to have his voice used in the movie or even a scene with any real dialogue, because he is so amazingly average in a fight scene. and please if you are going to name completely unknowns, try doing that, instead of naming actors who qualify as B rate even in the hong kong martial arts scene. Sonny Chiba movies are difficult to sit thru, comparing him to a good hong kong showman is like saying Van Damm is a good actor, his movies are just bad. Sammo couldnt fit in a jedi costume. Bolo Yeung was in bloodsport for goodness sake, we have all seen that, i know hes been in better stuff, but you could have gone to the vault and found some real examples. and as much as i love Chow, even dropping his name is just off, sure hes been in a few kung fu flicks, but hes more of a chinese Bruce Willis.

i agree Ray Park isnt god, but hes really talented, just cus you have a fetish for asian actors doesnt mean hes not

 

Sonny Chiba's are some of my favorite cheesy choppy-socky flicks, but Ray Park looks much better than him on-screen. That's a part of the allure of Wushu, it looks awesome and makes for great choreography. Although, Chiba would kill Parks in a dark alley brawl. Chiba is the real deal, although his movies look very dated compared to modern films. As for Star Wars, it is a bit unfair to compare Ray Park's choreography to Ewan McGregor's, but Anakin in ROTS looked almost as good in some places.

 

you are correct sir, as i stated, its this common misconception that movie fights have anything to do with real combat, sonny was a bad mo fo =D but your description of cheesy is complimentary. his movies were laughable. its like the difference between bruce lee, and jet lee, in real life bruce was a killer, but jets movies look 5000% cooler, because its wu shu like you said, its a dance. also i thought all the actors in the PT did a great job with the sabers, you are rite its not even fair to compare chris lee or hayden to ray park

i recall the initial post being best lightsaber duel, not who would win in an alley brawl =P

 

My basic issue is that Ray Park is a martial arts dancer. Jean Claude Van Damme fits into that catagory as well. He looks great on film, but at the same time, any halfway competent true martial artist would kick his ass. When you saw Bruce Lee on film, you just knew he was the best. When you saw Chuck Norris, you knew he was the real deal. When you see Van Damme, you see, good dancer, looks good on film, but, wouldn't last a minute against a real fighter. I see the same thing with Ray Park, which is why I poopoo his martial dance moves as being hardcore martial arts, thus, I can't give his brief moment of glory on Naboo as much credit as some others are.

I do disagree about Jet Li's moves looking cooler. If you ask me, they look fake. Bruce Lee never needed wires. Bruce Lee never relied on CGI to make his fight scenes look dramatic. His fight with Chuck Norris in Return of the Dragon is more satisfying to watch cinematically than anything I have seen Jet Li do, because its legit. No special effects needed. Ray Park lacks that element. Just because a guy does flips and whatnot doesn't make them a great martial artist, it just makes them a great gymnast.

 

Yeah, I think that's totally true. When Bruce Lee and Chuck Norris fought in Rome it was freakin' brutal. And it was actually fairly realistic. And IMO that kind of fight is a lot more interesting. Instead of everying randomly flipping around at high speeds, there's actually a sense of tension and actual danger.

Darth Maul really is kind of over rated, and people love him for really shallow reasons. He's really just very gimmicky... he has a double-bladed saber, he looks cool, and he does fancy dance moves. But you know, when it comes to personality, character, or well, anything deeper than a double-saber and fancy moves... um... yeah, he's sorely lacking. He's just like Sephiroth from Final Fantasy VII... people love him for shallow reasons and because he has cool gimmicks, because beyond that, he's really a crappy character. (Kefka FTW BTW ;p)

While the fights in the OT aren't that realistic (people spinning around and not getting killed, sometimes aiming for the blade and not the swordsman, etc) they're a lot more believable than pretty much anything in the PT. Granted, no Star Wars film is any close to realistic, but at least sometimes they can trick you into thinking "maybe that could be real".

With Ray Park and the rest of the crew flipping around as much as they do, it falls into "Prequel-over the top syndrome". It kills the suspension of disbelief, and it almost feels like its a cartoon. Granted, I love cartoons, but in Star Wars, I think a live action cartoon doesn't seem to work as well (although Kung Fu Hustle was entertaining as it took cartoony over-the-topness to the extreme and was like a live action Looney Tunes episode)

I really think none of the PT battles are close to being as dramatic as the OT ones. The Anakin vs. Obi-Wan battle really, really tried hard to be the most dramatic battle ever seen on screen, and because of that it fell on its face.

Ok, /endrant

 

Thats basically what I was getting at. Maul is all style, with very little substance. He looks great, the red and black tattoos with the horns make him look very demonic, and since everyone else has a single saber, his double saber looks stylish, and he does fancy flips and stuff...But, thats all on the surface. His character has absolutely no depth.

For sheer emotional content, my favorite duel is the DSII Luke/Vader fight. Maybe not quite as intricate as the ESB fight, but, with the John Williams score, and taking into account what the fight symbolizes, for me, its the most potent.