Big is NOT beautiful...

I think we're talking about deliberately obese people, not big boned or buxom beauties. I personally think larger women can be attractive, to a degree.

 

Well, it just seems to me that TEF is talking about all big individuals.

What's wrong with thinking you're beautiful? In the end, we are all going to die, and it really won't matter, will it?


Latre!

 

We're all going to die? Who told you that?

Anyway my dad's best friend is obese. Never took care of himself after a certain age. Now he has diabetes, and can't even exercise becasuse of the damage it might do. Has to walk with a cane and there has been talk of maybe having to amputate one of his feet. He lives on disability benefits.

It's kind of sad, he's the nicest and most generous guy, but he's destroyed his body and i'm sure he'll be gone soon.

 

"I know exactly what Emperor's Foot is talking about, but it's a difficult opinion to express, perhaps."

Perhaps?

"I a person is healthy but large why should they not be treated with respect?"

I never said anything of the sort! To not respect someone just because they're heavy is most certainly idiotic. Some of the most wonderful people I know are overweight.

However, that produces a nice sort of parodox: Why is smoking seen as a reflection of someone's character, but if you were to assume the same type of things about a fat person who is undoubtedly more unhealthy, you'd be seen as an insensitive jerk, a judgemental, unsympathetic bigot...?

EDIT #1: Wow, in the moments it took for me to write my first reply, there were many replies, that I'd like to answer:

cydonia:
"I think we're talking about deliberately obese people..."

Exactly. The ones who don't feel they need to exercise or maintain a steady and healthy weight because of the people afraid to argue with them at the risk of coming across as rude or cruel, and instead tell them that "big is still beautiful."

EDIT #2:
Again, cydonia:
Sorry to hear about your father's friend, but he's a very good example of what I'm talking about.

 

Personally, I have never seen smoking as a reflection of character. I smoked for almost 20 years and just recently quit. My husband is working on it right now. Why?... health.
Not character... simple health.


But regardless... that's getting off topic.



Edit. [spl]

 

A little birdy told me.


Anyway, being over weight appears to be just another life style.

You have a 50/50 chance of living or die each die, no matter what you do.

Healthy, beautiful people die each day.

Are you suggesting that we start up a national campaign addressing this issue?


Sort of like the smoking ads?

"Attention fast food restaurants! You are killing people with your supersize meals! From now on serve only regular portions to your customers!"


Should we have to step on a scale before we order food, so we don't eat too much.

I'm just wondering where the statement "Big is not beautiful" is leading to.

Don't tell fat people they are beautiful because they are not? Or don't tell them they are beautiful because they are unhealthy? And if that's the case, what difference is that going to make? There were fat people before the big "Big is Beautiful" movement, and there will be fat people after it is gone.

What do you want to do?

Edit: Just a general question to all.


Latre!

 

Actually the same people who brought the lawsuits against tobacco companies are gearing up to do it to fast food places. Make it more expensive so it's harder for people to get fat. Which is pretty lame but it's happening.

 

Yes, I heard that somewhere as well.

They, as well as other restaurants, cater to overweight individuals. Buffets for example, "All you can eat" nights.

Clothing stores/sections also cater to the needs of big people.

Should they all be made to stop making big clothes because it encourages people to be fat?

Latre!

 

Agreed JMS... I have no desire to live in a perfect size 6 mold. Ppl will do anything for a lawsuit. LOL... I can see it now...


John Doe wins Lawsuit against Buffet...

"They should have stopped serving me after my second plate.. it's thier fault I'm overweight!"... Whatever.

Let's go after store like L. Bryant... Big ppl don't need nice clothes... if they want to dress nice... let them lose weight.

Sadly... some ppl actually think this way.

 

"Not character... simple health. "

Isn't the daily decision to stay healthy and respect your body part of one's character?

 

Some people are overweight no matter how they take care of themselves, just as some people (like myself) are thin no matter what we do.

 

"'Attention fast food restaurants! You are killing people with your supersize meals! From now on serve only regular portions to your customers!'"

This is quite unrealistic. What should be done (that is to say if anything really should be done concerning this) is to perhaps start a national campaign addressing the dangers and risks of fast-food not to the restaurants, but to the customers, as opposed to, "Yeah, go ahead - remember, it's completely okay, 'cause you'll still be beautiful! No problem!"

"Make it more expensive so it's harder for people to get fat. Which is pretty lame but it's happening."

You've gotta be kidding! LOL, that's the most ridiculous thing I've read recently! Sad, but true...

"Not character... simple health."

We aren't taught or told that smoking is not a reflection of character? Then why are parents so concerned about their kids hanging around the "wrong crowd?"

MOM: So, Tim, how do you like the new neighbors?
TIM: Yeah, the kids are pretty cool, but the older one smokes.
MOM: *gasp* What? He smokes --- he smokes!? Well, I don't want you to hang around with him or any of his friends, because those kids are trouble!

Whether you agree with what this "mom" is saying, that's what a lot of parents tell their kids, and what the D.A.R.E. (drug education) programs in schools tells the students.

And, to quote Darth Fierce:
"Isn't the daily decision to stay healthy and respect your body part of one's character?"

If smoking reflects character, why shouldn't obesity?

(And KnightWriter, I'm talking about people who allow themselves to become overweight because they are fed the false idea that than can become bloated and unhealthy and still be beautiful.)

 

I fail to see how smoking and being overweigh mesh, but whatever. we don't live in a perfect world and ppl have vices.

Anyway... I was wondering... Who is in charge if deciding who is too overweight and who is ok?... You can't even go by anymore... Read some info on it... It really doesn't matter the actual lbs. someone is... it's how their body deals with it. Ppl can be large and still be healthy, and very active. I don't mean 5'3 and 400 lbs, but lets get real... for a lot of ppl 125 lbs isn't healthy either... thier weight is too low.

Why not focus on fitness and health rather than numbers? Honestly.

 

Of course, you need to be a proportionate weight to your height. It's not saying that everyone needs to be 120 pounds no matter what your height is, if you are taller, you should weigh more than people that are significantly shorter than you. (i.e. 6'3 200 lbs. is a pretty proportionate weight, but you shouldn't be 200 lbs. if you're only 5'8, unless it's muscle weight, and not fat)


But anyway, I agree, the "Big is beautiful" thing is ridiculous. It's more of a Politically correct thing than anything. Making sure that people don't feel bad about themselves because they're overweight. And no one I know likes the skinny anorexic girls either, including me. The assumption that most people who are overweight have a "sickness" is also completely ridiculous. Sure, there are SOME people that have metabilism disorder, which they really can't do anything about, I don't have a problem with them, because they really can't help it. But to say that all obese people have that is obsurd. The majority of overweight people are just lazy, and can't stop eating. It's not like you have to go and kill yourself and workout all the time, just watch what you eat, and excercise regularly. If you don't, then you have no one to blame but yourself.

 

Well, I used to think like you guys but once you get a taste of a bigger woman, you may never go back. Sure the thin female form is absolutely amazing, but for one, so is the bigger female form, and two love is what counts, not just your idea of attractiveness. Rent Shallow Hal?

 

Right on CarbonKnight!


So some people like to eat, get fat, and have no one to blame but themselves. Does this mean that they should be treated any different in society?

Should they be looked down on?

Airlines are starting to charge them extra because they are bigger than others, but they are still one person.

Clothing for overweight people cost more. How much more material do they really have to use that they have to charge more?

Shouldn't the opposite occur for really small or skinning people? They should be charged less for items, shouldn't they?

Latre!

 

Airlines are starting to charge them extra because they are bigger than others, but they are still one person.


If a person takes up two seats on a completely booked flight but only pays for one, the airline does not get paid as it should.

 

Then they should have a "fat" section.



Latre!

 

To clarify, big is beautiful but not too big right? 400 pounds is ridiculous. Needing two seats on an airplane is ridiculous. I'm talking like 40-50 pounds overweight for a woman at most... because when you're over that there is a problem.

 

Well, I won't lie to you, I would rather look at "average" size women. But when you are talking about social interaction with people, I don't discriminate because of someone's weight, race, sex, disability, or whatever else you can think of.

Who doesn't know someone who is overweight? Do you go up to them and say, "You know, big is not beautiful, why don't you lose some weight."

Of course not. Is it because you are trying to be PC, or because they are a friend or an acquaintance, and it just wouldn't be a nice thing to do to another human being?

I know deep down, alot of overweight people wish they were skinner just so they could fit into society's definition of beautiful. Yes, 400 pounds and up is not healthy for anybody, but making those people feel even worse is not the solution.

Latre!

 

Alright, having lived both sides of this argument, I shall add my voice...

I am currently overweight. I go to the gym and am in decent health. If you look at women in my family, I'm one of the more slender. I have some genetics working against me here, but I do admit to some overeating, especially when depressed.

When I was in high school and in my undergraduate days, I was the perfect weight for my height - 5' 5", 120 lbs. I wore a size 11/12 at that weight (think about that and compare to our size 4 supermodels). I was always called fat, even by my family ("you'd be so pretty if you just lost weight", "you have such a pretty face, but...").

One of the reasons I'm heavier now is that I figured there was no point in not indulging...I was already fat in other people's eyes. It is to my 18 year old self that the "big is beautiful" remarks should be addressed. Let's not hold our teenaged girls to unhealthy standards of beauty. Also, many of the rail thin young girls you see look that way not because of healthy exercise, but because they smoke to surpress their appetites.

There are two target groups: heavier people who need to get in shape, and young women who need to know that they don't have to be a size 4 to be beautiful. These are not mutually exclusive - both viewpoints argue for better health.

 

However, that produces a nice sort of parodox: Why is smoking seen as a reflection of someone's character, but if you were to assume the same type of things about a fat person who is undoubtedly more unhealthy, you'd be seen as an insensitive jerk, a judgemental, unsympathetic bigot...?

People who think this obviously have never had a weight problem. In high school, I did. Let me tell you, people DO say incredibley mean things to people even slightly overweight, so I am sure that being a morbidly obese person must be hell. It is not just young people who make cruel comments either. People assume that if you are fat, you are lazy and undisciplined. I had a friend who was very large and had a hard time finding a job because employers assumed she wouldn't work just because she was fat. So if you think people are just boohooing on smokers and not on fat people-think again. One of the most difficult things to be in this society is an overweight woman.

Secondly, being fat is a physical and MENTAL disease and it takes a lot of willpower and strength to lose the weight and keep it off. I get so goddamned tired of people who say, "if you don't want to be fat, put down the fork". If only it were that easy. Permenant weight loss requires treatment of both the MIND and the BODY, which is too often ignored by weight-loss clinics and doctors. And let me tell you, if losing weight and keeping it off were so damn easy, then most Americans would not be overweight or obese and the weight loss industry wouldn't be a billion dollar business.

 

You can't just say "obesity reflects character". There are people who are obese because of medical conditions, people who have bad eating and exercise habits, people who gain weight to deal with depression or grief, and people who are actually just big-boned or whatever and mistaken for "chubby" when they're really perfect for their size. Of those, only the second and third are character issues - and the third is a temporary state for most people.

My grandmother is nearly 90, has always been 20-30 pounds overweight, shaped like a little beachball with legs, looks 65, never needs more than 5 hours of sleep, and moves faster than the Millennium Falcon, so it seems to work fine for her. But others in my family who are built a lot like her feel sluggish and miserable. They always thought we just had "fat genes" because most of us could eat nothing but salads without dressing and still put on weight. Turns out it's a thyroid condition and it's fixable.

Most overweight people eat a lot less than their skinny friends, and still don't lose weight. I'm sure some of them have undiagnosed medical conditions like my family, but they also sometimes get overweight due to depression or grief, then their metabolism doesn't respond like it used to, and they simply don't know what foods trigger weight loss responses.

And exercising does not change my dimensions at all - it simply converts everything to muscle, but doesn't rein any of it in closer to my bones.

 

"Most overweight people eat a lot less than their skinny friends,"


How can that be? That's saying that most people who are overweight have some kind of REAL disease, and not just some "Oh, I can't help it" thing, which is incorrect. Like I said earlier, yes, there are people who do have things medically wrong with their bodies and can't do much to prevent it. But for the majority of overweight people, it's simply a case of lack of excercise, and eating too much.

 

But for the majority of overweight people, it's simply a case of lack of excercise, and eating too much.

Do you have anything to back that up with?