Blacklist Hollywood? Yes? No? Maybe so?

This is getting tiresome. Everytime you do something wrong or the party you support does something wrong, you try and justify it by saying "so what, so and so did something wrong and even if it's unrelated, who cares?"

YOu know, you are absolutely right, this got old a long, LONG time ago in the galaxy not so far away. I would throw out that you seem hell bent on going after the Bush Administration for things that were much, MUCH less then what the Clinton Administration does it, and when I draw attention to it, you cry and moan about it.

So lets see....basing my following hit piece off what Michael Moore is doing with his Farenheit 9-11 piece....I am going to make teh following statement.

1) Clinton's defense budget forced the massive drawdown in military readiness, including the deactivation of the only armor battalion in the 82nd Airborne Divison.

2) Clinton's drawbacks left task force Ranger in Somalia in 1993 severely undersupported with armor and air support for their missions.

So I am claiming that CLinton wanted the Black Hawk Down scenario to occur..he wanted US Troops to die at the hands of the Somali's. I believe his specific intent was the death of troops like PFC Todd Blackburn, a Florida resident, wanting troops like him gone so that they would be unable to vote against him or Gore in future elections.

The above has some history to back it up, so I guess under Michael Moore history lessons, the above must be true.


You see how stupid it is to give anything Michael Moore does any form of semblence or integrity? My little piece above, "US TROOPS DOWN" theory has more credibilty then Farenheit 9/11 does.

edit- I should also point out that Michael Moore claimed Bowling for COlumbine would deny Bush a second term back when it came out last October. Instead, we got the November 1992 midterm elections results, which of course, still brings a smile to my face......

 

Again TripleB, your post makes absolutley ZERO sense.

How does ANY of that, (and the black hawk down thing, please, please, stop. I never said Bush wanted 9-11 to happen, and your childish tantrums regarding Bush are just ridiculous.)

How does ANY of that justify YOUR LYING?

-The boldfaced lie about our own allies "hating us for our freedom and our power?"

Get real. You're just twisting the topic around so that you can justify your lies and propoganda. Moore can make any movie he likes, I have neither commented nor endorsed it, as it hasn't even been made.

Clinton was a good President, and a good majority of the 'cool stuff' we did to Iraq was implemented during his watch under his authority.

And finally, on the civility of politics, I directly blame the GOP (no surprise) namely Newt Gingrich and his crowd for the divisive tone in Washington. (TripleB, you gotta give me this one, even BUSH hates Newt.) I mean, think back when Reagan beat Carter. It was a tough campaign, but after it was over, Reagan was still a decent man. He treated Carter with respect, and he gave him the opportunity to welcome the hostages home. The election between Carter and Ford was perhaps one of the most civil elections of our time. Even when Clinton defeated Bush Sr., he dedicated part of his inaugural speech to thanking the former President for his half-century of dedicated work to America. But when Clinton got into office, from the very beginning, they didn't give Clinton even the slightest of grace periods, the radical right in the GOP took swipes at him for anything and everything. And without merit too, as Clinton accomplished FAR MORE Republican goals than Bush has accomplished Democratic goals. Clinton was a good President because he honestly tried to balance all the needs of EVERYONE in this country, not just a few special interest groups.

Honestly, YOU don't even believe Clinton wanted those troops to die. Why must you always counter any argument you don't like with bold-faced lies? Did I ever claim that Bush WANTED all those troops who lost their lives in Iraq to die? Did I ever claime Bush WANTED 9-11 to happen so that he could secure his imperial presidency? Honestly. Maybe Clinton lied about getting a bj from some slut, but why do you constantly lie about the attitudes and motivations of the other side?

What's wrong with you?

 

Honestly, YOU don't even believe Clinton wanted those troops to die. Why must you always counter any argument you don't like with bold-faced lies? Did I ever claim that Bush WANTED all those troops who lost their lives in Iraq to die? Did I ever claime Bush WANTED 9-11 to happen so that he could secure his imperial presidency? Honestly. Maybe Clinton lied about getting a bj from some slut, but why do you constantly lie about the attitudes and motivations of the other side?

What's wrong with you?

What he posted above was his vision of how Moore would revise history in those various cases (like Somalia) not his version on the actual history. I think the point of the post was to critisize Moore's past interpretation of history (and calling it a documentary), not disparaging the past government.

Although the way you two spar all the time, I realize that it could be easily confused.

 

Um, first, Clinton was not a cowboy but a respected intellectual and foreign nations respected us a lot more when he was President.

i thought it was clear that i was not calling clinton a cowboy. as far as respoect goes, i think you're totally wrong if you think the U.S. is a MORE respected country because of bill clinton. i'm not talking about policies here. the fact of the matter is clinton is known as a goofy lying weasel that the masses can identify with. not for some upstanding reputation. the U.S. enjoyed a lot of prosperity during his term. but respected? i think some do. but a lot of democrats don't feel that clinton left a legacy of respect.


And second, Bush was a cowboy, and 9-11 still happened without much of a hitch, so I think the notion that a 'cowboy President' scares our enemies into not attacking us is total bunk.

i never advocated that preventing attacks by terrorists was something curtailed by showing strength. but in terms of international relations with other NATION STATES, the idea i was using was one of percieved national strength and it's role in establishing peace by showing a willingness to undertake action. it's important. please read my words carefully and read the posts i leave in their entirety.

 

Ahh...I see, no party here can justify their own stupid notions of placing blame on people. Okay, well then I'll take it that it's a membership requirement to be childish. And the cons, here at least, seem to be far better and willing to place blame, than anybody else.

 

Madriver, you're right, but it doesn't excuse his charecterization of leftist governments 'hating our power and freedom,' the dumbest idea I ever heard about why our own friends oppose us.

And even from the Michael Moore point of view, you haven't even seen the film TripleB, it hasn't even been made. How do you know what he's going to say? And it's just his opinion. Why does it bother you so much?

Finally, no matter what, you can't justify someone's mistakes by constantly claiming "somone on the other side did something bad too." Half the time you compare totally incongruent examples of Bush and Clinton, and the other half, if Clinton did something wrong, and you said it was wrong then, you can't expect that to be your justification for Bush. If Clinton was wrong to dodge the draft, BUSH WAS ALSO WRONG.

It's like you believe that we should all just bow to the lowest common denominator. You blame Clinton for 'lowering standards,' but then you CHERISH and CRAVE those same low standards to justify your own President. You can't have it both ways.

 

Obi-Wan said

Again TripleB, your post makes absolutley ZERO sense.

It will make more sense then Farenheit 9/11. As will the cover of the National Enquirer that week. You are the one that brought up Michael Moore's new project, and I think all liberals, especially the anti-war crowd, deserve to share in his disgrace.

How does ANY of that, (and the black hawk down thing, please, please, stop. I never said Bush wanted 9-11 to happen, and your childish tantrums regarding Bush are just ridiculous.)

Again, you brought up Michael Moore's new project, and thus, deserve to take the fire for it. But I like the childish tantrum comment, though.

How does ANY of that justify YOUR LYING?

Lying am I, now? Well, please continue....

-The boldfaced lie about our own allies "hating us for our freedom and our power?"

Absolutely. France, all these left wing socialist nations HATE the power and freedom of the United States of America, especially while under the control of Conservitive administrations. YOu can claim it to be a badge of honor that CLinton is so respected by France, and Germany and New Zealand and the rest of them. I see it as a mark of shame on Clinton's part; just like I see it as a mark of honor that these country's hate President Bush so.

Get real. You're just twisting the topic around so that you can justify your lies and propoganda. Moore can make any movie he likes, I have neither commented nor endorsed it, as it hasn't even been made.

Lies and Propoganda, right. I did not say Moore can't make his movie, but I sure do believe that any who support Moore deserve to be exposed for parleying to a...well, I better not say what I really think about him. But I like how my opinions are always lies and propoganda, while your opinions are always factual and such. Lots of laughs there. COnsidering all the times you and Guinastasia and KaineDaimo have claimed I have no credibility on anything, it just is piss in the wind to me.

Clinton was a good President, and a good majority of the 'cool stuff' we did to Iraq was implemented during his watch under his authority.

Ah yes, like bombing Iraq just when an Impeachment vote is going down. Just like Clinton cutting the military the way he did at the beginning of his administration, of him committing the US military to all corners of the world even while evicerating it. That must be why during his administration retention within the military was so low, why people were walking out of it. Or how Team Gore tried to deny the military their right to cast votes in Florida of 2000....

Go aheand spin all you want, but this is not Clinton' s military.

And finally, on the civility of politics, I directly blame the GOP (no surprise) namely Newt Gingrich and his crowd for the divisive tone in Washington. (TripleB, you gotta give me this one, even BUSH hates Newt.)

OH, come now. Give BIll and Hillary and James Carville a little credit.....

I mean, think back when Reagan beat Carter. It was a tough campaign, but after it was over, Reagan was still a decent man. He treated Carter with respect, and he gave him the opportunity to welcome the hostages
home.

Yes, I remember that. Carter may have been the worst president in history, but man, he sure was a nice guy, wasn't he? I am sure the soviets and the Iranians were really impressed by that.

The election between Carter and Ford was perhaps one of the most civil elections of our time.

I have read on it, albeit not in a while, but it was before my time anyway.


Even when Clinton defeated Bush Sr., he dedicated part of his inaugural speech to thanking the former President for his half-century of dedicated work to America.

Ah, yes, of course. I love seeing how liberals on these boards do throw out praise to Bush Sr. Probably because Clinton could not have been elected if it were not for him.

But when Clinton got into office, from the very beginning, they didn't give Clinton even the sligh

 

Trip, once again, you take something I have said and bring in totally out there random points about things tangentially related that bother you.

And again, I never supported Moore's movie, and I have never seen one of his movies, and I did not comment on the validity of his movies, I have never endorsed him, or commented on him at all for all I can remember, as again, I have never seen his work. But I see just the very mention of someone who you don't agree with sends you in a tailspin of anger.

And what freedoms exactly does France, Germany, and whomever HATE that America possesses? What freedoms do we have that they don't? Honestly. I think the only thing they hate is that they feel the U.S. feels it can do whatever it wants and doesn't have to answer to anyone at all, or respect anyone at all.

And when did I say that you have to defend the actions of the EXTREME right? And since when has there ever been a president that has been as liberal as say Bush or Reagan has been conservative in the last 40 years? If you say Clinton, you would be wrong, as Clinton certainly over his 8 years has been one of the most centrist Presidents we've had in a while.

 

Its clear that Germany and France, as well as other useless freedom hating nations, are just jealous because America has more SUVs!

 

I would just say, Obi-Wan, since I have to head out, that you threw a lot of 'lie' comments out at me. Coming from a Clinton Worshipper and all the lies that they were known for, it doesn't impress much.

 

As opposed to a guy that thinks Clinton's the devil. When did he ever say he worships Clinton anyway??

I've read a review for X2 on the net that reminds me of the attitude of some of my favourite people here, and it also reminds me why i pay your views so little respect. Get this - one reviewer thought that X2 gave a very strong anti-Repuplican message, and another reviewer thought that X2 is a sign of homosexuals trying to take over hollywood! Think thats silly? I've seen some of you say pretty similar stuff.

 

Honestly. Maybe Clinton lied about getting a bj from some slut,

the problem isn't mouth love. the problem is the complete lack of honesty and the assumption that the people will just buy whatever story is told to them. a bj does not a slut make. but monica lewinsky is every bit as atrocious as clinton on a personal level for her hamming up her notoriety. she's taken her fifteen minutes of fame and then some.


And since when has there ever been a president that has been as liberal as say Bush or Reagan has been conservative in the last 40 years? If you say Clinton, you would be wrong, as Clinton certainly over his 8 years has been one of the most centrist Presidents we've had in a while.

the office of the presidency has become more centrist. it has evolved into a political role that both republicans and democrats have been forced into making concessions towards the middle. that's been a part of the presidency for quite a while now.


Its clear that Germany and France, as well as other useless freedom hating nations, are just jealous because America has more SUVs!

Escalade go brach.


As opposed to a guy that thinks Clinton's the devil. When did he ever say he worships Clinton anyway??

strange, but i think this is inferred, as i have yet to see anyone state that they literally "worship" anyone else (other than maybe God). and the devil is MUCH much more of a straight shooter (no pun intended)than clinton. he wouldn't waste his time trying to convince us all that he DIDN'T have oral sex.




I've read a review for X2 on the net that reminds me of the attitude of some of my favourite people here, and it also reminds me why i pay your views so little respect.


what......YOU pay other's views little respect? nahhhhh.......seriously, come on now.

 

I also read a review that says Spider-Man is PC crap because there weren't any black thugs in a particular scene.

 

wow! that's really interesting KD! you've got some great reviews of movies! maybe you could post a few for us?

 

KD said

As opposed to a guy that thinks Clinton's the devil. When did he ever say he worships Clinton anyway??

Neither of us said that. However, he will, for example, attack Bush's Vietnam record even though Obi-Wan unquestionably was one of those 'It doesn't matter if you never served' people when it was used against Clinton. Pure hypocrisy on his part. If he had bothered to read my responses, I address everything he brings up, but I guess his new spin on dealing with me is to go into the "Oh, your not answering me" and the "Your a Liar" spin. Pathetic on his part, as I normally expect more from him.

I've read a review for X2 on the net that reminds me of the attitude of some of my favourite people here, and it also reminds me why i pay your views so little respect. Get this - one reviewer thought that X2 gave a very strong anti-Repuplican message, and another reviewer thought that X2 is a sign of homosexuals trying to take over hollywood! Think thats silly? I've seen some of you say pretty similar stuff.

I thought Bryan Singer did that with X-Men1, at least stuff I saw him do on both parts of the movie as well as with the DVD, which is why I have not gone to see X-Men2. If singer want's to throw in his petty politics into his movies, then at least one person will not be watching them.

 

Found this online. Enjoy.

Who's Smarter? Hollywood vs. Bush Administration

A pertinent posting from the Internet and various mail groups:

The Hollywood group is at it again! Holding anti-war rallies, screaming about the Bush administration, running ads in major newspapers, defaming the president and his Cabinet every chance they get to anyone and everyone who will listen.

They publicly defile them and call them names like "stupid,? "morons? and "idiots.? Jessica Lange went so far as to tell a crowd in Spain that she hates President Bush and is embarrassed to be an American.

So, just how ignorant are the people who run the country? Let's look at the biographies of these "stupid," "ignorant,? "moronic" leaders, and then at the celebrities who are castigating them:


President George W. Bush earned a bachelor's degree from Yale University and an MBA from Harvard Business School; served as an F-102 pilot in the Texas Air National Guard; began his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy industry until 1986; elected governor on Nov. 8, 1994, with 53.5 percent of the vote. In a historic re-election victory, he became the first Texas governor to be elected to consecutive four-year terms on Nov. 3, 1998, winning 68.6 percent of the vote, with 49 percent of the Hispanic vote, 27 percent of the African-American vote, 27 percent of Democrats and 65 percent of women. (Someone began circulating a false story about his I.Q. being lower than any other president's. If you believed it, you might want to go to URBANLEGENDS.COM and see the truth.)

Vice President Dick Cheney earned a B.A. in 1965 and an M.A. in 1966, both in political science; two years later, he won an American Political Science Association congressional fellowship; chief of staff to Gerald Ford (at age 34) from 1975-77; six-term Republican congressman from Wyoming, 1978-89; secretary of defense to President George Bush, 1989-93; CEO of global energy conglomerate Halliburton.

Secretary of State Colin Powell was educated in the New York City public schools, graduating from the City College of New York (CCNY), where he earned a bachelor's degree in geology. He also participated in ROTC at CCNY and received a commission as an Army second lieutenant upon graduation in June 1958; received MBA from George Washington University.

Secretary Powell was a professional soldier for 35 years, during which time he held myriad command and staff positions and rose to the rank of four-star general. His last assignment, from Oct. 1, 1989, to Sept. 30, 1993, was as the 12th chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the highest military position in the Department of Defense. During this time, he oversaw 28 crises, including Operation Desert Storm in the victorious 1991 Persian Gulf war.

Before becoming secretary of state, Powell was chairman of America?s Promise - The Alliance for Youth, a national nonprofit organization dedicated to mobilizing people from every sector of American life to build the character and competence of young people.

His awards include two Presidential Medals of Freedom, the President's Citizens Medal, the Congressional Gold Medal, the Secretary of State Distinguished Service Medal, and the Secretary of Energy Distinguished Service Medal. Several schools and other institutions have been named in his honor and he holds honorary degrees from universities and colleges across the country.


Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld attended Princeton University on Scholarship (A.B., 1954) and served in the U.S. Navy (1954-57) as a naval aviator; congressional assistant to Rep. Robert Griffin, R-Mich., 1957-59; U.S. Representative, Illinois, 1962-69; assistant to the president, director of the Office of Economic Opportunity, director of the Cost of Living Council, 1969-74; U.S. ambassador to NATO, 1973-74; head of Presidential Transition Team, 1974; assistant to the president, director of White House Office of Operations, White House chief of staff, 1974-77; secretary of defense, 1975-77.

Mr. Rumsfel

 

TripleB, whats the message in the X-Men movies your opposed to exactly? The idea of tolerance and acceptance of those that are different? That message was carried with the first X-Men comic book from the very first issue. I mean, in politics intolerance typically comes from far-right Republicans. They're hardly gonna have a liberal hippie in these movies showing his hatred of those that are different.

 

I thought Bryan Singer did that with X-Men1, at least stuff I saw him do on both parts of the movie as well as with the DVD, which is why I have not gone to see X-Men2. If singer want's to throw in his petty politics into his movies, then at least one person will not be watching them.

I'm confused, how was the movie in any way political? (besides the obvious tolerance issue).

 

Even the politician in the first movie isn't shown to be either a Republican or a Democrate. Stryker in the second movie is a general, so his political affiliation isn't shown. And nowhere in the movies is the President's political affiliation mentioned. It makes you wonder if indeed TripleB has any idea what he's talking about, if he himself even knows what it is he objects to concerning the X-Men movies.

 

Probably not. Give him a lesson, Kaine.

 

Kaine said

TripleB, whats the message in the X-Men movies your opposed to exactly?

OH, I don't oppose the message in X-Men, which I believe is tolerance and acceptance regardless of backgrounds. My opposition was in Byran Singer throwing his political slant at us during a movie that I was genuinely looking forward too.

The idea of tolerance and acceptance of those that are different? That message was carried with the first X-Men comic book from the very first issue. I mean, in politics intolerance typically comes from far-right Republicans. They're hardly gonna have a liberal hippie in these movies showing his hatred of those that are different.

Addressed above. Democrats and far left wingers are just as politically intolerant as any one else out there, and I have found left wing liberal democrats to be far more discriminatory against those who don't think like them. Just remember historically that it was REpublicans that passed the Civil Rights acts of the 60's over the Democrats back then.

Even the politician in the first movie isn't shown to be either a Republican or a Democrate.

Techniclaly you are right, yes, but he goes farther in defining both sides in the DVD version, and he also made a lot of hints during the movie on certain issues. If I had not seen the DVD, I probably would have been OK overall with the movie, but he had to throw his political slant into the DVD.

Stryker in the second movie is a general, so his political affiliation isn't shown.

I thought STryker was Canadian, at least that was my memory from the comics. LIke I said the last time you brought up comics, I have not REALLY read in a long time.

And nowhere in the movies is the President's political affiliation mentioned. It makes you wonder if indeed TripleB has any idea what he's talking about, if he himself even knows what it is he objects to concerning the X-Men movies.

Like I said, my only problem with the X-Men movies is what the Director of that Movie did.

I won't deny I was not that big of an X-Men fan growing up (I primarily collected Captain America, SpiderMan, Thor, Iron Man, The Avengers, the West Coast Avengers, Fantastic Four, Silver Surfer, The Invaders, so I will say I do have a wealth of comic book knowledge that I believe is not to far from yours, even though I got out of them in the mid 80's. My brother was a huge X-Men fan, and I did read his X-Men, X-Factor, New Mutants, and was all into the Mutant thing, though.

 

Talk about intolerance. I haven't even noticed this supposed political slant that you have boycotted a movie over. I just cannot take a man like you seriously. Sorry.

 

Kaine said

Talk about intolerance. I haven't even noticed this supposed political slant that you have boycotted a movie over. I just cannot take a man like you seriously. Sorry.

Is that not the definition of Freedom of Choice. I saw it, and it is of no suprise you have not seen it. Did you see the DVD version of the movie. Maybe I was being over reactionary to it, as year 2000 was the most contested election ever and I was being more aware of this sort of thing. But I feel Bryan Singer did try to imply his politics, and I have been hearing from several places that he does it again in X-Men2.

And according to you and OWM, I never have any credibility so why would this suprise you?

 

I do indeed have the DVD version. Are you referring to the extra bit where Senator Kelly is making his case before a bunch of judges? I'll have to watch that again to see what you mean.

Anyway, i think you should watch X2 yourself before you judge whether or not it has a political slant. The only thing i can think of thats even remotely close to a bias political slant is the scene where Bobby "comes out" to his parents. But even that is hardly political.

 

Kaine said

I do indeed have the DVD version. Are you referring to the extra bit where Senator Kelly is making his case before a bunch of judges? I'll have to watch that again to see what you mean.

It was that, and it was just also the 'not so subtle' features and things in the DVD and movie that I am refering to. THe parts that you probably will refuse to see.

Anyway, i think you should watch X2 yourself before you judge whether or not it has a political slant. The only thing i can think of thats even remotely close to a bias political slant is the scene where Bobby "comes out" to his parents. But even that is hardly political.

Addressed above. I got to see THE MATRIX2 last night and was blown away by it, but I feel that maybe I should give X2 a shot, but when I hear people claim there is a political slant in X2 is a reason not to see it