Blue versus Blue Duel

As this thread is now on it's 93rd page, I think we'll all have to agree to disagree!

I think there is a fair amount of evidence which points either way, and at the end of the day I think we will all argue for what we want to see! I for one have no desire to see Darth Vader with a red lightsabre. I don't think the film needed it, and I like the idea of leaving it until Episode IV to find out if Darth Vader can still use a lightsabre. With regard to pre-suited Darth Vader fighting with red, again, I think the film doesn't need it, and aesthetically, as I've pointed out above, two blue sabres look better.

Supporting the argument about no lightsabre (please don't ask me to provide links - I'm doing this from what I hope is a decent memory), I thought that the insiders who are leaking information have said that he does not use a red lightsabre, as well as Pablo (I don't have Hyperspace, so I'm just following what's here). The pictures we've seen so far have involved blue, and with regard to qui-gon-kim about Anakin holding Obi-wan's light sabre, Anakin is holding Obi-wan's wrist - not his actual sabre (I think - will have to rewatch it). Also, as we've seen footage of the two of them fighting outside blue v. blue, I find it unlikely that they will return inside again afterwards. I think the duel will then stay above the lava.

Everyone who has made an argument for a red lightsabre has valid arguments (I'm not repeating them, as I don't hold them ), which can all be seen above. And come 19th May, one side is going to be posting in the humble pie thread started a few weeks ago!

...could involve him giving the red saber (pre-made) to Anakin just beforehand. Then, Anakin leaves with the intent of doing the right thing by telling Mace, but he cannot forget the words about eternal life.
In response to that, please ask yourself, irrespective of what you want to see, is this really good story telling? Does anyone other than us obsessed fans posting on boards and discussing it in long posts (like this!) care how Anakin gets a red lightsabre, or whether he fights with it? I think the answer is no, for it does not enhance the story at all. The only time I can conceivably see Anakin having a red lightsabre will be in the duel, but for reasons discussed above, I think it unlikely.

I eagerly await Motee's promised report about the duel on Mustafar, and hopefully it will end all this intense speculation which has been going on this thread for the last few months!

Possibly my longest ever post!

P.S. I love this thread - it's been consistently one of the more interesting ones since it was started!

 

It's for marketing purposes only - it gets everyone going with a bit of hype.

I know it's for marketing. I realize that. What I don't understand is that if you are going to market Anakin with a red lightsaber, why not have him use one in the movie since red does symbolize the Dark Side and he has joined the Dark Side at that point and has taken on the name of Darth Vader.


Remember how shocked everyone was in 1983, when Luke ignited a green lightsabre rather than the blue on on the film poster.

I wouldn't go as far as shocked. Anyway the reason why Luke had a blue lightsaber on the poster is because Luke was originally going to use a blue lightsaber.

 

does he already have the report about Mustafar, and if so, why doesn't he just go ahead and release it?

 

^
I think he said that he would post it in the next few days.

Motee likes to tease us a bit, and to be honest, it's better this way, otherwise we'd have nothing to talk about!

 

does he already have the report about Mustafar, and if so, why doesn't he just go ahead and release it?

You could ask why he doesn't release all of it at once. It's a slow process to keep us interested longer and gives us something to look forward to.

 

Talk is cheap. I don't want to talk. I want action.

JK

It all feels like a slow mind ****.

 

I know it's for marketing. I realize that. What I don't understand is that if you are going to market Anakin with a red lightsaber, why not have him use one in the movie since red does symbolize the Dark Side and he has joined the Dark Side at that point and has taken on the name of Darth Vader.

I take your point and agree, but my opinion is that it is simply to draw the disillusioned fans back into the cinema. Anakin uses a blue lightsabre to kill the Jedi in the table, and clearly uses a blue sabre for a fair part of the duel (see the teaser trailer, and that hyperspace .gif). I think at the end of the day, I think he hasn't got space in the time period to obtain one, and would find it really contrived to whip one out.

*EDIT* I was going to correct my amusing mistake, but on second thoughts it sounds amusing...

 

I think he hasn't got space in the time period to obtain one, and would find it really contrived to whip one out.

That's an invalid excuse if I ever heard one. Reason being is because Lucas has never established how long it takes to make a lightsaber. If Anakin doesn't have time to make a lightsaber before the suit, he doesn't have time after, yet we saw Vader's hilt in display. See what I mean? This no time to do it crap if you think about it.

 

If Anakin doesn't have time to make a lightsaber before the suit, he doesn't have time after, yet we saw Vader's hilt in display.

As far as I'm aware, the shot where you see Vader's hilt is when Palpatine, Tarkin and Vader himself are viewing the Death Star construction. As we've seen nothing to indicate that the Death Star is being built during the film, I would assume that this scene is some months, if not years later.

The spoiler on MF.com says that you can already see that there is a spherical shape, which suggests work has been going on for some time.

 

It is symbolic that Anakin uses a blue saber because blue on blue is exactly what it SHOULDN'T be! Once Anakin becomes more machine than man he loses his compassion and Darth Vader is born.

 

Once Anakin becomes more machine than man he loses his compassion and Darth Vader is born.

Darth Vader was born before the suit. Here is a hint, Padme's death.

---

[i]As we've seen nothing to indicate that the Death Star is being built during the film, I would assume that this scene is some months, if not years later.[/i]

Star Wars doesn't go "years" later. You're just speculating for excuses.

 

Symbolically, he loses his compassion when he becomes more machine than man. That is when Vader is truly born, and that is after the duel. Lucas has said this.

 

Symbolically, he loses his compassion when he becomes more machine than man.

I'd say he lost his compassion when he sold his sole to Sidious and murdered coutless innocent people, including his own wife and took on the name Darth Vader.

 

This is the stupidest thread. I can't believe people actually care.

 

The pictures we've seen so far have involved blue, and with regard to qui-gon-kim about Anakin holding Obi-wan's light sabre, Anakin is holding Obi-wan's wrist - not his actual sabre (I think - will have to rewatch it)

Look at the shot where Obi-Wan is on the floor (Anakin's face is NOT shown). Obi-Wan is CLEARLY holding Anakin's saber.

 

Star Wars doesn't go "years" later. You're just speculating for excuses.

Course I'm speculating - that's all I can do I take your point that Star Wars doesn't go years later, but it can take place over weeks. A lot of people believe that the events in Episode V took place over a number of weeks, if not a month or so (there was a thread on this months ago in this forum, when someone was arguing over the time period of Episode III, where this was discussed). Also, the montage at the end of Episode VI was thought not to be immediately after Endor. The fact that there is this shot at the end of the film suggests that a reasonable period of time will have elapsed since Obi-wan is left on Tatooine. I would argue that it's logical to suggest that Palpatine could not have begun Death Star construction before he became Emperor, since:

a) the star systems would oppose it; and
b) he needed the Jedi out of the way to stop it being opposed.

We've not had any spoiler to indicate that Death Star construction begins during the film, so on the basis of currrent information, I would maintain that this is sometime after the last shot of Obi-wan. Given that Vader 'helps the Empire hunt down the Jedi', he would obviously need a lightsabre, which he would, as I see it, construct after being bound up in the suit by Palpatine.

Vader is also 'sabre-less' after the duel, so it is logical he would spend time constructing a new one.

However, as the current timeframe goes before this shot (on the basis of spoilers), I don't think Anakin is going to be making a red lightsabre. The reasons for this I've posted above, so I won't repeat them.

I am eagerly awaiting Motee's spoiler on the duel, and if he confirms that there is indeed a red lightabre, I will eat the big slice of humble pie. But at the minute, although finely balanced, I think the balance tips in favour of there being no red lightsabre.

*EDIT*qui-gon-kim

I never noticed that! And I'm dead confused now, even to the point of starting a new thread . Must... resist... urge..

What really confuses me is that in the next shot Obi-wan is holding his own sabre. Therefore, unless Lucas had made an über-cock-up, Obi-wan does indeed get Anakin's sabre during the duel (and not just at the end).

However, I still think that once they are outside, they are likely to stay there, rather than go back in again (No basis for this - just my own feelings on the flow of the film).

I suppose that could mean that Anakin could toss his lightsabre aside and ignite a red one, but why would you do that? You don't just toss your weapon aside if it is working.

Why would Obi-wan not be using his own sabre? Where would that be?

Is the next shot from sometime else in the duel then? It just looked like it was a natural switch of camera on the trailer.

I'm off to bed now anyway, since it's getting late across the pond , but I eagerly await answers in the morning!

 

I would argue that it's logical to suggest that Palpatine could not have begun Death Star construction before he became Emperor, since:
a) the star systems would oppose it; and
b) he needed the Jedi out of the way to stop it being opposed.

Here's a quote from the AOTC audio commentary.

"We added this sequence, and because we added it, I came up with the idea of adding a little schematic of the Death Star in here because the Geonosians build robots and build things they?re sort of construction workers, they would be the ones that are contracted to build the Death Star."
--George Lucas


Do you really think the Geonosians care for the Republic's permission? Ask yourself this, would the Death Star be public knowledge? No.

A New Hope Opening Crawl

It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire.

During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire's ultimate weapon, the Death Star, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet.

Pursued by the Empire's sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy....


Vader is also 'sabre-less' after the duel, so it is logical he would spend time constructing a new one.

How much time does it take to make a lightsaber? Tell me!



I don't think Anakin is going to be making a red lightsabre. The reasons for this I've posted above, so I won't repeat them.

I never said he would. I'm just saying it's stupid to promote Anakin with a red lightsaber if he's not going to use it. If it's because of symbolism, then he should be using it during the movie for "symbolism".

 

Look at the shot where Obi-Wan is on the floor (Anakin's face is NOT shown). Obi-Wan is CLEARLY holding Anakin's saber.

Yes, it?s Anakin?s saber:

[image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/brian_stic/AniObiChoke.jpg] [image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/brian_stic/AniObiChoke2.jpg]

But, what does this have to do with the end of the duel? This scene takes place at the start of the fight.

Overall, I still have not seen any concrete evidence to support a second red saber. All the leaked promo pic?s and film stills indicate blue versus blue.

[image=http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v258/brian_stic/AniObiPromo.jpg]

 

"I suppose that could mean that Anakin could toss his lightsabre aside and ignite a red one, but why would you do that? You don't just toss your weapon aside if it is working."

Cuz it's Star Wars and not every decision makes sense.

Good guys have blue and green. Bad guys have red - George Lucas (somewhere on the AOTC DVD)

It's a visual symbol for the average movie goer. NOT for the average Star Wars fan like us.

BLUE vs BLUE. BLUE vs RED. (Although keep the humple pie hot, cuz I may need a giant slice)

 

But, what does this have to do with the end of the duel? This scene takes place at the start of the fight.

Actually, the wide shot of Obi-Wan and Anakin has Obi holding his own saber, but the close up shot (from the teaser) he's holding Anakin's saber.

 

It's an editing error.

 

I believe Anakin might have his red lightsaber, because if you go to just the facts Anthony Daniels says thins....

"Hayden's acting and portrayal of Anakin turning to the dark side amazes me. And to see Hayden wielding a lightsaber ("or three") is a treat. The audience will get goosebumps when they see the portrayal and betrayal by Anakin."

So there is a possiblity he does have a red lightsaber, or he could be using another jedi's saber, we all know he uses Dooku's saber when he kills him, personally I don't think if he does have a red lightsaber he will use it, but I mean we dont know Cyborg Vader could get some action, Rick McCallum has said Anakin will not use a sith saber but I mean didnt Rick McCallum say Yoda won't use a lightsaber in the prequels and yoda has used one in AOTC and will use one in ROTS

 

Here's a more detailed pic of the ROTS video game:

http://img183.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img183&image=rotsbox0lh.jpg

Take a close look at Obi-Wan.

OBI-WAN IS HOLDING ANAKIN'S LIGHTSABER!!!

Since it's proven from the teaser that Obi-Wan gets ahold of Ani's blue saber, I'm positive that this is when he whips out his red saber.

And before you blue vs blue people say "But Anakin is shooting lightning!" Obi-Wan's ANH saber is iconic and very well known. I believe that Anakin's saber was DELIBERATELY put there and not an error.

 

It's not unreasonable to assume that during the duel, both men drop their sabers and Obi-wan picks up Anakin's. They then switch at a later point, which then leaves us back to the status quo. Then we end with Anakin dropping his blue saber and Obi-wan running off with both.

 

That boxart clearly shows Anakin with his Vader saber and Obi-Wan with Anakin/Luke's saber.

Add two and two together.