main
side
curve
  1. Welcome to the new boards! Details here!

CT Better Pilot, Vader or Han ????

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Master Endz-One, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. DealAlterer

    DealAlterer Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2012
    I mean... Vader has the force.

    But at the same time Han was crafty enough to get the jump on him in ANH.

    Meditate on this, I will [face_thinking]
     
    Sarge likes this.
  2. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    And I suggest you watch Grievous' battles with Obi-wan, Eeth Koth, Kit Fisto and Nahdar Vebb where he cannot beat them in battle without help or using a hold out blaster.

    Anakin was being arrogant and was fueled by his rage. That's why he made the jump despite the danger and the warning.

    Anakin had slacked off on his training which is why he lost to Dooku.

    The Jedi can be overwhelmed by overwhelming numbers, which is why Order 66 worked. That and there was danger everywhere. But it wasn't a complete success which is why Yoda, Kanan and Ahsoka survived the initial attacks. And subsequently is why Vader, the Inquisitors, the Stormtroopers and Bounty Hunters went after the survivors.
     
  3. Azure_Angelus

    Azure_Angelus Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Sep 13, 2008
    Kenobi has been out of the loop for 20 years, how would he know who the current best pilot is? I used to follow basketball, now I don't think I could tell you more than 5 current players.
     
  4. Master Endz-One

    Master Endz-One Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2017


    I made a point that a non force user can out duel, be a better Pilot and do other things better than a Jedi. I made a point that Grevious did it and someone replied Grevious couldn't out duel a Jedi without using blasters, I showed you a video proving my point, I never said Grevious was the better all Jedi.

    Not all Jedi and Sith are better Pilots and duelist than non force users. The force gives them an edge, but doesn't mean force users are better than all non force users.


    As far as Jedi seeing 2 seconds ahead of time, it's just not true. Jedi reflexes are faster than non force users and they can do amazing things, but doesn't mean they can defeat any non for user in a space Battle or in land combat.

    If you're saying they can see 2 seconds in the future, during order 66 more Jedi could have survived using force speed and force jump. Of course they were overwhelmed, but if they could see 2 seconds ahead more would have escaped.
     
  5. SateleNovelist11

    SateleNovelist11 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 10, 2015
    We should depict them racing in a video game.
     
  6. Horror_Express

    Horror_Express Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Apr 19, 2002
    This is a hard question to wrestle with, and I think the Force definitely is the deciding factor if we consider the Saga as whole. PT Anakin is a greater pilot than CT Han. If we consider just the CT, then I will humbly opine that Han is demonstrated to be the better pilot than CT Darth Vader, but not by much.

    Along similar lines to SateleNovelist11's idea above, I think there could be benefit in running a computer simulation, if some sensible metrics could be found for input.
     
  7. DARTHLINK

    DARTHLINK Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Because if you’re not expecting an attack/general movement from above, you’re gonna be jumped, Force-user or not. Look at how Obi-Wan reacted to Anakin’s sudden jumping into the elevator during ROTS; he mistook him for a second as an enemy and ignited his lightsaber before saying, “Oh, it’s you,” in sheepish realization. And that’s just during a quiet moment with Obi-Wan in an elevator. Obi-Wan, mind you, who is one of the top tier Force users in the galaxy, got jumped by his own apprentice by accident. Even the Force wasn’t enough to inform him that his apprentice was banging about just outside the elevator and was about to drop back in.

    Vader is in the middle of a pitched battle, all his attention is focused on the Rebel pilot he has centered and fixed in his sight...he’s about to pull the trigger that will blast said pilot into smithereens. As far as he knows, is aware, is concerned, he has won this day. The Rebellion is crushed.

    And then there’s this guy barreling in from above, at the last possible minute firing on him.

    In short: why would you be cautious toward anything above your head, if you don’t think there’s anything up there worth worrying about?
     
    Sarge likes this.
  8. EntechednReformatted

    EntechednReformatted Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2009
    They're obviously both very good pilots, but I don't think we have much of a basis to compare them.

    And when Obi-Wan told Luke his father was the best starpilot in the galaxy, I don't think even Luke took that literally. Obi-Wan was reminiscing about an old war buddy. Hyperbole would be assumed, I think.

    Or else someday this must have happened ...

    Luke: <looks through old Jedi archive records, finds list of all of the times Anakin crashed a ship> "That's not true! That's IMPOSSIBLE!"

    Luke: <Finds out about Saesee Tiin> "Ben! Why didn't you TELL me?"
     
    BookExogorth and Sarge like this.
  9. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    psssh

    he piloted podracers , come on
     
  10. EntechednReformatted

    EntechednReformatted Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Oct 17, 2009
    So did this guy:
    [​IMG]

    And if the argument is that some alien species are just inherently better pilots than humans, I've gotta wonder why those species don't dominate the ranks of elite starfighter squadrons.

    Beyond the specific Han/Vader question, my feeling is, you gotta give a specialist their due. Luke was a great pilot. But for every minute that Luke spent practicing his piloting skills, Wedge spent a minute practicing his piloting skills. And every minute that Luke spent in lightsaber training, Wedge spent a minute practicing his piloting skills. And every minute that Luke spent practicing levitating rocks, Wedge spent a minute practicing his piloting skills. Flight time counts. That's how you get a guy like Poe Dameron ... extreme talent plus extreme dedication to his profession.

    One last thought, I don't really even think there IS such a thing as "the best starpilot in the galaxy." Piloting is a skill, which means that any individual can perform well, or poorly, and often both in quick succession. I've seen touchdown passes that made me think the game was just special effects, because no way a human could do that ... followed five minutes later by the most boneheaded-seeming interception. You can make a list of elite quarterbacks, but the arguments about the GOAT is just an exercise in subjectivity. Same thing with pilots (or swordsmen, or whatever) in Star Wars.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  11. JEDI-RISING

    JEDI-RISING Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 15, 2005
    i don't recall that guy piloting very far
     
  12. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Lucas didn't consider Grievous a great fighter. That's why in the films and TCW, he wasn't. He was always needing help or running. The micro series, which is non canon, goes against that. Ergo, Grievous could never outfight a Jedi on his own. And in terms of piloting, only a human with the Force as his ally can do it. Those are established in the films and in the animated series.

    More than most. Obi-wan and Maul both defeated Tor Vizsla in a saber duel. Grievous needed help against the Jedi he fought.

    That's why there were Clonetroopers waiting at the Temple after activating the emergency beacon and why the Empire had to hunt down the stragglers, once the code's change was discovered. Many Jedi did die, but not all of them.

    No, the argument is that the podracers were better adept at flying pods if they were alien as opposed to being a human. That doesn't necessarily mean that those same pilots would be better at flying starships or star fighters. They would probably be the same as humans. Meaning that Sebulba in an X-Wing is the same as Han Solo in an X-Wing, but Sebulba has a better advantage in a pod than Han would.
     
  13. Steve McGarrett

    Steve McGarrett Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 1, 2017
    I bet Han would be better at backing a trailer.
     
    Sarge likes this.
  14. Zer0

    Zer0 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    I'd have to give it to Vader, personally.
     
    ObiWanKnowsMe likes this.
  15. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Han probably had a midichlorian count "higher than usual for a non-Force Sensitive guy", plus thousands of hours of flying practice in dangerous situations
    better than any Rebel/Imperial pilot, but still no match for Vader or a Jedi/Sith pilot
     
  16. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Where is that coming from?
     
  17. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Taking a logical guess based on TPM's midichlorians canon
     
  18. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Speculation, although its reasonable considering after TLJ we now know
    that anyone regardless of bloodlines can become powerful in the force.
     
  19. MoffJacob

    MoffJacob Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Dec 25, 2015
    Yeah. I actually like the midichlorians concept: it helps to explain why some bloodlines are always powerful in the Force, while other individuals seem to be chosen to become force-sensitive : Anakin, Rey, etc
    My guess is that other people have enough midichlorians to become very skilled: Han, Poe?, but not powerful enough to modidy their surroundings/other minds
     
  20. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Not necessarily. A particular bloodline can generate a strong line of Force users, that is true. Yet it was also established that non Jedi families can produce Jedi offspring that are strong in the Force. Obi-wan himself was fairly strong in the Force, same with Mace Windu. Meanwhile, Maul and Savage were both siblings who were strong in the Force and the offspring of Mother Talzin. TLJ didn't introduce anything new that wasn't already there under Lucas. The Force may have manipulated Rey's Midichlorian count to make her strong enough to oppose Ben and Snoke, without her being the Chosen One.
     
  21. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    I recall the D6 SW RPG had Solo as best, Vader next and tied with Chewie, and Luke slightly behind them. Keep in mind they also had Vader more powerful than Luke in ROTJ with I disagree with.
     
  22. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2015
    Vader was the best starpilot in the galaxy.
     
    Darkslayer likes this.
  23. Darkslayer

    Darkslayer Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Vader has the Force, so I'm going with Vader.
     
  24. Jedi Knight Fett

    Jedi Knight Fett Host, PT Interview Thread star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2014
    Anakin/Vader
     
  25. Sara_Kenobi

    Sara_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2000
    I'd choose Vader. He had the Force and Han, well, didn't.