Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by thesuperstarwarsfan, Jul 17, 2004.
Birth of the Rebellion Shown???
it sort of does if you hear the clone trooper mention a rebellion.
But, that still doesn't explain my question about Sidious controlling the senate.
This is off topic, but relates, sort of to this thread. It's been bugging
me ever since I first saw EpIII.
Bail Organa: Man or Mouse?
We have this guy, an esteemed Senator from Alderaan, royalty, no less.
A revered "founder of the rebellion"
When the Clone Troopers are wiping out younglings at the Jedi Temple,
Bail just stands there when that last child is mowed down by gunfire.
He basically soils himself and cowers in his little convertable
airspeeder. Then he tucks his tail and runs like a scalded dog.
So it's time to say what others will not.
Bail Organa is a coward.
He probably didn't even have a weapon.
considering he took a child into his home, and to his wife, knowing that two sith lords may come looking for her, hes pretty brave. in my book at least.
and yah, he didnt have a weapon. he was simply walking away and sees a child killed. the clones then point their blasters at him...what was he supposed to do?
so if an innocent child was gunned down before you in cold blood,
even though you are unarmed, you would do nothing?
OK, first off, there is no more droid army after episode 3. Sidious ordered the Separatists ships to shut down the droids, remember? Anakin may not have relayed the orders to the Separatist ships, but now that it's an offical surrender, they are obligated too within a few days, because no one could possibley forget to inform them of shut down. That's one of the ways to tie down the fact we don't see any of those models in the next 3 films.
But the years between ROTS and ANH is basically just Palpatine slowly disbanding the Senate or at least making it useless and giving power to the regional governors (Grand Moffs, like Tarkin).
Also, originally in the official novel and the script there were scenes between Mon Mothma, Bail, Padme, anfd a few other senators who were fed up with the near dictatorship they were witnessing, and at that point they were basically screwed anyway. But to focus mainly on Anakin they cut these scenes entirely, that's why Padme isn't that big in this film, they cut out her scenes.
In fact, at the end of Palpatine's proclamation of forming an Empire, Bail is supposed to stand and reach for the Senate Pod button to unhook and challenge him, but Padme swipes his hand away and tell's him "there's another way."
by the way, Naboo has such a poor army (remember Episode I?) that I doubt they could hold the Empire off alnogside a bunch deactivated droids in time to make X-Wings, which the clones have in ROTS, but I could see why they would wanna junk them for those new spiffy fighters the Jedi use.
Birth of the Rebellion Shown???
it depends greatly on our own point of view.
Dooku told Obi-Wan that Sidious was controlling the Senate and The Republic. Hundreds of senators were under his influence. With that, Sidious could make the senate do or think anything he wanted them to. If that's true, then couldn't he turn the senate against the future Rebellion's leaders(Bail Organa, Mon Mothma)? And if so, why couldn't he control those senators' minds?
Bail and Padme knew it was wrong but they didnt break away yet. They still have a few years to plan and gain more support.
what is rebellion but resistance? resistance, in this case, to the war-mongering ways and totalitarianism of palpatine. to me, the rebellion is born in that senate pod, upon padme's assessment of liberty's death. bail's narrow escape from the temple and heroic first endeavors to save any more jedi from suffering the same fate as zett are the first true acts of rebellion.
no, they don't have fighter pilot uniforms or anything of that nature. those are elements of the development of the rebellion as we see it in ANH, by then as different an entity as luke and leia are from the infants given birth to in ROTS. rebellion is an idea, a break from codified ways of thinking. and being able to see the ordered universe as an established and socially accepted beast of organization laid out before you and saying that it is wrong is taking the quintessential first step into a larger world...
true..but bail had the future concerning him.
in cut scenes he expresses concerns over palpatine's growing powers, and even shows a loyalty to the jedi order that is rare in the senate.
he sees the destruction of the temple as highly suspicious, and escapes because he knows he needs to get the word out, as well as save other jedi from genocide, that, as far as he knows, is unprovoked.
the rebellion was really created to destroy the sith and to unite themselves with the empire to become a republic again as it did in episode 6. already you could tell the naboo left the senate of the empire cause of padme.
actually naboo was definitly still apart of the senate. its just that they probably supported the rebellion...covertly...just like alderaan.
I agree, but they will be leaving the senate cause grand moff tarking revealed it in episode 4.
AUSSIE, you do know you're basically speculating and guessing, right? Because none of that stuff is even covered by the movies or the EU, or at least not to my knowledge. Such as from my point of view Tarkin said the old Senate is gone (disbanded) and the Regional Governors have total control, and we have no idea how the populace of Naboo reacted, although I bet they supported the Rebellion and possibley the Jedi, but after Palpatine told everyone they tried to assassinate him you have no idea if it could have shaken their faith in the Jedi.
by episode 4, the last of the senator's left the empire which is why the empire was shortter than what they were in episode 3.
This means the senate will be shortining one by one.
I beleive some of the senators that might leave first are mon mothma and bail but leia becomes part of the imperial senate, which gets ended.
dude, the imperial senate is the senate we see in 1, 2, and 3, it's just it's called the imperial senate after palpatine declares it an empire.
And the Senators never left one by one, after all, all but a few supported palpatine, remember all the cheering and butt kissing when he declared himself emperor?
the senate is so corrupt and blind at that moment that they'll believe anything palpatine says now that the Jedi are out of the picture, so I don't see why they would change their minds all of a sudden, Lucas doesn't have his story line set to where all of sudden everyone will go, "crap, we're dumb", he's gonna feed lies and half-truths that the public will love, he doesn't need that type of stuff gonig on with his own people while the clone wars are just starting to settle down, and of course a few Jedi are still out there.
Leia was a member of the Senate like her mother and surrogate father, but she had such a limited authority and like her parents she got ticked off, so she joined the rebellion and became one of the leaders of it, along with her father, the founder.
episode 3 takes place 20 year before episode 4 so by the time of episode 4, all the senators would have gone, as that imperial general said "impossible, how will the emporor control the galaxy without democressy?
that's why the empire was short and weak in the trilogy.
Aussie, I dont know where you get your information but Bloodbrother is right. In the movie (ANH) the Emperor did away with the remaining Imperial Senators (most likely killing them or dismissing them)and the others were basically wittled away by the growing powers of the emperor. (No need for senators and diliberations when all power is in the hands of one man.) the direct control is now up to special governors throughout SECTORS of space to maintain control through force(Stormtroopers and Star Destroyers). Many senators that were dismissed or already forced out of the Imperial Senate, sided with the Rebellion covertly. So therefore your statement of the Senate suceeding from the Empire is wrong.
Another statement you made was incredibly wrong. The Empire may not have lasted as long as the Emporer or Vader would have liked but it was the worst thing the galaxy has seen since the Great Hyperspace War close to 15,000 years ago. The Empire was brutal and if you raised your world against it, your world, if it was weak or had moderate defenses without allies, was terminated. Not to mention you wouldn't do that anyways because of the threat of the Death Star and what its firepower could do. The Empire through ROTS-ROTJ and the EU lasted close to 50 year or so. So your statement on the Empire being weak is also false. It was the strongest Fleet and manpower in the galaxy since the Great Hyperspace War.
Well, we see that the Rebellion's birth is not shown but it is shown to us fanatics that watched the film closely and many times over. The Rebellion was born from the minds of the loyalist commitee. Padme and Bail were at the front of it all. When she tells anakin about being on the wrong side in the clone wars and about the Republic being turned into something that they were fighting against was my first clue to the Rebellion that was forming slowly. The second inclination was Bail's closeness to the jedi and Jedi Master Yoda, Im sure he also wanted the jedi to check up on the Chancellor and find the truth to everything. This is spectualation of course but its very logical. The third thing was in the Senate pod where the empire is born and Padme, Jar Jar, Bail and the rest of the Alderaan and Naboo senate staff were upset and disappointed in the Senate's reaction to the declaration of the Empire by Chancellor Palpatine.
So again, a nice cleshay(spelling?), 'From a certain point of view,' the Rebellion was formed and shown in the movie and made a nice link to the first major victory of the Rebel Alliance over the Empire in ANH.
It was sorta shown... There wasn't the "physical" birth, but the basic structure (bail, Mon I-forget-her-name) was born.
its been said that well see the senators who'll start the rebellion as a delete scene for the dvd, and that slowly the senetors will leave the empire for some reasons.
Palpatine only neede the senators to build the death star, after that, no more senators neede, cause they all later disagreed with his demands, as we do in life.
remember there are alot of life forms who have joined the rebellion, not just human, but alien type, like the twilik, mon calamari, the naboo, the alderian, the corellian, etc.
actually i was bit dissapointed that mon mothma-padme-bail discussion scene was edited out.. that it was found on the script not in the movie... ouch...
you may be a bit confused Aussie, so let me help clear things up:
"its been said that well see the senators who'll start the rebellion as a delete scene for the dvd, and that slowly the senetors will leave the empire for some reasons."
leaving the senate and empire would be separatism, not rebellion, and you can bet as soon as
a senator did so, the imperial war machine would be all over their back to subjugate their world. look at ANH, alderaan was full of rebel sympathizers, and was actually a founding world of the rebel alliance. but leia is still a member..why? well for one, it keeps alderaan safe from imperial subjugation, and more importantly, leia uses her diplomatic immunity to spy for the rebellion. if anything, its an advantage for rebel leaders to have as many ties to the senate as possible.
"Palpatine only neede the senators to build the death star, after that, no more senators neede, cause they all later disagreed with his demands, as we do in life."
palpatine keeps the senate aroud until the death star is ready. once it is, democracy(what was left of it) is completly abolished, and the empire truly embraces its doctrine of fear, by scaring rebel worlds into submission, with a fear of utter abliteration.
"remember there are alot of life forms who have joined the rebellion, not just human, but alien type, like the twilik, mon calamari, the naboo, the alderian, the corellian, etc."
alderaanians, nabooians, and correlians are all humans, the names simply denote their planet of origin. and agreed, while it is never stated in the films, it is implied the empire is human elitist, which is why so many non-humans support the rebellion.
Also, you only see Nordish humans in the service of the Empire. It's supposed to resemble Nazi Germany. Even the uniforms are similar, as well as the use of Stormtroopers.
i saw alien rebels too.
of course there are alien rebels-the mon calamari! and those prune face aliens, but they are barely visible.