main
side
curve
  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Saga Biggest Plot Holes & Inconsistencies

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Rachel_In_Red, Jun 7, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Jedi_Lover

    Jedi_Lover Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2004
    So I guess that one is solved. It was a plot hole and now it is filled. :p
     
  2. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    You are missing the point.

    I never said that Padmé knew she was free. I said that Padmé failed to find a solution to help her.

    Here's the scenario I am proposing:

    --Watto loses everything in betting on the pod race and so sells Shmi to the Larses
    --Not long after, a delegation from Naboo arrives looking to free Shmi
    --Watto no longer has her, but does not want to help the Nubians since he recognizes their ships and is still bitter about how they played a part in him losing his slaves
    --Thus, Watto is utterly uncooperative -- he refuses to tell them that Shmi is freed and won't let them see her
    --The Nubians can't bribe him in this context because Watto no longer owns Shmi -- the person they want; and he's happy to cause them trouble after the part they played in hurting his business
    --And if they keep insisting, Watto could threaten to hurt Shmi (even if she's not in his grasp anymore, the Nubians don't know that)
    --Thus, the delegation would back off in fear of causing Shmi more problems

    It's not about "bartering" -- it's about Watto not owning Shmi anymore and not wanting to cooperate out of petty revenge.

    And hiring a private security force does not remedy the fact that Shmi has an explosive device in her body. If she tries to escape from Watto, it will explode. They would have to deactivate it before making any escape attempt and there's no guarantee that they would be able to without Watto discovering that they are there. In which case, he might kill her just to prevent the Nubians from getting her.

    The bottom line is this: regardless of whose palms Padmé would try to grease, these plans would doubtlessly put Shmi's life in danger. And Shmi is better off alive with Watto than dead.
     
  3. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  4. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Why would Padme send a delegation from her planet to free a slave?

    So she could do a favour to a boy she barely knows who isn't even allowed to speak to his mother anyways?
     
  5. Jedi_Lover

    Jedi_Lover Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2004
    That is why in an earlier post I suggested they bring and EOD tech with them. I get your point. I just disagree with you. It is just my opinion and I am sure there are dozens of different opinions on the subject.
     
  6. PiettsHat

    PiettsHat Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 1, 2011
    I don't know. It's a cost-benefit analysis, I guess. The tech on Tatooine is probably not the same as that on Naboo. And, again, who's to say that Watto wouldn't get wind of it and blow Shmi up (along with the unfortunate EOD tech working on her)?

    If Shmi had been in absolutely terrible condition when Padmé saw her, I would agree that it would be worth the risk, but as it stands, I think that it would be far too dangerous for Shmi and she wouldn't want anyone to work on her anyway -- what if they activated the bomb by accident, for example?

    But we can agree to disagree. :)
     
  7. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008

    What exactly did you expect Qui-Gon to do? When he first made that bet for Anakin's freedom, he tried to bet for both Skywalkers. Watto wasn't having any of that. As far as the latter was concerned, Qui-Gon could only bet on Anakin or Shmi. He even insisted on rolling a dice to decide upon whose freedom would be part of the wager. Qui-Gon could not use the Jedi mind trick on Watto, since that wouldn't work. But he used the Force to ensure that Anakin's freedom would be gambled on.

    Unless Shmi was willing to make a run for freedom (in which she would end up dead once Watto activate that chip in her head), there was no way Qui-Gon or Padme could grant her freedom without paying for it. I suspect Padme got caught up in the politics of Naboo and the Republic. Ten years would pass before she ever see Anakin again after the victory parade. And the Jedi were certainly not going to interfere. In the end, Shmi was freed after Cliegg Lars had purchased her.

    I realize that many want to believe that the Jedi can just swoop in and freed the slaves on Tatooine. But they were merely a religious order that allowed itself to be minions to the Galactic Republic. They were not going to enact emancipation on Tatooine without any political repercussions. Or military ones, which occurred in this country. And to be frank, the Senate was not interested in a backwater planet like Tatooine. I'm sorry, but I feel this demand for Qui-Gon, the rest of the Jedi or Padme to just effortlessly swoop in and free Shmi or any other slave on Tatooine is somewhat unrealistic and based on a desire for these characters to behave in a consistently ideal manner.
     
  8. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Add in the fact that there are 10 thousand Jedi to handle some 70 million-odd systems.
     
  9. Jedi_Lover

    Jedi_Lover Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2004

    If what Iron_lord wrote earlier (see the below quote) is factual then the writers actually did a retcon to show that Qui-Gon made an effort to free Shmi. So I guess they thought Qui-Gon should behave in an ideal manner.

    I am not familiar with the EU material he is referring to other than Tatooine Ghost, so I can't vouch for the quote's veracity.


     
  10. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
  11. Jedi_Lover

    Jedi_Lover Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2004
  12. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    I think Anakin not freeing his mother makes sense. He's not allowed to by the Jedi, though knowing him he probably would have at least tried to break the rules and save her anyway, but he wouldn't have mentioned this to anyone since he was breaking the rules.

    It makes sense to me that the Jedi wouldn't get involved either. The Hutts and other criminal elements control Tatooine, and the Jedi represent the Republic, so they can't be sticking their noses in their business. It's cool that Obi-Wan did something sneaky to help her out in the novelization, but we never learn about that in the films, so that doesn't really matter for the films, but again, it would make sense that the Jedi wouldn't try anything that's not covert, and that's why Obi-Wan does it on the down low.

    However, it doesn't make sense to me that Padme wouldn't have tried to do anything. She clearly isn't aware that he's been sold to Cliegg or that Obi-Wan had helped her out. Anakin saved her planet from the Trade Federation and she was outraged that slavery existed on the Outer Rim. It doesn't make sense to me that she wouldn't have gotten involved. So, unless Padme was really just shallow and only cared about pretty dresses and appearing as if she were noble, it seems to me that she would have done something.

    Also, on this thread, everyone seems to assume that the chip was left in her head after Cliegg bought her. Once she became a free woman, wouldn't she have had it removed? And didn't Anakin have it removed or could have Watto blown up Anakin at any point in the Saga? And if that's the case, you'd think the rebellion would've gotten in touch with Watto. That would have been a pretty easy way to take out Vader!:)
     
    Darth Dnej and Jedi_Lover like this.
  13. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Qui-Gon, not Obi-Wan.

    In the novel I think Watto gives Qui-Gon the wand that's used to deactivate it.
     
    darth ladnar likes this.
  14. Jedi_Lover

    Jedi_Lover Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Is this in the novelization or in another junior novel? I think younger fans have an advantage. Some of you grew up with the junior novels and since everything but Infinities is considered canon...then there is so much that is out there that could possibly retcon just about every plothole. [face_thinking] That is what makes having these conversations so difficult. There is too much information out there from various sources: Radio dramas, comics, adult novels, junior novels, movies, video games and I think the Ewok Christmas special is considered canon also. :oops:

    Ack, I was hoping my last comment wasn't true, but here is what I found on Wiki:

     
  15. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Novelization- though the word "wand" isn't used in that, only in Tatooine Ghost when Shmi's transmitter is deactivated:

    Terry Brooks The Phantom Menace novelization, pages 192-193:

    They went to Watto's shop first, where the Toydarian had completed the forms necessary to assure Anakin's freedom. The transmitter that bound Anakin to his life of slavery was deactivated permanently. It would be removed surgically at a later date. Watto was still grumbling about the unfairness of things as they left him and went back out into the street.
     
    Jedi_Lover likes this.
  16. DRush76

    DRush76 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2008

    He did make an effort to free both Skywalkers. He wanted to bet on the freedoms for both mother and son on the podrace. Watto refused. He made it clear that it either had to be Anakin or Shmi.


    Padme was too busy dealing with the aftermath of Naboo's occupation by the Trade Federation and ruling her planet. And as I had earlier stated, ten years had passed before she saw Anakin again.

    I get the feeling that many want the "good guys" to always do or say the right thing and always behave in an ideal manner. Only roguish characters like Han Solo are allowed to be ambiguous. Otherwise, the rest of the characters have to be either "ideal" or one-dimensionally. There seemed to be no room for any gray areas for the majority of the characters in the saga. I have heard complaints about the lack of ambiguity in the PT. But from my point of view, most of the characters are ambiguous. And when these characters fail to make the right choices, fans write off their questionable actions and behavior as "bad writing", completely ignoring the facts that making bad decisions or engaging in questionable behavior is something that is consistent with humans.
     
    Valairy Scot likes this.
  17. Jedi_Lover

    Jedi_Lover Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Yes, we know that. What Iron_lord was saying is in the novel, The Life & Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi, Qui-Gon had a courier go to Tatooine to deliver a Tobal lens to Shmi Skywalker. In the novel Tatooine Ghost it was written that Shmi gave the Tobal lens to Cliegg to buy her freedom. So, according to the novels, Qui-Gon did do something after he left Tatooine to help Anakin's mother gain her freedom.
     
  18. Pensivia

    Pensivia Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 24, 2013
    Ouch!...harsh, ladnar, harsh...[face_shame_on_you]...:p;)
     
    darth ladnar and Jedi_Lover like this.
  19. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 12, 2013
    Not sure if it's a plot hole, but one thing I never really understood is why Yoda did not think to use the force to flip back up onto the senate pod he was clinging to at the end of the battle with Sidious. He's moved around things that weigh hundreds of times what he does and flipping around is even a huge part of his fighting style.
     
  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Using the Force may be difficult when you've expended that much effort- maybe after all that fighting he's approaching exhaustion.
     
  21. Placeholder

    Placeholder Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2013
    That's just silly. Why would anyone care about Watto being suspicious of anything? That makes almost as little sense as leaving her to rot in the first place? They could have just bought her outright. Or forced Watto to free her. What is he, some great galactic power now? He's a junkdealer.

    The movies leave us this plot hole, and then people have to scramble to fill it, and this is what you get.
     
    Jedi_Lover likes this.
  22. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 12, 2013
    Or maybe Lucas just needed a way to end the fight in a stalemate since both characters had to live. :)
     
  23. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    And Yoda was getting old too :p
     
  24. Rachel_In_Red

    Rachel_In_Red Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    May 12, 2013
    That kinda relates to something I have wondered. Would Yoda likely have been more powerful at, say, 500 years old than 900 years old? Would a little more youth to his body be more beneficial than a few hundred more years of practice with the force?
     
  25. Deputy Rick Grimes

    Deputy Rick Grimes Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 2012
    More than likely.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.