CT Better Pilot, Vader or Han ????

Is it established that we are only seeing Yavinshine reflected on the Death star. The Falcon coming out of the sun, attacking the lit side of the station suggests not.

 

I think it's safe to say (since one side is bright grey and the other is dull grey) that the two sources of light are closer in brightness than Earth and the Sun are - otherwise the "dark side" of the Death Star would be much darker.

Thus, it's plausible that one source of illumination is Yavin's star, and the other is Yavin itself.

 

I believe, that Anakin/Vader - the best pilot in galaxy, under than even after his death he not lost this status. He is by nature a gifted pilot and he has the Force, so that a simple pilot does not compete with him. Even Luke, the guy who could fly, who had the Force and was the son of the best pilot, still didn't fly like his father. So... Anakin/Vader is the best pilot of the GFFA. Han is as far away from him as on foot from Coruscant to Tatooine.

 

Han was only lucky that he took Vader by surprise when he was focusing on shooting Luke down. If Vader had the opportunity to unleash his wrath upon Han, it would have been a sight to behold.

 

Plus of course Han doesn't actually hit Vader, he takes out one of his wingmen and the other wingman panics and hits into Vaders ship.

 

The record that has come down does not give enough evidence for a definitive judgement.

Han at his peak in ESB pulls off evasive maneuvers in a large vehicle. He can evade and avoid fast moving obstacles in a high speed chase with a vehicle 2-3 times the cross section of his pursuers.

The evidence presented for Anakin is largely from TPM. Some small craft piloting occurs in AOTC and ROTS, but there is more than a small amount of showmanship, so it is hard to discriminate what is the essential skill. The crash landing of the broken up cruiser can possibly be a skill that Han does not possess, and we will never get to see Han do anything analogous.

Too much of the accolade surrounding Anakin's piloting skills come from hearsay. Obi-Wan of course glows that he was the best star pilot in the galaxy. (What if he technically was not, and Obi-Wan's memories of fond times are a bit rose colored.) Qui-Gon reports that young Anakin has great reflexes, a Jedi trait. What if having great reflexes, a Jedi trait, and even other assorted Jedi traits that are conducive to piloting, do not by themselves guaranty that that individual is the best pilot.

One can look at Obi-Wan's assessment of Anakin's sword technique during the prime of their relationship:

This says a lot about this question. Anakin was clearly a hot dog. He could pull off incredible feats. Does that make him the best in class in every class of challenge? No. At least according to Obi-Wan in his prime, no rose colored glasses, Anakin was NOT best in class in every class. So there is no reason to assume that just because post-prime Obi-Wan looks back fondly and assigns that he was the best star pilot in the galaxy, that he ever was in fact the best star pilot in the galaxy.

What evidence does exist on the ground is that ESB Han pulled off maneuvers that the record does not have analogues for by Anakin, whether TPM age, AOTC age, ROTS age, or OT age. TPM Anakin is able to perform feats that humans cannot. That does not make him best pilot. There is also the consideration that since Anakin becomes more machine than man, his best piloting days, on a good day, are behind him once he is in the suit. So, Vader in his special TIE in SW77 does not really have a lot to work with. He gets his job done, and he survives a collision and massive explosion by some means, but there is no really excellent footage of him being a 'great pilot'. He's got backup singers, for that matter. ESB Han holds it down, no backup singers.

Here, then, is another award to be pinned on ESB: It presents best showing of piloting skills of any kind in any of Lucas era SW. It is superior to Lando's efforts in ROTJ. Lando did not have fast moving orthogonal obstacles. It is superior for the same reason to any Rebel pilot's efforts in SW77.

If anyone could challenge ESB Han it would be Obi-Wan from the asteroid duel with Jango Fett. But that was more cat and mouse, and a matter of patience, sensing and footwork.

Those who need to honor Disney era footage as evidence of anything might suggest that Vader's showing in Rogue One is evidence that Vader's capability in a class (melee, here) is not hindered by being more machine than man. And so, the argument would go, one ought not to dismiss Vader's capability in the class of piloting. Understood. We simply do not get any evidence of such in any of RO, SW77, ESB, ROTJ, of an analogous intensity to the ending scene of RO.

 

I would argue that whilst Han is shown as skilled what really sets him apart is cunning, attacking Vader from above coming out of the sun and using the asteroids to hide from Ties that destroy themselves following too aggressively.

 

Vader is a better pilot, but Han looks cooler while doing it.

 

"Better pilot" is a very vague term. There are many different aspects of piloting skills, and every pilot has different strengths and weaknesses. Some have precision, some have grace, some have coordination, some have creativity. Some are good with small craft, some are better in big ships. From what we've seen on screen, Vader and Han have different qualities as pilots. Each is superior to the other in some ways, not in others.

 

Two things occurred to me.

OT VFX cinematography looks more real because it's actual physical models, and the cameras that the VFX crew gave computer commands to physically tracked, dollied, slewed, rotated around the physical model, etc. So there is a verisimilitude of animated soul to the ship that the eye wants to lend to Han just because of the verisimilitude of the practical models. Anakin does not get to benefit from that because the eye is never fooled that the more / most aggressive maneuvers / actions ever existed in the form of a physical VFX model that is being lit by real photons and captured by a real lens.

The greatest magnitude of feat by Anakin is the landing of the broken cruiser. I could only hope that that is not the submission of evidence that Lucas thought would demonstrate Obi-Wan's claim in SW77 that Anakin was the best star pilot in the galaxy. I interpreted that entire sequence to be a little too cheesy serial self-aware. Having Palpatine, an old man, get jerked around by a rope in an elevator shaft? That's pretty Flash Gordon. So it is hard to take, as with verisimilitude, what Anakin does when landing a CGI broken up cruiser.

Over on the Han side, Han executes Holdo Maneuver XVII of feinting an attack on a Star Destroyer bridge and then abruptly, somehow, hitching a ride in their blind spot and shutting down in one smooth transition. (Holdo was the first to do every maneuver that ever occurred in GFFA, so all these maneuvers are numbered. Whatever she did in TLJ is actually Holdo Maneuver No. MMXVII.) The theatrical film is a primary source. You have to believe it happened. It's not a secondary source like Obi-Wan's fond memories. If the film breaks suspension of disbelief, well, then, that's a problem. Everyone's threshold is different. But that maneuver is the sharpest and quickest, in terms of instantaneous acceleration, of any in PT or OT. Larger than Anakin landing a broken cruiser.

In the days of yore, before the dark times, Han's feat of the Kessel Run had an EU solution that involved flying close to a cluster of black holes. This promising spectre was given a Marvel treatment under Disney's watch, such that there is no visceral conviction that what you just saw actually happened, as opposed to some comfortable people in rolling chairs and a single-use plastic cup of iced coffee with a single-use plastic straw were mouse clicking a bunch mesh vectors.

The question of cunning is probably its own thread. I Want To Believe that Vader had deep cunning at the level of Tarkin and Palpatine. But he still harbored an idealism from his younger adulthood. He does sit on Lando to effect a suitable trap. (This again is another case where it would be really useful to have constraints on how much time Han/Leia/Falcon were en route from Anoat to Bespin.) He does alter the deal with Lando at a time and place of his choosing. He voices his subordinate opinion to Tarkin that "She may yet be of some use to us." His cunning sort of peters out by the end of ESB, where his best offer to Luke is refused. So his cunning is eclipsed or encompassed by the Emperor's. That is consistent with the PT student-mentor relationship.

 

The impressive thing is Han does all this without the Force.

 

Han

Obi-WAN would have said Kaminoans were two headed rhodians in ANH. All with that "you can't really trust me" glint in his eye

 

I was just scared that Vader was going to succeed when I was a little kid upon my initial viewing. I was glad that Han showed up when he did.

 

Vader.

 

Who can stand against such reasoning.

 

Yeah. Vader is better IMO but they’re both outstanding. Vader has skill aided with Force assistance, whereas Han has skill aided with a crazy improvisational adrenaline.

 

Han.

 

My choice of the OT, he took on the Empire and even got the jump on Darth Vader.

 

That's a good question! They are both excellent pilots, but I have to say I think Han is the better pilot. Not by much though.

 

I remember reading a John Williams interview and he spoke of the Asteroid theme and wanting to convey Han's wizardry in the cockpit. That could describe them both.

 

They are different type of pilots. It's hard to compare. But Vader is still better.

 

In the OT, Han is shown to be the best. Han does most of the Piloting, despite Luke being an excellent Force Using Pilot. Under life and death situations, I think you go with the best Pilot

 

Han is better at flying and quipping. Although if you look at it from a historical timeline Han is stealing Anakin's lines. Here's where the fun begins...

 

In ROTS when Anakin pushes off the buzz droids from Obi Wan's ship, Obi Wan thought it was a crazy thing to do that would end up getting them both killed. It requires great precision; a bit off and it would effectively be a shipcrash. But Anakin managed to get most of them off. When one buzz droid got onto Anakin's ship, Obi Wan didn't dare try the same trick.
This same Obi Wan, years ago, did not hesitate to follow Jango into an asteroid field. He did get stressed during the asteroid duel, but he actually managed pretty well.
Admittedly, the Millenium Falcon is bigger than Obi Wan's ship, thus more difficult to manouver through an asteroid field. But Obi Wan did so well that time, and after a few years of fighting in the Clone Wars, he probably improved even more. I think it's totally possible that Obi Wan by ROTS was capable of what Han did in ESB.