Birthday Party request! 05/05/06

Discussion in 'Tucson, AZ' started by dialswiftjustice, Apr 17, 2006.

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  1. cathiecat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2005
    star 4
    I called Beverly, it has been said to me that she is fairly knowledgeable about the R&R's of the 501st. I explained to her the dilemma of our situation and our want to do the right thing.. this is what she told me, the moment you fill out an application to become a member of a 501st Garrison/Outpost you are then considered a member of the 501st and are under their guidelines. It is not just the 501st event that counts.. it is the members themselves.. as a member of the 501st you agree to follow 501st guidelines at all times, not just when at an official 501st event. As such, let's say a DSG member and a non DSG member go to a birthday party in costume and at the end the mom hands the non-member a $50 dollar bill, the non-member would have to say that he really can't accept the cash, however he could accept a check donation for a charity, or a gift card for the amount agreed upon. At this point then the check could be given to the charity, or if a gift card.. it could be used to buy toys for kids, or also, it could be used to buy property for use by the 501st(garrison or outpost), such as a camera, or film. However.. it would not be allowed to use the gift card for anything that involves self promotion or promotion of the group.. such as armor, business cards, banners, props, things of this nature. Another thing to note is that none of these rules were created by the DSG, they were created by the 501st.

    Now, in discussion of the fact that at times 501st members sell their items..

    probably easier just to read it from the horses mouth... this is article VIII of the 501st Charter.

    Article VIII - Merchandising and Promotional Standards

    It is recognized that any organization requires promotion on some level to help it grow. It is also recognized that the 501st Legion is a club based on a copyrighted property and has no legal rights to profit from the sales of merchandise bearing images or ideas from the Star Wars property. Consequently, it is agreed that whatever merchandise or promotional materials are created to advertise the 501st Legion will be sold only to members within the Legion and at cost. No material will be sold to the general public for a profit. All promotional materials will meet the following guidelines before being approved by the club. All materials not abiding by these guidelines will be considered unauthorized and forbidden to all members of the 501st Legion. Any member producing and/or distributing un
  2. cathiecat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2005
    star 4
    *****************************************************

    Okay..back up.. I made a totally incorrect statement.. and I need to correct it! I should not have said it is okay to get compensation.. because that is totally wrong.

    At no time is it okay to make a profit from wearing recognizable star wars costumes. Lucas Films owns the Star Wars name and if you make a profit from something from Star Wars it is against the law.. so the 501st rules exist to protect you, and they are rules that are not just 501st rules.. they are actual laws, it's just that the 501st makes sure their members know that the law is there. This is a law for your protection.. If you sell items regarding star wars and make a profit you are taking from something that you do not own, and have no right to sell. This would mean private citizens as well as clubs.

    I already knew this because of not being able to sell fan fiction....but for some reason I just was not associating it to the question at hand.

    so this is the reason the rules are as they are.


  3. firstsonofsolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2006
    star 4
    Again as to why I called it a "TIP" which in regards there is no requirement for you to claim on your federal taxes as wages and/or profits but such amounts if audited could be considered income.

    I do however disagree with the fact that the 501st claims over TFN. This upsets me as to which it could be said the TUCSON FAN FORCE was not at the march of dimes the DSG 501st was there instead. Now I am taking it to an extreme in this case but you get the idea.

    This brings me to the next big issue that we have been talking about taking polaroids and selling them at events and putting that money into travel expenses and such. If we were to do this if there were a 501st memeber at the event it would negate the ability to do it. BS! I can understand as long as they were in the picture or at least a portion goes to a charity but all of it don't think so. So I guess that means we need to walk on eggshells until we get everything sorted out as far as money making abilities go.

    Prsonally I plan on selling off parts of my armor to cover expenses of buying new armor. There are loop holes to getting around copy rights and what not for mass production but that is another story which none of us need to egt into.

    I find it hard to believe that the 501st expects everyone to fork over the kind of money this hobby requires and and top of that also produce money out of pocket for charities. This seems like an awfully big expense, we are here for the people but personally I am in no shape financially to pay these kinds of expenses on a regular basis and have a "movie quality" costume.

    One other note if a 501st memebr entered a costume contest at a club and first place was say $1000 would they have to forfit that prize? Something to leave you with.
  4. cathiecat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2005
    star 4


    I hope I explain this right.. the place you get into trouble is if LFI decides to sue.. and they have in a few cases done so. As CR it is my responsibility to give you the facts as they exist.


    Incidentally, I was not aware anyone had planned on selling photos to pay for travel expenses.. I had not ever heard about this.. as far as I knew any time we take photos and receive money it is given to the charity we are attending or holding the event for, as it stands now we have given 100% of anything collected at any charity or fundraising event ever to the charity we were there to support. In fact the Fan Force even had to sign waivers with the Red Cross that we would do just that, otherwise they would not have given us the right to use their name. It also protected us though as we have a trail to the charity we gave the money to, so that no one could say we profited from the event.

    As for 501st claiming over TFN, it doesn't, I was just trying to explain that it is utmost for a 501st member to not get caught doing anything wrong as it could bring the hand of LFI down on not only the individual but also down onto the 501st and Fan Force.. it is not that the 501st outweighs the Fan Force, it does not in fact... but.. in the case of profiting from star wars it is an infringement of LFI rights, and if LFI chooses to they can sue and or shut down Fan Force/ TFN/ 501st/ Rebel Legion or anyone they see fit to. It is only by the graces of GL that we are allowed to do what we do with Star Wars. So it is not just 501st.. it is anyone at all. It just so happens that the 501st is a group that does in fact incorporate this law into their own R&R's.
  5. BrotherHalo RSA Emeritus and Heckler

    Member Since:
    May 12, 2003
    star 5
    Ahh, the age old question. Can we accept compensation for our time, or not? Here's my answer, both from the points-of-view as your FanForce RSA and as a member of the 501st.

    Here's the short answer.

    No.

    FanForce is a FAN-BASED grass-roots organization. We are not officially sanctioned by ANYONE. In other words, we are just a group of friends that get together in order to share the love of Star Wars and anything else that piques are interest.

    From the 501st standpoint.

    Hell no.

    I've run into the issue myself exactly as you are hypothesizing here. What if the FF Chapter attends an event that there is a mix of FF only members, 501st only members, and FF/501st members? As a member of the 501st, you are bound to the Charter whenever you appear in your 501st costume. Simple as that. If you don, for example, your TK armor you represent the 501st. If you don't want to be in that situation, don't apply for 501st membership. This also applies for Rebel Legion, Jedi Assembly, GAR, and probably any other costuming organization out there. The 501st is a completely VOLUNTEER ORGANIZATION. The 501st is not a NOT-FOR-PROFIT or NON-PROFIT organization. You cannot accept monetary gifts as a member of the 501st. If you are given something, think how good it'll feel to be able to turn around and give that to someone else who really needs it. If you have a $1000+ costume, then there are definitely other people out there who do not have thay luxury and could use $10 worth of food, for example.

    Since the majority of you are FF only, then I'll give it to you from the FanForce Staff position. What each chapter does is up to that chapter. If you guys decide to require compensation, whether in the form of a donation or a "tip" or any other monetary (whether it's gift card, cash, check), then that's your call. HOWEVER, I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND AGAINST IT. As a general rule of thumb, if you are making a buck off of a costume appearance, you are misrepresenting the owning company, in this case, LFL, and that can get you in serious trouble. LFL recognizes the efforts that FF puts into events and the large numbers in the fanbase. But they will not look the other way if you make money off of their creations. This includes even making enough money to cover travel expenses, paying for equipment used to do stuff for your chapter, etc.

    Let me say it this way - FanForce is ALSO completely volunteer. That's the basis of FanForce. Money is not required to join or operate. Some chapters have decided to collect dues for their organization, and those members that do pay dues sometimes enjoy special privileges not afforded to non-paying members. But those chapters cannot refuse membership for those that either do not wish to or cannot afford to pay.

    So like I said, this is a choice-based group of fans. What you decided to do in order to pay for travel, food, equipment is your own solitary business.

    In 501st terms, yes, you are expected to pay for your own costumes, travel, etc, however you personally and legally decide to do it. The Legion expects its members to do what they do in order to create a movie-quality costume in order to join. If you are going to be attending an official 501st event, it's up to you to figure out how to get there and how to pay for it. It's up to you to figure out how to make or pay for your costume. Yes, it's expensive. That's why there's only a little over 3000 members, rather than the many more there could be if it were cheap and easy. Sure, you can sell of parts of costumes to be able to pay for other stuff. You can sell your action figure collection to earn money for stuff. You can't expect to make a ton of money doing so and not get legal attention from it. The ONLY time I know that the 501st membership was ever compensated for it's travel expenses was when Burger King paid the way to have representation in Las Vegas last year, and when LFL had the Battlefront II shindig in Times Square. There may be other times, but it's limited to corporate sanctioned events.
  6. dialswiftjustice Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 4
    Geez I was just goin for the food
  7. dialswiftjustice Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 4
    Seriously though. BH put it best, and I think his statement should be made into a sticky for all new members to read. We should not accept any kind of compensation. You can not be a meember of this group and expect to make money and keep it yourself. I perosnally don't want the drama, and would rather avoid any problems all together. Lets just not do it. If B-day party requests come in, I think the only form of compensation that should be requested is a check already made out to a charitible organization, like the red cross, world care, ronald mcdonald house etc.

    As far as the 501st being "over" the FF, never, and you will never have see anyone in this group with that kind of attitude. If any 501st member here adopts that kind of attitude they should get the boot in my opinion. The ONLY reason I wanted 501st meembership was access to their incredible knowledge, supplies, charities and activities, and to belong to a group of people with large eharts, much like the FF.
  8. MasterJediDragonSir Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 30, 2005
    star 4
    Well said there DSJ...I myself am on a limited budget and would like to have a studio quality costume and possibly join the Legion...but that takes time and I am in it only for the enjoyment of seeing people happy with the opportunity to be seen with SW characters...I am defintely not in it for money...I have a good time when I do get to particpate in events in costume...I'm proud to be part of the TFF
  9. hal9k1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2003
    star 4
    AMEN brother, amen.
  10. Mugen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2005
    star 4
    I payed close to $15-1600 for my armor, with no outside assistance/nor did I want any. I do this purely for the children. I dont want to make money off of that..If I created something with these two hands, to sell to someone, I choose to ask what I spent on making it and a little time...no profit. I am just happy that I can help someone else out with a blaster or belt, or something... to help them do what I am here, trying to do.

    If I had wanted to make a profit...I would have ALOT nicer things...believe me.


    remember...for the children.

    ODYLE RULES!!!!

    Ok back on topic:
  11. firstsonofsolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2006
    star 4
    This is the ultimate point I was trying to get to. Please do not let me be misunderstood which I believe I am in this matter. I am STRONGLY against making money or profit from events, although I thought w3e did discuss selling pictures for travel, Anyways that does not matter. I do not want to see this group fall apart because someone is gaining capitol off of someone elses hard work. I have seen this done before in other situations and do not want to see it here.

    I am in fact still planning on applying for the 501st, but I DO NOT want it to overwhelm my new found friends here at TFF.

    So anyways my final plead is that we do not do things for a profit, kinda seems weird even as I read back it seemed that I was for it but the truth is I am not.

    I ill say this I do not have alot of money to throw at my costume but I am not flat broke either. I do know there are people out there that can not do these events without financial assistance which is where I was hoping to take this venture. Perhaps some more
    discusion at the next meeting as I have a few ideas that would be accepted by both groups!
  12. Jada Chapter Rep Charlotte, NC

    Chapter Rep
    Member Since:
    Apr 20, 2006
    star 6
    Reason number 1000000001000000000000011111111111011111 why BrotherHalo rocks! \m/ =D=

    I have no problem when we are doing something like we did for Katrina charging a $1 donation to <insert organization such as Red Cross> for the picture.

    However, for us to appear somewhere, I don't like to charge. We aren't clowns [face_clown] . . . for the most part and we are doing this out of the goodness of our hearts and the sweat of our buttocks.

    We can always raffle off a date with a Wookiee or Jawa if we need to raise money. [face_devil]
  13. hal9k1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 22, 2003
    star 4
  14. dialswiftjustice Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2005
    star 4
    **********THE TIME HAS CHANGED*******************


    NOTHING LIKE LATE NOTICE BUT THE TIME HAS CHANGED AND THE PARTY STARTS AT 6PM SO THEY WOULDNT WANT ME IN COSTUME UNTIL AFTER. Would anyone be able to go as a spotter? If nott hats cool, I told Manny how little i can see in the helmet.
  15. thatsMISTERwookiee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2005
    star 4
    You big flirt![face_love]

    :eek: [face_shame_on_you] :eek: [face_whistling] [face_shame_on_you]
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