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Big Bang vs Creation

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by SaberGiiett7, Jul 30, 2002.

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  1. Liquid_Snake

    Liquid_Snake Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2002
    A very intelligent conversation, to be sure. I merely have this to add:

    'First, I want to remind you that in the last days there will be scoffers who will laugh at the truth and do every evil thing they desire. This will be their argument: "Jesus promised to come back, did he? Then where is he? Why, as far back as anyone can remember, everything has remained exactly the same since the world was first created."
    They deliberately forget that God made the heavens by the word of his command, and he brought the earth up from the water and surrounded it with water. Then he used the water to destroy the world with a mighty flood. And God has also commanded that the heavens and the earth will be consumed by fire on the day of judgment, when all ungodly people will perish.'
     
  2. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 1999
    According to Spinoza, questions about the creator are moot because the universe and the creator of the universe are one and the same.
     
  3. Bithysith

    Bithysith Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 6, 2000
    Sounds very much like Panthiesm to me. :)
     
  4. SaberGiiett7

    SaberGiiett7 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2002
    Liquid_Snake brings up some very good points.


    How about this question,If God is supernatural(Created the universe) how could he not be omnipresent?
     
  5. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    the earth will be consumed by fire on the day of judgment, when all ungodly people will perish.


    You know something. If I were to create a universe, I sure as hell wouldn't create individuals who hated or didn't believe in me.

    As for being omnipresent. When you are talking about the supernatual, how do you prove such things?

    You either believe it or you don't.

    Or you could call the Ghostbusters! :p

    Latre! :D
     
  6. Bithysith

    Bithysith Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 6, 2000
    "Omnipresent"? Again, this bears a striking resemblence to the philosophy of Panthiesm, and other animistic ways of looking at the universe.
     
  7. Darth_SnowDog

    Darth_SnowDog Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 10, 2001
  8. Emilie

    Emilie Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2002
    How can anyone believe in creation?
    The bible says Adam and Eve had two sons, one killed the other and then what? He had sex with Eve (the only woman on earth) and got kids...and these kids had sex with each other for generations until we get to the point we are now?
    This is ridiculous, humanity in that case would not have survived a couple generations before getting totally screwd up and weak-minded. And We would NOT be here, trust me on this!
    I believe the Bible, just as the Coran, are books of philosophical tales. They are not meant to be taken word for word but to be interpretated through symbols. Like "Adam and Eve"; that means "humanity through the man and the woman", etc.
    Other example : the bible says that Eve was made out of Adam's rib.
    It has gotten to my ears that "be taken of somebody's rib" is a very old hebrew (or whatever) expression that means : be inseparable, be linked forever.
    See what I mean? So in my world, the beginning of the bible basicly says : Humanity is made of men and women who are inseparable. (Take one off, the other dies, and vice-versa).
    I personnaly am atheist, so tell me about one god or another I'm not going to care. Don't ask me why are muslims praying Allah and jews Yahve (which is the same god, actually. Just different cults) My post don't say there is NO god, because I just don't know about it. Why would there be, but why not?

    There is a Calvin and Hobbes sentence I really likes : here is how it goes :
    Calvin : Does Santa Claus exist? Then why the whole big secret about it, what does this guy have to hide? Why doesn't he just show himself and there we go, no more opponents to his existence! But if he doesn't exist, then what's the meaning of this gigantic lie?!"
    Hobbes : (answers whatever, I don't remember the exact terms)
    Calvin : Actually, I have the same questions about God.

    There you go : why would there be a god, but why not, actually? I don't know. But I believe it isn't very important. The important things is to know why do we go on. Why do I treasure my life : because of paradise, because of god, because of my beliefs in Life and humanity, because of money, love, family whatever? As soon as YOU know what keeps you on your feet, what else matters?

    About Big-bang : Big bang is a theory. It is now considered as true, until another explaination is found. That's how science goes : try one thing; if it makes sense, works good in any way, then it's true. But once another and more complete explaination is found, then science adopts the new explaination as the closest to truth, etc. In our times, Big-Bang is the ultimate theory. But it's open to be contested for a better explaination anytime. Thus, I do not know if there was a Big-bang, just as I don't know if there is a God.

    But one thing I know : don't take the bible word for word... Take the lessons of it, all right.
     
  9. ADMIRALSPUZZUM

    ADMIRALSPUZZUM Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2002
    don't take the bible word for word... Take the lessons of it, all right.

    I belive that is always very important to remember.
     
  10. SaberGiiett7

    SaberGiiett7 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2002
  11. robfett

    robfett Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2002
    How can anyone belive in evolution? It too is a belief just like creation (though a very poor one at least.) An evolutionist has no facts to base their theories on! Creation on the other hand has numurous facts to prove the great flood and creation. These "scientists" have led you to belive that Darwenism is all fact.
     
  12. ADMIRALSPUZZUM

    ADMIRALSPUZZUM Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 13, 2002
    :(

    *puts on helmet, runs into the bunker to await the flame-throwers*
     
  13. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    :eek:

    First this thread isn't about evolution.

    Second,
    Please post this proof of the great flood and creation.

    I'm all "ears."

    Latre! :D


    Edit: ADMIRALSPUZZUM, [face_laugh] , Lookout because here it comes! :p
     
  14. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 1999
    Of course there's proof of the great flood! Several different cultures refer to it (it occurs in the Hebrew Bible, Gilgamesh, and the mythologies of several middle eastern religions of the time). Therefore it MUST have happened. :p

    Anyway, if creation as laid out in the Bible is a "fact", how do you explain the fact that there are two contradictory creation stories placed side-by-side like literature rather than history? Which canon is more canon?
     
  15. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    Curses!

    Darn mythologies!

    When am I ever gonna accept them as fact?!

    [face_plain]

    :p

    Latre! :D
     
  16. robfett

    robfett Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2002
    I don't know about you but sea shells and chopped timber dated 4,000 B.C. is awfully suspicious on the highest slope of Mt. Everest where no trees grow and uh, there aren't any oceans either. We're talkin' Global flood here.
     
  17. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    ?[face_plain]

    Um...Okay. I'm sold.


    [face_plain]


    Latre! :D
     
  18. robfett

    robfett Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 2, 2002
    To what?
     
  19. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    Well, if you must know.

    I'm sold on the fact that many people here have great imaginations, and are capable of believing in a great many things, whether or not they have proof or these things make rational sense.

    Latre! :D
     
  20. Ender

    Ender Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 1998
    I don't know about you but sea shells and chopped timber dated 4,000 B.C. is awfully suspicious on the highest slope of Mt. Everest where no trees grow and uh, there aren't any oceans either. We're talkin' Global flood here.

    I imagine you've not heard of plate tectonics? You know, the cause of earthquakes and volcanoes?

    Everest is a very young mountain being formed from an ancient sea floor. This is due to the subcontinent of India colliding with the rest of Asia. This sea floor layer is uplifted to form the mountain.
     
  21. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    Ender,

    Now you're just talking silly! :p

    I don't recall seeing that in the bible anywhere. ;)

    Latre! :D
     
  22. Ender

    Ender Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 1998
    Maybe if I throw in a unicorn it will sound more believable? ;)
     
  23. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    [face_laugh]

    It just might! :)

    It just might indeed! :D

    Latre! :D
     
  24. Ender

    Ender Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 1998
    Well, it's either the unicorn or the pegasus. ;)

    I forgot to add that the shells found on Everest are fossils so I doubt they have been dated at 4000 years. Trees can grow on mountains and they probably were at a certain altitude and eventually were pushed up to a higher elevation due to the plate tectonics.

    Although I've never heard of trees being found on Everest?

    Edit: Found info about the trees found on Everest. They were fossilized palm trees.
     
  25. Master-Jedi-Smith

    Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    For some reason or another Ender, that makes awhole lot of sense to me! :)

    Oh, the tree and shell thing is what I'm talking about, just in case anyone was wondering. :p

    Latre! :D
     
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