Boba Fett, Jaster Mareel, and this Episode II SPOILER

Discussion in 'Literature' started by chissdude10, Aug 23, 2001.

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  1. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    "I had a Troll once, it had pink hair, then I burned it with a welding torch, It was fun"
  2. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
  3. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    <<Let me ask you guys a question. What are you gonna do if Boba Fett's history can't be "worked out"?
    >>

    Probably burn a troll.

    <<Here's the list of why these books are not canon (or why they suck):
    >>

    We're off to a good start...

    <<Bounty Hunter Trilogy: Boba died in the sarlacc pit damn it!
    >>

    ...and escaped. And that's not the first source to explain that. It began with Dark Empire, was expanded in the Dark Empire Sourcebook and was then novelized in Tales from Jabba's Palace.

    <<Shadows of the Empire: For one it steals so much stuff from the original trilogy. Secondly if something like this happened we would have heard about it in the RotJ starting roll-over. Very fake indeed. >>

    ROTJ came out in 1983. SOTE in 1996.

    There's a difference between stealing and inspiring. What exactly did it copy that's so inexcusable? And did TPM do the same thing?

    <<Truce at Bakura: The chances of the rebels receiving an Imperial message from a planet in trouble seems starnge. Especially since a lot of imperial stuff was destroyed. The chances of them receiving it the day after RotJ is just impossible. Also if they wanted to help one planet out at a time, they would have started with Endor instead because they needed to get rid of the Ewoks. >>

    That's an intelligent way of putting things. [/sarcasm]

    <<X-Wing Series: There is nothing to impossible about these. The best I can say is that the Imperials wouldn't have been able to have this many battles after their huge loss at Endor.
    >>

    Yeah, those 1 million Imperial planets and 25,000 Star Destroyers just inexplicably blew up and the Imps threw off their military uniforms and dumped them in the nearest incinerator.

    <<Courtship of Leia-Honestly, winning a planet in a card game? I don't think so. >>

    One X-wing destroying a Death Star? I don't think so. One Naboo N-1 destroying a Droid Control Ship? I don't think so....

    <<Thrawn Series-All of the 5 Thrawn books are now useless thanks to the fact that clone wars will be nothing like they are in these books. Also Leia has twins. Sound familiar? >>

    The Clone Wars never occured in these books, and never directly said what the ones in the past were. As it is, they link up perfectly with the film Clone Wars in AotC perfectly, from what I know of spoilers.

    And Leia having twins...gee, must be plagerization of Episode III huh?

    <<Jedi Academy Series (and I, Jedi)- The force is not detected by whether or not you have a blue aura. It is detected by midi-chlorians. >>

    What if it's both? What if the Force-detector reads signs of midi-chlorians?

    <<The 2 Humbly Novels-The odds of this crap happening are pretty good. If you change everyone out of character. Example: Luke loves those dead women Also they spend too much time involving those little Han-Leia kid things. >>

    Opinions on books don't make crap a fact.

    <<Darksaber: Most of this comes from the JA trilogy. Still I have the Essential Chronology. Just take a look at that picture. That is a good enough reason why it is not canon.
    >>

    LFL thinks it's canon. Are you suddenly not believing them?

    <<The New Rebellion: Once again you could just look at the pictures in the chrono and see why. >>

    Kinda like how I look at your posts and know "why"...

    <<The Black Fleet Crisis: Supposedly half the book is about Luke trying to find who his Mom was. She is not anything close to who she really is.(This one just might take the cake)
    >>

    I guess you haven't read the trilogy then. Akanah lied.

    <<The Correlian Trilogy: Corellia is being ruled by one evil man. Han's half brother! The chances of this are the same as someone saying Pauly Shore is Shakespeare >>

    About the same chances of you not making sense.

    <<The New Jedi Order: Tons of your favorite made-up characters are back. Including the very boring Mara Jade. Yes, She marries Luke. Sure she married the same person she wanted to kill earlier but hey this is the EU we are talking about. Also this series main attractions are the solo-organa kids! Watch
  4. Cowboy_Jedi Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 2
    NJO has it's bad points, just like the movies and everything else in life. But, I do like it. It gives readers fresh material without there being 90 cloned Palpatines running around.
  5. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    Why'd you even bother addressing those points ,Sturm? :p
  6. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
  7. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

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    star 5
    Ok, putting aside the pointless debate that has arisen, and trying to get back on the subject...

    Exactly WHAT is wrong with Fett going to Concord Dawn AFTER AOTC? From what I hear, Fett isn't that old in AOTC, so it should fit nicely. Where is the problem?

    TC
  8. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    There is no problem. Some people seem to think there is though... ?[face_plain]
  9. darth-skycrawler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 2
    The main thing that annoys me about the EU is that Vader is treated with no respect. The emperor is shown to think of him as no threat. Mara Jade speaks of the Empeor being able to hear Vader offer Luke the tnrown. The Emperor then chops of his right hand after the destruction of the first death star.

    There is not one reference to him being the chosen one and the son of suns. The fact that he is the son of suns seems to be common knowledge since it is shouted out on Coruscant and Naboo(don't say Luke is the son of suns because he was not even alive then).

    The fact that the Solo kids are compared to Vader is the height of stupidity since there is yet little proof on how heridtary the force is.

    The EU goes against the films because if you asked Lucas who was more powerful Obi Wan or Anakin in ANH in 1978 he would have answered Obi without any hesitation the EU writers would then make Obi Wan more powerful than Vader. Now things have changed and the EU is contradicted since Anakin is the most powerful force user in the galaxy.

    Another example is that Lucas planned for their to be other jedi but eventually he thought it would be better if Luke was the last jedi left.

    Lucas also changed his mind about the empire collapsing in ROTJ and then had the scene with alll the celebrations. The Eu was also here again was right at the time and then later changed.

    Lucas also actually changed the time of when the clone wars was going to occur because he realized that Anakin was going to have to be 40 when Leia and Luke were born and this would not make him the young jedi Lucas imagined. Zahn was not wrong but Lucas changed his mind.

    A final example is that Red leader was going to have known Luke's Father and was going to alllow Luke fly on his fathers reputation alone. Lucas then changed this idea so that He would not be tired to anything in the prequels.

    Please don't reply with fixes because i know you have your theories about how they could be fixed. They may work, but you can not deny the fact that the EU material without a care in he world by Lucas was dismissed. EU writers can only write consitent stories after all he films are made or they will continue to have things changed.
  10. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    "The main thing that annoys me about the EU is that Vader is treated with no respect. The emperor is shown to think of him as no threat. Mara Jade speaks of the Empeor being able to hear Vader offer Luke the tnrown. The Emperor then chops of his right hand after the destruction of the first death star."

    Well, the Emperor is such a nice and trusting guy in the first place...and, being self-appointed Emperor of the Galaxy and all...he has the right to look down on Vader, his apprentice, however he wants.

    "There is not one reference to him being the chosen one and the son of suns. The fact that he is the son of suns seems to be common knowledge since it is shouted out on Coruscant and Naboo(don't say Luke is the son of suns because he was not even alive then)."

    That's because for most of the EU the prophecy wasn't know, and GL likes to keep his little "secrets." This doesn't prove aything. The EU is not about Vader.

    "The fact that the Solo kids are compared to Vader is the height of stupidity since there is yet little proof on how heridtary the force is."

    My father had it, I have it, my sister has it.

    "The EU goes against the films because if you asked Lucas who was more powerful Obi Wan or Anakin in ANH in 1978 he would have answered Obi without any hesitation the EU writers would then make Obi Wan more powerful than Vader. Now things have changed and the EU is contradicted since Anakin is the most powerful force user in the galaxy."

    When did the EU make Obi-Wan more powerful than Vader? In the ANH novel, Obi-Wan was listed as last and greatest of the Jedi Knights, but then, Vader wasn't inclued in that order at that time. And are you claiming to know what GL would have said 20 years ago?

    "Another example is that Lucas planned for their to be other jedi but eventually he thought it would be better if Luke was the last jedi left."

    Huh?

    "Lucas also changed his mind about the empire collapsing in ROTJ and then had the scene with alll the celebrations. The Eu was also here again was right at the time and then later changed."

    Yes, there were celebrations when the Emperor was killed, and then the Stormies came out and quieted that down quickly enough.

    "Lucas also actually changed the time of when the clone wars was going to occur because he realized that Anakin was going to have to be 40 when Leia and Luke were born and this would not make him the young jedi Lucas imagined. Zahn was not wrong but Lucas changed his mind."

    Yes, but thankfully Zahn never explored the Clone Wars in any great detail so there are only a few minor date references to be corrected and no major errors.

    "A final example is that Red leader was going to have known Luke's Father and was going to alllow Luke fly on his fathers reputation alone. Lucas then changed this idea so that He would not be tired to anything in the prequels."

    Yes, this was in the novel. Who said that he didn't fly with Anakin in the clone wars?

    "Please don't reply with fixes because i know you have your theories about how they could be fixed. They may work, but you can not deny the fact that the EU material without a care in he world by Lucas was dismissed. EU writers can only write consitent stories after all he films are made or they will continue to have things changed."

    It may be that Lucas dismissed it, but he also used it. He was in large part responsible for the stories of SotME and SotE, and actually incorporated several elements of EU into the films. And just because he doesn't make sure to reference it doesn't mean that it can't still fit.
  11. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    He's also reponsible for alot of the TotJ stuff.


    "Another example is that Lucas planned for their to be other jedi but eventually he thought it would be better if Luke was the last jedi left."

    Yoda to Luke:

    "pass on what you have learned."

  12. Matthew Trias Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
  13. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    <<The main thing that annoys me about the EU is that Vader is treated with no respect. The emperor is shown to think of him as no threat. Mara Jade speaks of the Empeor being able to hear Vader offer Luke the tnrown. The Emperor then chops of his right hand after the destruction of the first death star. >>

    The movies set it up that way, especially in ROTJ. Vader is all but a slave to the Emperor, both in mind and body. The books merely expanded on this information. As it is, Vader himself has been directly portrayed in only a handful of novels, specifically Shadows of the Empire, which is from his point of view a lot of the time. I felt that Steve Perry wrote Vader perfectly and captured the essence of who he is and how it all led up to ROTJ.

    <<There is not one reference to him being the chosen one and the son of suns. The fact that he is the son of suns seems to be common knowledge since it is shouted out on Coruscant and Naboo(don't say Luke is the son of suns because he was not even alive then).
    >>

    1. The Chosen One prophecy has not yet been defined as the same thing as the Son of the Suns, which is only in the early drafts of ANH.

    2. "Son of the Suns" is shouted in TPM and ROTJ:SE, but that does not mean anything as of yet, because Lucasfilm has not officially confirmed it.

    3. Luke is not the Chosen One. This has been known since 1999, and if anyone thought this, they need to get up to speed on their info.

    <<The fact that the Solo kids are compared to Vader is the height of stupidity since there is yet little proof on how heridtary the force is. >>

    Where is this referenced?

    <<The EU goes against the films because if you asked Lucas who was more powerful Obi Wan or Anakin in ANH in 1978 he would have answered Obi without any hesitation the EU writers would then make Obi Wan more powerful than Vader. Now things have changed and the EU is contradicted since Anakin is the most powerful force user in the galaxy.
    >>

    I don't know of any source that says Obi-Wan is more powerful than Vader, because that would go against the duel scene in ANH. Could you please elaborate?

    <<Another example is that Lucas planned for their to be other jedi but eventually he thought it would be better if Luke was the last jedi left. >>

    Luke is not a Jedi until the end of ROTJ. Also, this line is in the radio drama of ANH, a prime canon source...( paraphrasing )

    Ben : "We are not alltogether alone in this universe, you and I. But I doubt we can expect help from others of our kind."

    <<Lucas also changed his mind about the empire collapsing in ROTJ and then had the scene with alll the celebrations. The Eu was also here again was right at the time and then later changed. >>

    Nothing changed. The Empire only collapsed in storytelling terms, as a bookend to the 6-part series of films. In reality, it did, and would have, existed for many many years onward.

    <<Lucas also actually changed the time of when the clone wars was going to occur because he realized that Anakin was going to have to be 40 when Leia and Luke were born and this would not make him the young jedi Lucas imagined. Zahn was not wrong but Lucas changed his mind. >>

    Somewhat correct. But the Clone Wars dates were fixed.

    <<Please don't reply with fixes because i know you have your theories about how they could be fixed. They may work, but you can not deny the fact that the EU material without a care in he world by Lucas was dismissed. EU writers can only write consitent stories after all he films are made or they will continue to have things changed. >>

    I'm not replying with my own fixes. I'm replying with what already existed.

    But yes, as new films are released, some things change. But always for the good.

  14. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

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    Jan 31, 2001
    star 5
    This whole line of discussion is pointless. It's a FICTIONAL universe. Not everything needs to fit exactly. Whether or not you like it is irrelevant. The expanded universe is, and always will be, just more stories in the same FICTIONAL universe as the movies. Lucas wants this. Why? Because it makes more money that way, and it's a good way to keep interest alive in the films. That's all it is, no more, no less. We like it, we buy it, they get more money, everyone's happy.

    And if someone STILL isn't convinced, there is no point in arguing over it.

    >"A final example is that Red leader was going to have known Luke's Father and was going to >alllow Luke fly on his fathers reputation alone. Lucas then changed this idea so that He would not >be tired to anything in the prequels."
    >
    >Yes, this was in the novel. Who said that he didn't fly with Anakin in the clone wars?

    I always wanted him to be Kitster. That'd be cool.



    TC
  15. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
  16. darth-skycrawler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 7, 2001
    star 2
    Lucas was trying to explain why Vader did not use the force to fling things at Ben like he did Luke Lucas then said that Vader was a 4 in force level and Ben was a 6.
    I am just saying that Lucas changed his mind. Iam not even saying the EU is wrong just that Lucas has changed his mind before.
    I was also talking about the movie. Lucas cut the scene about rogue leader speaking about Vader because he was not yet sure if this could happen. Now however with the way things are going in the prequels that line may be added. My whole point is that things ae moving towards Anakin Skywalker being the most powerful jedi of all time.
    No doubt the EU can fix it i am just saying the stories would have been better if they had waited till the saga could be complete.
    When people say that the Eu did not mention the chosen one prophecy yet because they did not know about it they are prooving my point. The EU could have been better if they had all the information.
  17. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    <<Lucas was trying to explain why Vader did not use the force to fling things at Ben like he did Luke Lucas then said that Vader was a 4 in force level and Ben was a 6.
    I am just saying that Lucas changed his mind. Iam not even saying the EU is wrong just that Lucas has changed his mind before. >>

    I don't see anything changed. Ben became more powerful when Vader killed him.

    <<I was also talking about the movie. Lucas cut the scene about rogue leader speaking about Vader because he was not yet sure if this could happen. Now however with the way things are going in the prequels that line may be added. My whole point is that things ae moving towards Anakin Skywalker being the most powerful jedi of all time.
    >>

    He is the most powerful Jedi. He is the Chosen One.

    <<No doubt the EU can fix it i am just saying the stories would have been better if they had waited till the saga could be complete. >>

    First of all, there is nothing to fix. Second of all, there was 16 years between ROTJ and TPM. Episode III will be released in 2005. Do you think the fans, or Lucas, would wait that long to have their SW fiction? No. It's to build interest between movies for many fans, including myself.

    <<When people say that the Eu did not mention the chosen one prophecy yet because they did not know about it they are prooving my point. The EU could have been better if they had all the information. >>

    Dark Empire came out in 1991-92. Lucas didn't even start writing TPM until 1994. As it is, it DOES NOT CONTRADICT ANYTHING.

    I don't understand your logic.
  18. chissdude10 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 5
    Ok ive lost track of this thread someone please explain what its evolved into!
  19. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    Canonists vs. Completists war.

    Or

    LFL Continuity vs. Personal Continuity war.
  20. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Someone waving a handful of straws versus someone with a lightsaber.
  21. TalonCard •Author: Slave Pits of Lorrd •TFN EU Staff

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    >Lucas was trying to explain why Vader did not use the force to fling things at >Ben like he did Luke

    Well, there's an easy one. There wasn't any thing in the corridor or docking bay he COULD throw at Ben, aside from the stormtroopers. ;)

    >No doubt the EU can fix it i am just saying the stories would have been better >if they had waited till the saga could be complete.

    That's true, but it would be ridiculous for them to wait twenty-odd years. It's doubtful that, without the EU and other SW merchandise, Lucas would have been able to make the prequals what they are. And, on the other side of things, the movies might have been better if Lucas had planed out every detail in advance. Furthermore, this is irrelevant to your arguments.

    >When people say that the Eu did not mention the chosen one prophecy yet >because they did not know about it they are prooving my point. The EU could >have been better if they had all the information.

    Right. But this does not make sense from a businessman's point of view, and they are the ones controlling the EU. And, again, this is irrelevant to your arguments.

    TC
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