Blacklist Hollywood? Yes? No? Maybe so?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by TripleB, Mar 4, 2003.

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  1. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Describe these 'not so subtle' features and stuff, please.
  2. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    Indeed. The "not so subtle" stuff that I saw was all anti-bigotry. Must've hit a nerve to see TripleB all defensive ;)
  3. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    I'd have to go get it on DVD to be specific, which I am not going to do. I believe that Byran Singer tried to throw his political views into this movie, which I think stunk, and as such, has earned MY decision not to support his work in the future. Period. It has been 3 years since I have seen it, and based on my life experience where I see the Left responsible for the things I see you claim the Right responsible for, and it becomes MY DECISION and nothing you say will change that.
  4. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    "...and it becomes MY DECISION and nothing you say will change that."

    Suddenly, I'm reminded of a small child plugging his ears and saying "lalalalala! I can't hear you!"

    C'mon now B! Surely, if there was something about the movie that you hated so badly that you're boycotting the sequel, there has to be something that you recall vividly enough to try and recount. I'm sure that between the rest of us, we just might be able to pool together enough brain power to know what scenes you're talking about...
  5. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Tut, tut, tut. See, your whats wrong with the political discussions here, my friend. You go into these debates with an incredible high and mighty, moral highground attitude. You and others like you automacically assume you have won an argument, you have no respect for the otherside of the argument, no respect for other people with different views, and you feel that you don't have to back up anything you say. People really seem to think that liberals have nothing worthwile to say, and others think that about the right wing. I have to wonder why your so intolerant of other views. I have asked you, time and again, what exactly is it that Brian Singer has implied in X-Men 1 and 2 (you haven't even seen 2!) that you find so offensive?? You can't even tell me that! I'm to believe by your word alone that Brian Singer isn't to be respected, but you won't tell me why. You, my friend, are the definition of whats wrong with America. You wave a banner of freedom but its freedom that you seem to be fighting against. A director has left wing views?? Pfft, never gonna watch his movies again!! Like the saying that Christianity would rock alot more if more Christians were anything like Christ, America would be one heck of a place if more people actually practiced the belief that you live in the land of the free. Being free doesn't mean being free to boycotte movies because you don't like something an actor said regarding so and so a political issue, being free means you can sit down and enjoy a darn good movie regardless of what anyone involved in the movie believes, what their background is, and what they like to do in their private lives. Thats freedom. Thats tolerance. Your living in chains, TripleB.
  6. Madriver Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2003
    star 3
    Being free doesn't mean being free to boycotte movies because you don't like something an actor said regarding so and so a political issue, being free means you can sit down and enjoy a darn good movie regardless of what anyone involved in the movie believes, what their background is, and what they like to do in their private lives. Thats freedom. Thats tolerance.


    The first part is freedom, the second part is being open-minded and being able to separate politics from entertainment.
  7. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    I think the first part is misusing freedom. Its a waste of freedom. If you don't like someones politics, you don't vote for them. If a person is in a position of politics, its your right to speak out against them, or speak out for them. But people with TripleB's attitude... it seems they make and dump friends based solely on political positions, they decide to boycotte movies over the political views of an actor or a director, whether the movie even has anything to do with politics or not, the same with musicians. Its a waste of freedom. And such a high level of social waste is only present in America. What i can only describe as underlying fascism, that will possibly grow, and eventually destroy freedom!
  8. yodashizzzle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003
    star 4
    Tut, tut, tut.

    when did we start a discussion on egytptian kings?

    I think the first part is misusing freedom. Its a waste of freedom.

    who are you to direct what is a wasted freedom and what's a valid use of freedom? some people would consider argueing points on the internet a "waste of freedom." if someone who is an actor takes a political stance and people don't like that stance and make decisions accordingly, who are YOU to say that that's a "wrong" thing to do? politics gets mixed in with everything (along with sex). if someone isn't open minded, that's probably pretty self evident upon getting to know the person. but if someone has a problem with an actor or musician doing/saying something, then the very fundamental point of freedom is to be able to do or not do whatever we choose for whatever reasons we see fit.

    typically, people don't become friends with folks who are polar opposite AND close minded to boot. but plenty of people i know fight like cats and dogs over sports, politics, religion or other issues, yet they don't feel like they are "not friends" with them. blacklist celebtrities? why bother? but exercise individual decisions based on what a person might say or do? it happens everyday in real life to all people. celebrities love to be right about issues, but they can't stand it when people thumb their noses at them for being snobby know-it-alls.
  9. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Well usually being free implies believing in freedom and just not caring. I have no pity for people who base their whole social life on politics, which a lot of right-wingers seem to love to do. Not saying that the left is any better, but I generally do not see leftist leaning folk basing their life on politics. It's kind of sad and pathetic.
  10. yodashizzzle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003
    star 4
    I have no pity for people who base their whole social life on politics, which a lot of right-wingers seem to love to do. Not saying that the left is any better, but I generally do not see leftist leaning folk basing their life on politics. It's kind of sad and pathetic

    it's kinda funny. the right-wingers AND the left wingers like to call each other sad and pathetic. yet they both advocate a sense of political activism and social responsibility to the point that the seriousness with which they take things borders on the laughable. in that respect, both ends of the political spectrum seem to be running neck and neck. true equals.

    it's also strange that a large part of those REALLY laid back folks who took the time to march/protest seem to put an inordinate amount of time into things political. curious, isn't it?
  11. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    it's kinda funny. the right-wingers AND the left wingers like to call each other sad and pathetic. yet they both advocate a sense of political activism and social responsibility to the point that the seriousness with which they take things borders on the laughable. in that respect, both ends of the political spectrum seem to be running neck and neck. true equals.



    Well you could never accuse me of this, I hate protestors, and I hate people who base everything on personal politics. Hence why I find people like this to be sad and pathetic. ;)



    it's also strange that a large part of those REALLY laid back folks who took the time to march/protest seem to put an inordinate amount of time into things political. curious, isn't it?


    You're right, it is funny, let the uptight snobs who boycott every damn thing protest. They probably would, but the hippies got this territory covered. I find people who get offended over little things to be very stupid, firstly, grow a thicker skin, and secondly, shut the hell up let the people who don't get offended, enjoy themselves. That's my advice to protestors/boycotters.
  12. yodashizzzle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003
    star 4
    You're right, it is funny, let the uptight snobs who boycott every damn thing protest. They probably would, but the hippies got this territory covered. I find people who get offended over little things to be very stupid, firstly, grow a thicker skin, and secondly, shut the hell up let the people who don't get offended, enjoy themselves. That's my advice to protestors/boycotters.

    yeah, but what may seem little to someone else might seem important to you. and vice versa. i think most people have a reasoneabley thick skin. it takes thick skin to function in the world. but the problem isn't protesters. it's inconsistency. people like to have their cake and eat it too. crying and moaning about how unfair things are and then applying all their energies towards whatever benefits themselves. then they complain about how selfish the world has become. and some people are just never gonna be happy.
  13. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
  14. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    FireIceDeath said

    You're right, it is funny, let the uptight snobs who boycott every damn thing protest. They probably would, but the hippies got this territory covered. I find people who get offended over little things to be very stupid, firstly, grow a thicker skin, and secondly, shut the hell up let the people who don't get offended, enjoy themselves. That's my advice to protestors/boycotters.

    So...those commuters back in 1954 Montgomery, Alabama were wrong to have boycotted the Public Bus system over there?
  15. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    So...those commuters back in 1954 Montgomery, Alabama were wrong to have boycotted the Public Bus system over there?


    Bah! They were fighting for a real cause, what are you fighting for? Oh, I'm sorry, celebrities disagree with you. See, I differenciate between now and then, you see, now, there's a select few things that are actually considered noble, like equal rights for homosexuals. Or more rights for children, or to keep abortion legal. Those are real fights that you need to fight. Boycotting a movie because someone that's in it doesn't share your sense of politics is just insane, and childish.

    "OMG!!!111 The celebrity disagreed with me!!!111" you know celebrities are people too, they obtain their wealth and fame because believe it or not, some actually work for it. And they do have opinions, misguided as some may be, they still have them. To claim that your view is better than theirs and that their opinion is contemptable, is laughable. Look, if you'll turn on a celeb because they voice their opinion, then you obviously weren't a fan. They don't need you, and you probably won't be missed. Now it's your right to 'boycott', but don't get offended when people laugh at you for your inability to differenciate entertainment from real life.
  16. JediBeowulf Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 6, 2001
    star 3
    This thread is quickly approaching the zenith of redundancy, with people debating the semantics of what "Freedom" is.

    And no, i'm not talking about what the definition of "is" is.

    While i'm sure many of you here will try to spin the following assertion to your advantage, it doesn't negate the validity of the statement: that is, that freedom works all ways and not just in selective cases. I find the double-standard in the arguments of some here to be quite humorous --> i.e. an "artist" is free to say and do whatever they want (which is true), but the consumer is *not* free to choose not to buy an album from that artist, for whatever reason. If the artist has any business sense, then they would understand that they are there to provide the proper service to their consumer. It's called Capitalism and Commercialism. If these are the type of artists that don't give a damn about money or prestige and are in it solely to express themselves and make a statement, the so be it - they can face the consequences of their actions fully knowing what may happen as a result. However, if these artists are dependent on their fan-base for their livelihood, and then make a certain segment of their consummer-base angry by something they say or do, then they should be ready to face the consequences. Going on to a Diane Sawyer show and crying about how unfair life is once you've done something to irk your fan-base is quite pathetic.

    Lastly, could it possibly be that the outspoken artists represent the same views of those same people who are criticizing the boycotters? I think so...
  17. KaineDamo Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2002
    star 5
    Charlton Heston. I hate the guy's politics. I think he's a raving lunatic that doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, and i vemenontly disagree with his stance on gun control. Am i about to boycotte Planet Of The Apes?? Heck no!! Planet Of The Apes is a damn fine film. His politics suck it, but he's a talented actor. It would be a complete waste for me to be so incredibly intolerante of an actor's view on a subject that i actually go out of my way to avoid their movies.

    Unless the movie itself is political in nature, boycotting a movie because you don't like an actor's political view is nothing short of intolerant. Sure you have the freedom to do it, but it IS intolerant. TripleB can't even tell me what view it is of Brian Singer's he objects to.
  18. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    Kaine,

    I gotta agree with you on this one to some extent. While I think it's self-defeating to publically and vocally boycott someone's art because you disagree with them politically, I think sometimes there's a valid point to be made. I'm sure there are people out there that avoid Heston's stuff for that simple reason - they find his politics disagreeable. It just hasn't made headlines because it isn't an organized protest. It doesn't have to be organized to have the same effect, however. I've had people personally do all kinds of uncomfortable things to me because they didn't like my religion, much less my politics. So I can sympathize with the stars who are being publically ridiculed for their politics. It boils down to what is most important - a matter of priorities. If religion isn't that important to you, you won't have cause to harrass a person on the basis of their religion. Some still do harrass others on the basis of their religion because they don't feel religion is viable, to them there is cause to harrass the religious person, even though religion is not a high priority for them. It becomes a high priority simply because they want change. Some harrass others on the basis of religion because they are a different belief and want them to share their ideaology. But most folks, who do harrass, harrass each other because they want some kind of change.

    And both sides of this issue are guilty of doing the same exact thing. Neither owns the moral high ground in this regard. But both want change and will do what it takes to make that change possible, including condemning and criticizing each other. Protesting each other's decisions.

    Where the rub comes is your availability to a public platform where you can influence vast amounts of people. The typical Dixie Chicks concert is going to have several thousand more attendees than a church service in Texas, so the possibility of influencing your audience is much greater and more profound because your audience also happens to admire you. Multiply this by all the other liberal movie and musical stars, their films and music, and you've got 24-7-365 attitude adjustments, brought to you in your car, on your radio, on your cd player, your dvd player, on your tv, in the books you read, in the art you see, and in the newspaper. The average citizen doesn't have this option. They are not viewed as stars, music icons, the educated elite, or the crusty upper class. Their opinion is only as valuable as their ability to make their voices heard, which is not possible to the same extent as a public figure. Thus they organize, just as the peace movement organized in the 60's, to get their point acrossed.

    [Edit: I should add that alot of people in the US are concerned about our political situation in the world at home and abroad. They see our current leadership as the only thing between them and another 9-11. They are backing the horse that will bring them the most protection. The Dixie Chicks can't do that. Their agenda doesn't promote homeland security. In fact, it works in opposition to it by bolstering the opinions of our enemies that even our own icons think we deserved our punishment on 9-11 because our politicans and our politics, suck. ]

  19. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    ...still waiting to see what it is about X-Men that TripleB hates...
  20. Obi-Wan McCartney Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 1999
    star 5
    I never thought of it, but the boycotter is the right-wing armchair version of the good ole fashioned hippie protest on the left!

    I am ok with both forms, although the protest is more fun, although I myself never participate in either forms of expression.

    I certainly wouldn't stop myself from watching a Mel Gibson movie or one of Chuck Heston's old flicks. Heck, I'd even tune in to watch that old Gipper movie if it was on.


    Some people can't help seperating politcs from real life. Politics, 80% of the time, is just a big pissing match, a crazy game with lots of players and even more rules. Every now and then the stakes get so huge that it actuallty affects people and then the players really have to be on their toes, but generally it's just a bunch of dreamers tossing the ball around.

  21. yodashizzzle Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2003
    star 4
    for the first time in a while, Obi-Wan-McCartney, i totally agree with you.
  22. TripleB Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 4
    Your going to be waiting for a while, Jedi Murkirian, becuase I would have to watch the movie again to tell you what it was that pissed me off/Irked me atout the movie...and since I will not watch the movie again, it makes it redundant.

    Why don't you vote Republican, and then if you don't like, vow to never vote that way again?

    Don't throw it at me though, cause I voted for Clinton Twice and even voted mostly democrat in the 98 election and have repented my mistakes on that.
  23. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Wow...that was an...interesting dodge.
  24. Undomiel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 4
    I enjoyed the X-Men. I had a bit of a problem though with the fact that wonderful actor who played Gandalf, was Magneto! I can barely stand seeing Gandalf as a bad guy. Great FX though. Nightcrawler's effects were amazingly well done. I didn't like seeing Wolverine get thwomped and I didn't like seeing him thwomp a female either. I thought it was inappropriate and silly to have our superheroes threatening our president with parental oversight. lol. But other than that, I liked it. :D
  25. Goldenboy62 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2002
    star 2
    First off acting is a job, it doesn't necesariy follow that they aren't informed. What bothers me is the fact that the media gives more credence to their views than the average Joe on the street. Unless they have some special expertise in a given situation their opinion is just one of many. It's akin to the media's penchant for sticking a mike in Spike Lee's face when something happens in the black community. Spike's director, why would you want his opinion on the Beltway sniper's except for the fact that he's black and a celebrity (in that order)?

    Now for those who say that you don't consider actor's outside of their profession, what is your opinion of Ronald Reagan?
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