Biggest Plot Hole

Here's some: Sarcasm alert, however.

Oh look! We have a huge, big, powerful Death Star. It can be destroyed with a single shot. That can't happen again, so let's rebuild the thing, and this time have the main reactor in a huge, open area that isn't guarded! It can still be destroyed with a few shots, but that doesn't matter!

We're powerful Jedi! We can read minds....yet we couldn't sense the Queen and Padme were the same!

Darth Vader checking as to whether he really killed Padme or not. If he'd done all that for her, why would he kill her? Hello!

 

Sarcasms as in you're kidding right?

 

We're powerful Jedi! We can read minds....yet we couldn't sense the Queen and Padme were the same!

Qui-Gon knew the whole time. Some of the things he said ("then the Queen doesn't have to know") were to tick Padme off.

Darth Vader checking as to whether he really killed Padme or not. If he'd done all that for her, why would he kill her? Hello!

He thought that she had turned against him and no longer loved him. Therefore, even though he had done everything for her, she didn't want the rewards of his "work" and it had all been for nothing.

 

Oh look! We have a huge, big, powerful Death Star. It can be destroyed with a single shot. That can't happen again, so let's rebuild the thing, and this time have the main reactor in a huge, open area that isn't guarded! It can still be destroyed with a few shots, but that doesn't matter!

That one is exonerated from critical ire, due to its inclusion in the OT. Kidding aside, I suppose that with the construction of the first Death Star, Lucas intended to accentuate the Empire's arrogance, a trait which was mostly encapsulated within the character of Tarkin ("Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances"). In Return of the Jedi, the representation of hubristic affect is transferred to Emperor Palpatine, who in a manner similar to that of Tarkin, believes his "battle station" to be safe from the Rebel assault. A reasonable deduction would suggest that a being who is clearly as intelligent as Palpatine, would have learned from his previous mistakes and have chosen instead to design a more fortified Death Star; however, the filmmakers opted not to go down this route, and so we are left with a re-worked concept.

We're powerful Jedi! We can read minds....yet we couldn't sense the Queen and Padme were the same!

I agree with what jedi_master_ousley said. The idea was that Qui-Gon had known Amidala's true identity all along, but instead feigned ignorance in order to tease her, as well as conceal the degree of his intelligence; indeed, Lucas indicated on The Phantom Menace's DVD commentary track that this was the case. My personal opinion is that as a filmmaker, Lucas didn't effectively communicate this - while I wouldn't have expected an elaborate scene detailing Qui-Gon's level of awareness concerning this matter (nor would it have been necessary), a more pronounced intimation would have been appreciated, as the issue in question is a little too veiled.

Darth Vader checking as to whether he really killed Padme or not. If he'd done all that for her, why would he kill her? Hello!

In terms of characterization, I think it's important to realize that Anakin didn't turn to the darkside simply out of love for his wife; rather, he did so out of his own selfishness and insecurity. Did he love Padme? Yes, but the matter is slightly more complex. The subtext seems to be that Anakin wanted control over life and death so that he could prevent those close to him from dying; his warped sensibilities are rooted in fear, and consequently develop into ego-centric aspirations which masquerade as altruism.

From a structural standpoint, Lucas is implementing an element of dramatic irony into Anakin's character trajectory. This conceit is not entirely unfamiliar, but it does reveal a certain sophistication in the film's design - Anakin's character arc corresponds to the (simplified) definition of a conventional tragic hero (in the Shakespearean sense), in which the central figure's downfall is embedded in his own personal failings. The paradoxical nature of Anakin's tragedy is contained within the notion that, while he sought to save Padme's life by immersing himself within evil, this endeavor also led to his character's corruption, a state in which he caused her death. Anakin eventually becomes so consumed by his own arrogance and greed, that he acts out in anger, without thought of consequence. Perhaps Lucas' attempt to have Padme die from "a broken heart" was not successful, and instead he should have made her character die from injuries sustained during her confrontation with Anakin, but few films are perfect. Overall, I think that with the applicable character trajectory devised by Lucas, Anakin's fall ultimately becomes more poignant and human.

 

"A young apprentice of mine by the name of Darth Vader betrayed and murdered your father." -- Obi-Wan Kenobi, A New Hope

It's a metaphor, folks. METAPHOR.

No, it was a lie.


"We're powerful Jedi! We can read minds....yet we couldn't sense the Queen and Padme were the same!"

Qui-Gon knew the whole time

I don't think he did. Nothing in the movie states he did. But, I agree it is not a plot hole. The Jedi didn't make a habit of reading people's minds. Why would he have suspected Padme's ploy?

 

I'm Yoda, I can detect subtle changes in a person's emotions like fear but I can't detect a conspiracy involving thousands of Clone troopers!

 

Love-ash, shhhh

 

When Padme reveals herself to Boss Nass, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan exchange a "knowing" look.

On the commentary, Lucas explains that they knew all along.

The movie is a lot funnier in places when you realise this.

Qui-Gon: The 'Queen' trusts my judgement... 'You' should too.

 

No, it was a lie.

Its a dead horse but didn't Yoda tell Luke "not ready for the burden"? Obi Wan was hinting it. Just didn't tell him the "real" fact. Otherwise, he didn't have to say Vader was a former Jedi, under him. The idea was to get Luke interested to learning more about the Jedi and the Force and later on how dangerous that fear can lead to the Darkside.

knowing look

Ah but the better one was "the Queen doesn't need to know" and the glance back at Padme. Refined humour, just awesome.

 

Guys, and ladies, I think the thing with Leia remembering Padme is the force. Everyone says, as I did, "Then why doesn't Luke remember her?". Remember this?:

OBI-WAN : I have a bad feeling about this.
QUI-GON : I don't sense anything.
OBI-WAN : It's not about the mission, Master, it's
somethging...elsewhere...elusive.


Qui-gon didn't sense ANYTHING. The force works in mysterious ways. Not everybody get's the same experience.


Also, some people keep quoting Yoda as saying, "Different faces you will see..." in TESB. I'm pretty sure he says different "places". Anyone else hear it that way?

 

When Padme reveals herself to Boss Nass, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan exchange a "knowing" look.

Looked like a surpised look, to me, but anyway, I wasn't aware of GL's comments on the commentary. I guess that settles that.


"No, it was a lie."

Its a dead horse but didn't Yoda tell Luke "not ready for the burden"?

Sure, it was a lie to protect him, but it was still a lie. Yoda owned up to deceiving him by saying that he just wasn't ready for the burden, but Obi-wan has to make up all that garbage about "certain point of view", which really cheapened the character, I thought.

 

Good Lord!

Why don't they name this forum the "Anti-Prequel Trilogy" Forum, while they're at it.

I swear to God! If you hate the PT so much, why do you waste your time posting messages on topics about the trilogy? Why do you? Are you really that upset that it was different from the OT or from your expectations on how the trilogy would be? What exactly were you expecting? At least two movies dedicated to Anakin hunting down Jedi Knights? Did you expect Anakin to show signs of the "dark side" from the beginning . . . and without any ambiguity whatsoever? Because that is the impression I get from reading so many of these posts that continue to bash the PT.

 

There are two things I thought of. Not sure if they fit into the strict definition of a plot hole. I'll let you decide.

1. Anakin joins the Sith because he wants to save Padme and believes that he will be given that power by Palpatine. He also believes that he is still doing right by the Republic. I can understand that he is emotional and desperate but he only thinks about the events that have very recently transpired. The Sith tried to, and ultimately succeeded, kill Qui-Gon Jinn, the man responsible for freeing him and for his training as a Jedi, through Obi Wan. There was no Seperatist force at that time. What was the "good motive" of the Sith back then? Not really a plot hole but kind of curious.

2. In TPM the Trade Federation know that they are dealing with the Sith. They know Darth Sidious. In AOTC Dooku tells Obi Wan that the Sith Lord betrayed the Trade Federation and that's why they went to him for help. Then in ROTS Nute Gunray is once again in league with Darth Sidious. Either they kissed and made up or Dooku was lying, which is possible.


PS RamRed, I don't know what you're talking about. I'm not seeing a lot of PT hate here, just discussing plot holes. There may be a few haters but I think most of us are just discussing plot holes and trying to find ways of making them make sense. The chill pills are in the second cupboard from the top, on the left. Help yourself.

 

Why don't they name this forum the "Anti-Prequel Trilogy" Forum, while they're at it.

If you hate the PT so much, why do you waste your time posting messages on topics about the trilogy? Why do you?

Did you have anything to add to the conversation, because this post is horribly off-topic.

 

which really cheapened the character, I thought.

If you recall, Luke wasn't really that pleased about that "excuse". But Obi Wan resents that he didn't do a good job in training Anakin, atleast he's modest about it.

However, that being said, I can understand people's grievances about Obi Wan "lying" but he was so sure Vader (formerly Anakin) had lost any good that he had, being a good friend, as Obi Wan fondly remembers. Obi Wan is separating Anakin his good friend to Anakin his former pupil who turned evil. On a personal note, speaking as when I watched ANH the first time (1978) I was wondering whether Obi Wan was actually talking about the same person. Making me believe to this day that, the hints were there, but Luke really took it literally.

 

Good Lord!

Why don't they name this forum the "Anti-Prequel Trilogy" Forum, while they're at it.

I swear to God! If you hate the PT so much, why do you waste your time posting messages on topics about the trilogy? Why do you? Are you really that upset that it was different from the OT or from your expectations on how the trilogy would be? What exactly were you expecting? At least two movies dedicated to Anakin hunting down Jedi Knights? Did you expect Anakin to show signs of the "dark side" from the beginning . . . and without any ambiguity whatsoever? Because that is the impression I get from reading so many of these posts that continue to bash the PT.


Actually, I thought this thread is quite civilized. I made a few post regarding plot holes, but the points I made were just a little fun. Thats all. Just because I noticed them does not mean I dislike the movies, in fact one of the funniest thing someone posted was about ROTJ and why do the rebels bother with all the camaflauge on Endor when they take a gold droid with them that won't shut up.
Please take this thread as a little fun.

 

"Gather what troops you can. We got to get to that hanger!"

But how did Padme ever see the hanger?! Where she fell, there were freakin' miles of mountains in the way!

 

But how did Padme ever see the hanger?!

She didn't, but envisioned it through Anakin. Note that when Anakin is coming to after getting zapped, so is Padme. There's a connection between them. That's my take on it anyway.

 

I thought of another way that Leia might "remember" Padme. Perhaps it wasn't just that Leia has the force and "remembers" her. Maybe it's that Leia has the force, Anakin has the force, Obi Wan has the force and Luke has the force and they are all present the last time Anakin sees Padme. And that last time Anakin sees Padme she is sad but beautiful. It's possible that these "memories" were passed on through Anakin and Obi Wan and Luke and Leia's own ability with the force. You might even be able to sneak "kind" in there by saying that Padme was "kind" by asking Anakin to go with her even though she knew that he had done terrible things. Just another theory.

 

remembering her mother?

since we do not know what happened to Leia, her adoptive mother may have died when she was young, and since she did not know that she was adopted or how she and Luke got separated at birth, it is plausible that she remembers her adoptive mother and not her real mother

 

"Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough"

should be changed to

"I wanted you to have this when you were old enough."

 

Or, "Your father wanted you to have this after I cut off his legs", although that might have creeped Luke out.

 

I refuse to believe some still don't get that Qui Gon knew who Padmé was all the time. While Obi Wan may not have known (although I think he did) Qui Gon certainly did. It is so obvious and Lucas has said so. Is it made obvious? To me, yes but it isn't said in so many words. These lines prove it in my case:

Padmé: Are you sure about this? Trusting our fate to a boy we hardly know. The Queen would not approve.
Qui Gon: The Queen doesn't need to know (he says smiling)
Padmé: Well, I don't approve.

She is basically saying to Qui Gon she is the Queen to begin with. To me it is so ovious Qui Gon knows in this scene. Then we have the podrace scene where Qui Gon says "The Queen trusts my judgment. You should too. This is so obvious. Beside he was going to meet with Nute and company to resolve the Naboo blockade. Don't you think they would know what Naboo's Queen looks like? It's obvious in the film and Lucas has said so. What more do you want?

 

Well Makeup makes people look a bit different.. The Headpiece and the Hair and everything looks different, Also Sabe in the Costume looked almost the exact same until I realized it wasn't Padmé, I don't think Qui-Gonn caught on, he probably sensed something thru the force, but as for actually knowing that Padme was the Queen I say no.

 

GL said Qui-gon knew, you should too.