Amph Black Panther (Wakanda Forever)

"Don't startle me, colonizer!"

 

B99: Would you say this is merely the best Marvel movie, or is it a genuinely good film (e.g., Superman: The Movie)? I ask because even a top-rated Marvel flick like Civil War still bored me to tears.

 

I am seeing this Tuesday I Cant wait!!! I have a really bad cold hopefully I can shake it before Tuesday But I am going sick or not I will just bring cough drops and take cough syrup before I go to the movie. and I will be sure to drink a lot of water...

 

So, according to headlines this was the Second Coming of marvel movies. Ok so, it's good. It's very good. But it's not the best Marvel movie.

The characters have a good banter/connection with the best being T'Challa's sister, Shuri.

The villain's view is not wrong, but became a monster in seeking his reckoning.

Spoiler

Cat People tree anyone? lol.

 

I hope to see early one afternoon next week, all depends on if I can get my assignments done or in first draft by Wednesday morning.

I intended to see it anyway because it looks fantastic, but

Spoiler: spoiler

T'Challa and Bucky post credits scenes - are definitely getting my butt in a seat sooner rather than later

 

BTTF2 reference for the win!

 

Forgot to add:

Spoiler

"Those who build walls are foolish." Hence, the dude on the council had his army who used forcefields shaped as walls.

 

yep caught that one as well....

 

Exactly this. It felt much more substantial than Ragnarok (which was a ton of fun), the most serious mcu film for a while - all 3 last year had more comedy.

I really enjoyed it, a terrific ensemble cast, the women all really shone (especially Letitia Wright), MBJ was an excellent as Kilmonger, and it was great to see Serkis having so much fun in his own face. I too felt there were a few cgi effects that let it down. Overall excellent and it's around my top 5 mcu movies, i need to watch it (and some others) again to judge that though.

 

I have to echo what others are saying...

1. Very good cast, especially the women and the antagonist (BP himself delivers and is good, but I think they could have added something more, just not sure what)
2. Definitely more substantial, not as Marvel-jokey
3. I agree with some pacing/CGI issues, but how good the rest of the movie was makes it very easy to brush those complaints aside

My favorite character was General Okoye, she was just pure awesome

I know not addressed to me, but in my opinion, it's a genuinely good film. It could have been stripped out of the MCU and do just as good, it stands on its own.
I hesitate to call it the best Marvel movie, but mostly because it doesn't feel like a Marvel movie. It feels like its own thing.
(also, I don't think Civil War was top-rated, most people thought it was worse than Winter Soldier)

 

I would recommend every one who liked the movie check out the soundtrack that Kendrick Lamar put together. It’s incredible but also makes for an excellent companion to the movie.

 

I missed out on the supposed second credits stinger (had to get up early the next day, and it was 1 in the morning) so what was it?

 

Spoiler: Black Panther final credits stinger

Bucky comes out of a hut in Wakanda and Shuri comforts him for a bit. He has his memory and possibly isn't crazy anymore. Not entirely sure how much is being implied and how much I'm just reading into it but it's possible Shuri and Bucky may be an item.

 

Awwwww

 

I definitely enjoyed it on the strength of is cast, its political message ("those who are foolish build walls" ftw) and some of the visuals (the cgi at the end got too distracting, IMO). But as a Marvel movie I just felt it was ok and even a by the numbers affair. I fail to see how Killmonger was the most compelling Marvel villain yet in the sense that, while I get his outrage at Wakanda and their inaction towards the suffering of black people across the world, the dude just felt like an angry kid with a huge chip in his shoulder.

At the risk of Wockying this up, regarding Wakanda and a real world context, one of the things that has always bothered me about is existence in the larger MU is that it does require a lot of suspension of disbelief seeing such an advanced society - tribal differences notwithstanding - with such resources turning a blind eye to the suffering of neighboring countries - especially South Africa, as a primary example - for decades or even centuries. And once they out themselves to the world, many of those same neighbors would ask T'Challa that question and he probably will not be able to offer any satisfactory answer. Steadfast isolationism and desire for self preservation might simply not be good enough for some folks.

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You realize during the height of colonialism Ethiopia threw back Italy, and had all rights to request territory in Eritrea and expand outwards but they chose not to. Sure they did not have future tech, and they went through long problems with their own reactionaries when dealing with modernization. Few id any countries blame Ethiopia for not doing enough. Any African nations particularly who had cohesive kingdoms mostly blame shortsighted and venial leadership, and European opportunism.

a More modern example is Arab countries blaming Oman for not assisting Yemen.

 

That is not at all comparable. Menelik II, like the Vietnamese at Dien Bien Phu or the mujahadeen against the Soviets, won by exhausting the morale of the broader public in a country that was otherwise much better resources, and theoretically capable of defeating them.

To imagine that prior to 1900, the “rights” of a non-European polity meant anything, or to calculate that an attempt to invade Eritrea would not have drawn some response is painfully naive.

That’s leaving aside your hilariously large caveat about technology, since things like the Gatling gun we’re among the single most decisive factors in the entire colonial conquest of Africa. Do you also want to criticize them by noting that “with the exception of not having discovered a vaccine, it is inexcusable that the Kingdom of Abyssinia never cured polio?”

Come on.

 

I’m not a Marvel fan generally. Superhero movies tend to bore me. I love GotG, but I’ve always viewed it as almost a SW satire, like if every character was Han Solo (which was an observation I read someone make at the time and it’s always stayed with me). So for me, it’s very easy to say that BP is my favorite Marvel movie. The only other one that I remember liking enough to watch multiple times was Ironman, but this felt so much better. I think it’s the tone that generally doesn’t interest me in Marvel. I liked the jokey nature of GotG, but I view that movie as more of a comedy or satire than a straight superhero movie. BP’s tone felt so much better. I loved WW for the same reason. I don’t think directors should be afraid of sentiment. Unless the jokes are really well done and subtle, humor in sentimental scenes makes a bit of the epicness feel lost and the stakes can go down to zero for me.

The other thing about Marvel movies is they’re often just not very interesting, hence forgettable. Ironman interested me because of the question of his responsibility as a scientist and arms dealer. I like themes that challenge my thinking. BP delivered on that. Who couldn’t relate to the villain here? Granted he ended up just kind of angry psycho-murderer (when he tried to kill Shuri I was like “uh uh, nope, time to kill this B” lol), but his story was compelling and sympathetic and caused me to genuinely question the hero. I dig that when it’s well done. Captain America and Thor movies, Antman, I think they’ve been mildly entertaining while I watched them, but yeah, I remember nothing about them.

 

Italians were defeated in the Battle of Adwa they were neither exhausted or demoralized. They took more land than they could hold, and Menelik stayed for a year in Addis Ababa before he responded to the Italian invasion. When the Ethiopians moved the Italian held no area they could effectively fortify. The one fort they did hold in Ethiopian territory, the Ethiopian knew its source of water which they cut off(Battle of Mekele). The Italian general was fooled by false reports of Menelik's number, and thought he had local support. Orest Baratieri officer corps pushed him to seek out the Ethiopians in open combat, to effect a better search the split their forces and stumbled onto the large single Ethiopian army which had settled in Adwa. The Italians had little effective communication attacked. Ethiopian forces met the separate Italian forces. Thus the italians faced the large Ethiopian force with little plan or coordination leading each italian force to be destroyed by the large Ethiopian in rapid succession.

This as not a Vietnam situation.

 

Is the soundtrack just the Kendrick Lamar/hip hop stuff or does it have any of the african traditional/original score on it? I tried to pay attention during the film but was a bit disappointed, I was kind of hoping for a hybrid of hiphop & african music, but it just seemed to be one or the other.

 

I also would like to state the Ethiopians had Hodgkiss guns, a rapid fire gun similar to Gatling guns, as they purchased them. A common colonial myth is that African kingdoms did not have rapid fire weapons or artillery despite Europeans selling weapons, and often trying to get a leg up on competitors selling weapons to non european poilties. the African polities simply lacked the ability of mass produce rapid fire arms and artillery.

Ethiopia's Hodkiss guns were of Russian sold.

 

At some point if RDJ retires from the Marvel films they could pull something right out of the comics. Well, he is still in the comics and probably always will be but there is a teenage genius black girl named Riri Williams who made her own suit and is a well done character.

Well, this movie gave us Shuri who they keep saying is smarter than Stark...