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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Chic, IL Bleh

Discussion in 'MidWest Regional Discussion' started by Bosh_Talk, May 5, 2006.

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  1. darthgoat

    darthgoat Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2001
    New or old?

    And it is screen-accurate bitch!
     
  2. DarthAstuart

    DarthAstuart Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    dartha=teh lame.
     
  3. darthgoat

    darthgoat Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2001
    Don't you forget it!

    For the record, prop collecting is a very different animal from general SW collecting. The items are much higher priced so a lot more thought has to go into a purchase. When common items go for $300 Joe SixPack collector is not going to be buying every version of the Skywalker saber that is released by MR. They'll likely buy one and call it a day.

    I've only ever bought the same prop or costume piece as an upgrade or to replace a broken piece. The parts that have been upgraded have been sold to pay for the upgrade so often times I have paid zero to upgrade.
     
  4. DarthAstuart

    DarthAstuart Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    i understand all that.

    what I'm saying is that someone who is into making and buying screen-accurate (got it that time!) movie props isn't really in a position to judge people who buy five greedo figures.

    it's a sliding scale, but we're all on it.
     
  5. darthgoat

    darthgoat Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2001
    I disagree with you but you do realize that the more people buy 5 Greedos the less pressure there is for LFL to actually release something GOOD right?
     
  6. JediAutobot

    JediAutobot Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 3, 2000
    Based on past history, I would say that when people don't buy SW LFL doesn't make anything at all. There were plenty of years when there wasn't ANY SW items. The interest in the toys and comics petered out, and instead of trying to revive interest with cool stuff, they let it die.

    I am not saying that anyone should buy SW stuff for this reason, I think it would be stupid to just buy stuff because you are 'saying future toys'. I think people should buy what they like, some people like props, some people like figures. Some people like to get anything speeder bikes, some like the high-end Sideshow.
     
  7. Bobafemme

    Bobafemme FF Jedi Council Member, Chicago IL RSA Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2000
    I'll buy another Greedo when he comes with actual suction cup fingers and wriggling snout action.
     
  8. Bosh_Talk

    Bosh_Talk Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2000
    OK, admittadly I'm saying that if you don't buy what I (Dave Gray) thinks is cool, then you're a sucker. However, I still deny saying that "collecting = sucker". I am talking about Hasbro in particular here. I'm saying that their marketing department is brilliantly "working" their consumers and many of their consumers are readily getting "worked"; this equates to (mostly) sub-standard products IMHO. Hasbro's goal is maximizing profits, not getting the best line of Star Wars merch out on the pegs.

    I remember the first bit of it was during the Orange Carded figures with the short-packed Leia's and Stormtroopers and the stupid internet rumor that the pure white plastic needed to make them was rare/expensive. And then there was the whole thing of the rare figures with longer saber blades and Fett with a different print on his glove...etc. etc. And nothing contributed to the irrational "fever" of SW collecting than the short-packing of Darth Maul with the initial issue of the Episode One figures. How brilliant was that. We either scoured the stores for 3 months or paid $40.00 for one at Ebay. No matter what, Hasbro wins, and not from just making toys that people wanted, but playing an unfair game of cat n' mouse. And hey, I'd be a hypocrite to say that I didn't get swept up into it. Anyone else pay $75.00 more than the retail price for a Qui-Gon & Eopie because no one could get it on this side of the Atlantic (thanks to MrShiny for the hook-up back in '99).

    If I recall my toy history correctly, Kenner was poorly managed in the late eighties and their Star Wars line, without any new movies, was failing. The Ewok/Droid line failed miserably despite the cartoons and made for TV movies (hence there are so few of those products and they're now worth a mint). Kenner was bought out by Tonka who was bought by Hasbro (a very agressive company with one of the the best teams on Madison avenue). I'm sure they had no idea that their plan to release a limited set of Star Wars re-issues was going to be their most successful line, but they had acquired an expensive license they had no intention of wasting it.
    Two things contributed to the Star Wars collecting madness in the late nineties that made Star Wars collecting huge: First of course is the release of the SE's, and the second thing was ebay. Geeks+Internet+Collecting=Cha-Ching!

    So, to sum this up, a rhetorical question....if over the next 10 years Hasbro releases 7 more Greedo figures on top of the 4-5 they already have (and we can even say that the 10th anniversary Greedo has suction cups and wiggly snout). Would youa agree that 12 issues of Greedo is ridiculous? The answer has to be:
    a) No, because you can always build a better Greedo worth buying.
    b) Yes, 12 is Friggin' ridiculous...but 6...well that's reasonable.

    I say either answer comes from a sucker who's more in love with "collecting" than what he/she is actually putting their dollar vote towards. I don't care if you derive your collecting pleasure from a $4.99 plastic figure or a $699.00 limited edition lightsaber made from mil-spec fighter-jet aluminum, buy what you really want, not what they tell you you want.[/rant]


    Bosh

    "Dan, there's a difference between childlike and childish."
     
  9. nalan1138

    nalan1138 Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Mar 2, 2002
    I have just one thing to point out, LFL isnt making any of this stuff, Hasbro, Master Replica's, Sideshow, Code 3, etc. etc is, LFL are not the ones saying "Hey make a new greedo", somone at hasbro is. All of these companies pay for the right to produce Star wars related items. And since these licence's cost money, they want to maximize their ability to profit from them. So if hasbro decides to make a new greedo, I highly doubt they have to get permission from LFL to make another one, they do it because they have the licence to do it. I realize that Georrge is getting a cut of anything that is produced, but he isnt the brains behind the marketing and manufacturing. And I know the the Lucasfilm Licencing department isnt calling up anyone to tell them to make another Tatooine Luke.
    And as far as the fervor for paying 75 bucks or whatever for a piece that was only made overseas, I wouldnt think that Hasbro is all that happy about it, they would much rather sell it for 20 bucks and put the money in their coffers, rather than some ebay jerkstore scalper.
    I personally collect both the low end and high end stuff, and as Goat pointed out, buying the high end stuff does take a bit more thought, 500 bucks for a sidewhow 1/4 scale Vader causes me to pause (not long) before i buy it. I however dont hesitate to buy a $7 figure. Or a $45 gunship. Mainly because collecting makes me happy. IF they make 20 greedo's I will buy every single one of them, but i dont open a lot of my stuff, and I like to see all 20 greedo's side by side in different packaging.

    I dont think what dave said came off (to me) as collectors=suckers, but I do see his point, more so after I just bought 12 figures this last week that were all exactly the same figure as last year, just in different packaging. But i think why they re release figures is for new kids getting into star wars, a 4 year old last year may just now get into playing with SW figures, and they only want the main characters. I just sold carrie a 3 pack clone wars animated series figures, and she told me her nephew would be thrilled since it had a greivous in it, and since he got into it, they hadnt released a General Greivous figure.
    And yes if I stopped collecting, I would have a ton of money left over every year and I could do lots with it. But I worked my way up the corporate ladder so i could afford to have a huge collection, and if collecting ever started to affect my lifestyle, I would stop. But then again, i could just sell the whole lot and buy some real estate (or i could just set it all on fire and collect the insurance, since I am one of those paranoid collectors who doesnt want to lose my 27 years worth of plastic and not get paid)

    Damn, I had a reason for writting this, now i forgot, I wish people wounld't call me while I am posting, makes me get all off track.[face_frustrated]

    Oh and is this a flame war?????? I have never been involved in one, and if this is, I need to put it in my scrapbook. :D
     
  10. Bosh_Talk

    Bosh_Talk Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2000
    You know, after reading Scott's post, I think I have to say I agree...Dan really is a jerk. You've made that perfectly clear. Well, that's what I took from it. That's what you meant right? Maybe I'm way off base.

    Seriously though, I'm not against anyone spending their money on whatever makes them happy...I just want to reserve the right to laugh at you.

    Also, I actually think Lucas Licensing is much more involved in the decision making process of what goes out to the stores. If you've had chats with the Hasbro toy guys at the cons, they kinda clam up and roll their eyes when you press them about the top-down management and decision making...which I took to mean that the marketing pukes as well as the LFL people (aka the bean-counters) are more in control of how many Greedos we see relased.

    Bosh
    "Oh, it's all right. I'm sure that we can handle this situation maturely, just like the responsible adults that we are. Isn't that right, Mr... Poopy Pants? "
     
  11. DarthAstuart

    DarthAstuart Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    first off, let's be clear: LFL signs off on everything. EVERYTHING. I would bet my left foot that someone at LFL signs off on every figure decision, every figure made, etc. That's what a license is all about--it's rarely, if ever, a piece of paper that allows the rampant sale of whatever the licensee wants. so it's at least indirectly their fault, especially becuase they over see all the slices of the pie.

    bosh, you talk about buying stuff "just to collect it," which shows you didn't read my original post AT ALL EVER NOT EVEN A WORD OR TWO. Buying stuff "just to collect it" is the POINT. some people enjoy collecting stuff. there are lots of reasons to enjoy it. there is more than a little bit of obsessive compulsiveness about it for most.

    (still got that $75 qui gon and eopie there dave? you BOUGHT that crap?! and you're ADMITTING it?! and you paid THAT MUCH for it?! and you can still claim to have some kind of high ground on this so you can judge those who buy five greedos? fifty thousand greedos would not excuse you paying that much for ANY piece of episode I merchandise.)

    some enjoy displaying the items. some stack them in boxes in their garage. some buy to create a collection of monetary value, others just like the stuff. some collect the high-end, and some collect the low.

    so there's lots of reasons to collect, but at the end of the day, we collect to COLLECT. it's all about all of it. you can't say collecting to display action figures is more "sucker" than collecting to have every star wars figure. otherwise we'd just buy stuff that may or may not make up a grouping of similar items, and we wouldn't care when new stuff comes out, and we'd all not be virgins anymore.
     
  12. Bosh_Talk

    Bosh_Talk Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2000
    I do read your posts, do you read mine? Once again, since I started this thread it's been about Hasbro and collecting Hasbro and how it's my opinion that collectors who aren't being discerning about their purchases are just giving Hasbro more license to make what is in my opinon, reissued, repackaged, unoriginal cocaine. Once again, I'm not slamming people for collecing Hasbro, Master Replicas, stamps, ceramic Indian figures, wheat pennies, but I am saying caveat emptor to anyone who's going to let the marketing department dictate to you what your tastes and desires are regardless of what you collect.

    But hey, thanks for the encyclopedia entry on "Why People Collect"....very informative. If you're defending collecting as coming from a personality disorder, then yeah, I guess there's no rational reasoning with that. However, I don't necessarily agree that even most collectors have OCD.
    Yes, I do still have the Eopie, but I gave Hasbro up after Episode II except for a couple of the convention figures due to disgust. Sure there was plenty to get disgusted from long before EPII, but I was an addict. Also you quote me as saying something about buying stuff "just to collect it"...are you sure you're debating with the right person? Are you even in the right message board?

    Bosh
    "Still, old friend. You've managed to kill everyone else, but like a poor marksman you keep missing the target."
     
  13. darthgoat

    darthgoat Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2001
    KHAAAAAAAAANNNNN!!!!
     
  14. DarthAstuart

    DarthAstuart Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    did you or did you not write this just a few posts ago?

    i take "more in love with collecting" to mean buying stuff "just to collect it"...which, again, is ultimately THE POINT OF COLLECTING SOMETHING.

    i feel like I'm being told the sky is green by an insane person. it's BLUE. look at it.

    that's fair. except I don't remember reading a post from anyone here explaining that they buy what they buy because Lucasfilm/Hasbro/Satan tells them to. people seem to buy things for a variety of reasons, many of which fall under the umbrella of "i collect things."

    YOU seem to be confusing "collecting" with "blindly drinking LFL's kool-aid." which is why I've felt the need to edumacate you on what collecting IS, since you don't seem to get it.

    matt
    "why, you green-blooded, INHUMAN..."
     
  15. darthgoat

    darthgoat Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2001
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  16. Fett402

    Fett402 Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 3, 2005
    I really hope you found that somewhere on the internet Goat...cuz if you did that yourself you have waaaaaaayyyyyyy too much time on your hands.
     
  17. darthgoat

    darthgoat Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2001
    You think I have that kinda patience?
     
  18. Bosh_Talk

    Bosh_Talk Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 29, 2000
    I'm moving my portion of this discussion to the CF boards so I can 'splain things so that Dartha can understand them...you know, abusively....like in his childhood...
    Here if you really really care.

    Bosh
     
  19. Schph_Gochi

    Schph_Gochi Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 17, 2002
    I collect:
    what I want
    when I want
    if I want

    If someone wants to laugh...
    go right ahead..
    if it makes you feel good...
    do it...
    It won't change my life one bit...nor alter the way I do things...

    It is more than slightly arrogant to think that one persons
    "view" of things ...
    whatever that "thing" may be
    is the only correct view...
    [face_talk_hand]




     
  20. Lt_Dak-Ferris

    Lt_Dak-Ferris Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 26, 2003
    Wow.

    A jerk, huh.

    Congratulations on another superior diss. Mama must be proud.

    On-topic: I agree with Dartha that you're on a very slippery slope there goat. That's like an alcoholic looking his nose down on someone addicted to cocaine. Whoops, another drug reference to be edited.

    Dan
    "I know the difference between childish and child-like. I'm still trying to figure out how that connects to anything I wrote."
     
  21. darthgoat

    darthgoat Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2001
    Not slippery at all.

    You need to stop being in denial of the fact that you will be ANYTHING with the Star Wars logo on it.
     
  22. Lt_Dak-Ferris

    Lt_Dak-Ferris Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 26, 2003
    You don't even know what kind of a collector I am.
     
  23. darthgoat

    darthgoat Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 6, 2001
    I know exactly what type of collector you are:
    http://boards.theforce.net/chicago_il/b10152/23526423/p1/?6
    http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=18095501&brd=10152&start=19575645
    http://boards.theforce.net/chicago_il/b10152/11813058/p1

    Like I said on the real CF boards. Collect what you want but you are ruining it for those of us that want something new out of this stuff and you are also devaluing your own stuff.

     
  24. Lt_Dak-Ferris

    Lt_Dak-Ferris Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 26, 2003
    How is that "buying anything with a SW logo on it"? I only buy the 3 3/4" figures and vehicles. I don't buy all that stuff either. I open all my stuff, so I pass on anything that has been previously issued.

    As I said on the CF boards, if you are buying toys and caring about their re-sale value, then you are collecting for the wrong reason. If I cared about making money off my toys, I would feel the way you do and not want another Greedo ever made, even if they can make a better one. Even if that means that when kids discover the films, they can't find figures of their favorite characters.

    I really bristle at the idea that by buying action figures that I think are cool I am ruining collecting for "the rest of us", as you put it. I don't think you have the right to judge me and my collection, which again, I don't think you even understand.

    I am curious, how would you change Hasbro?
     
  25. Lt_Dak-Ferris

    Lt_Dak-Ferris Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 26, 2003
    I'm not sure how closely you read my want list, but you'll notice that the Heroes & Villains line isn't there . . . that's 12 figures I'm passing up. You won't find the Ultimate Galactic Hunt figs either . . . that's another 10 I'm not getting.

    Even if I did buy those, there aren't enough people buying the re-issues to "ruin collecting". The majority of those re-issues are bought by kids.

    However, if it really means that much to you, you can always stand in the aisle at Target and yell at the 10 year old for buying Darth Vader. You can scream at him that he is de-valuing your collection, that you are losing money.

    I think you would be quite good at it.
     
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