Big Bang vs Creation

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by SaberGiiett7, Jul 30, 2002.

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  1. SaberGiiett7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 6
    Self explanitory.Explain why you agree with one or the other.Why one or another is true using facts.

    See last post.
  2. Frank Slade Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1998
    star 2
    I'll add a little bit more to Saber's intro - what we're looking for on this thread is a discussion with regard to the Big Bang, or other physical theories of the universe, in contrast to Biblical accounts that the universe was created spontaneously in its current form. This is intended to lighten the load on the evolution thread, so please no references to the fossil record or things like that. We're interested purely in the origin of inert, non-living matter.
  3. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    Interesting. What if one views the Big Bang as Creation? What then?
  4. stevo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 4
    I don't believe in creation, but I don't totally believe in the Big Bang. The Big Bang theory is exatally that, a theory subject to change. It just seems too much of a contradiction to believe God created the universe, and I believe that in life, there are no contradictions.
  5. DarthPhelps Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    God creating the universe contradicts what, exactly? I fear that wasn't clear in your post.



    ...a discussion with regard to the Big Bang, or other physical theories of the universe, in contrast to Biblical accounts...

    It sounds here like you want various theories aside from the Creation one. Is that so?

    Regarding the initial post: it's been mentioned time and again here that you cannot prove religious beliefs with scientific fact. I can see then if you want to discuss various scientific theories regarding the origin of the universe, but if you are trying to pit that against Creation theory, it's just going to be an ugly mess, IMO.

    Carry on.
  6. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    How is this different from the Evolution thread?
  7. SaberGiiett7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 6
    Slade heres your chance to put down what you truely believe about the issue.Where did the matter that caused the Big Bang come from?
  8. stevo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 4
    Well, all I'm saying is that- to me- it seems that god can be quite contradictory. She says she loves all of her creation, but yet, when they denounce her she still loves them. Loves them enough to ship off to eternal damnation.
  9. SaberGiiett7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 6
    KnightWriter-The other debate is about the evoulutionary process this is just on the origin of life.
  10. stevo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 4
    Asking where the Big Bang came from is like asking who created God.
  11. MadMardigan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2001
    star 4
    Knightwriter-

    The big bang and evolutionary theory are completely different theories and have nothing to do with one another.

    On to my thoughts-

    I'm an atheist. Yet I still have problems conceiving the big bang. Just like my problems understanding quantum physics. Yet if I were a theist (more specifically a creationist) I would think the big bang would be used as the ultimate scientific proof of the existence of God (if the big bang were in fact 100% true). Of course this doesn't necessarily mean the existence of God in the Abrahamic sense. But simply could be used as evidence of a very powerful being who can create universes.
  12. Lieutenant Tschel Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 1999
    star 2
    I'm with Wylding (or at least the stance he appears to favor) in that I view the Big Bang (as that's the best science has come up with to this date) as the means by which God created the universe. The same goes for evolution.
  13. Ramius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 3
  14. SaberGiiett7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2002
    star 6
    THe big Bang theorie takes as big a leap of faith as Creationism does
  15. Cheveyo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 5
    I read once an analogy that said, "Science and Religion do not contrast, as they do not answer the same questions. Science seeks to answer the question 'How?', while religion endeavors to find the answer to 'Why?'

    That being said, I still think there is some merrit to the Big Bang Theory. I need to do some digging (research) before I expound, though. Don't want to get my facts in a rumple! ;)
  16. Frank Slade Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 1998
    star 2
    OK let me clarify the purpose of this thread. Biblical creation accounts postulate that the earth and the universe was spontaneously created in its current form. Big Bang theory postulates that the universe was created in a singularity, and that for about 15 billion years the universe has been reacting to the effects of that singularity. These are obviously in conflict, and SaberGhiett asked for some evidence in favor of Big Bang theory. I personally don't think Big Bang theory contradicts God's creation of the universe, but it does stand in contradiction to a literal interpretation of Genesis, so that's why the thread is here. What we need first is for someone to explain Big Bang theory in physical terms - that will give Saber a response to his question, and perhaps that will lead to a discussion of the religious implications of the theory, if there are any. I can try to provide such a description, but like others, I'll need some time to make it coherent. Anyone else can feel free to try.
  17. Darkside_Spirit Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 3
    As has already been pointed out, there are no incompatibilities between Big Bang theory and the proposition that, "God created the universe". It's the Genesis creation account and other specific religious tales that the Big Bang may or may not be incompatible with. I do, however, maintain that positing a God as the cause of the Big Bang is unscientific--if it requires a cause, then God does not provide it, due to his being outside the realm of natural law; and if it does not require such a cause, then Occam's Razor will cut God out.

    The evidence for the Big Bang is of two strains:

    Expansion of the universe. We have observed that the matter in the universe is still expanding at an incredible rate, apparently away from a central focal point. Backtracking this leads to a huge explosion of matter sometime in the past.

    Cosmic background radiation. Space has been observed to possess a small degree of background heat, a few degrees on the absolute scale. It is posited that this background radiation may be left over from the Big Bang.
  18. dustchick Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2000
    star 1
    The evidence for the Big Bang is of two strains:

    Expansion of the universe. We have observed that the matter in the universe is still expanding at an incredible rate, apparently away from a central focal point. Backtracking this leads to a huge explosion of matter sometime in the past.

    Cosmic background radiation. Space has been observed to possess a small degree of background heat, a few degrees on the absolute scale. It is posited that this background radiation may be left over from the Big Bang.


    Let me expound upon each point a bit more:

    Expansion of the universe: Not only is this observed by looking at the Doppler shifts of the light of galaxies, Einstein's theory of general relativity predicts an expanding universe. Special relativity and general relativity hold up pretty well to testing, so this can be used in this argument.

    Cosmic Microwave Background radiation: Interesting about the CMB is that it was predicted as a relic of the Big Bang and THEN it was discovered by accident (Penzias and Wilson, trying to clean the "noise" from a radio telescope). The temperature of the predicted CMB and the observed temperature were in good agreement.
  19. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    In my opinion, both Creation and Evolution need faith.

    In Creation, we need faith that there has always been an all knowing, all-powerful God.

    In Evolution, we need faith that there was once some dirt(Hydrogen, actually) that blew up around 14 billion years ago.

    I believe in God.

    Atheistic evolutionists must therefore believe there was some Hydrogen that was never created.
  20. Terr_Mys Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    I believe in the big bang theory...probably the best scientific explanation as to the origin of the universe so far. But I also believe that God created the universe. Does that mean I'm contradicting myself? :confused: I don't think so...

    -tm loves sophie marceau
  21. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Um...

    It's a bit hard to explain.

    Death came into the world through Adam.

    Many animals died before Adam in theistic evolution.

    Therefore, the Bible is not true.

    Why should we then trust it in the least?
  22. _Darth_Brooks_ Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 4
    There is absolutely no incompatibility in a Big Bang and the Genesis account of Creation.


  23. Ramius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 3
    Death came into the world through Adam

    Isn't it death and suffering only for humans? Does the bible tell whether or not the animals had a perfect life before Adam? I don't have a bible handy at the moment.
  24. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    There is absolutely no incompatibility in a Big Bang and the Genesis account of Creation.

    PPOR.

    However, "Let there be light" may be a reference to God making the universe go BOOM!
  25. Cheveyo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 5
    I can see it now...

    <<God pats down his shirt pockets and looks around. "Anyone have a match?">> ;)

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