Bolsheviks on the JC? Or, the Have's and the Have-not's strike again.

Discussion in 'Communications' started by Wattowatta, May 6, 2002.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Wattowatta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2000
    star 4
    Friends, moderators, fellow members-


    I?m certain we can all remember the time we joined TheForce.net?s Jedi Council. I recall entering a vast trove of Star Wars-fandom, with people from all walks of live uniting in common cause. Of course, that was two and a half years ago, and things have changed quite a bit-mostly a constant enlargement of the boards and populace-but the sense of awe has always predominated the psyche of many new members as they enter this spectrum of science-fiction appreciation.

    However, very quickly after joining, the wide-eyed fawn of a member is corrupted into a cruel, conniving serpent of jealousy. We have seem many things on the Jedi Council to tempt our young members over the nearly four years this board has been in operation. At first, it was the ?Junior Member? and ?Member? tags, then updated to ?Jedi Padawan? and ?Jedi Knight.? Members lamented the fact that they were of perceivably lower stature than others, and immediately sought to understand why, and what could be done to rectify the situation. Then, as the Ultimate Bulletin Board collapsed and the Jedi Council fled to Snowboard, a new form of class structure emerged to separate the ?sheep from the goats?: the star system, which seemingly rewarded the very spam and senseless posting the forum had long sought to avoid. Immediately, the forum was split between the ?Four-star? and ?Five-star? members, and those who had comparatively little credit to their name. Those little pixels became remarkable indicators of status on the boards, and many users still bemoan their removal.

    But, perhaps the starkest social demarcation on the Jedi Council has been the one between the moderation staff and the forum populace. This seems only natural; the moderators are perceived to have power and privilege, and that position attracts those who seek it. The administrators here were labeled as separate from the regular membership since the very beginning with the titles of the first, simple ?Administrator? tag, and then the more artistic, ?Jedi Master.? I recall many a ?How do I become a Jedi Master??-style threads, coupled with a ?When can I be an administrator?? inquiry that approached ubiquity, if memory serves. When it was revealed that the administration staff had a separate forum to discuss board matters, things began to deteriorate even more so. Following the move to Snowboards, the differentiation between moderator and member became quite sharp as staff members were granted the capability to change the color and font characteristics of their user name, instantly separating them from the rest of the board population. To make things more irksome, they were later granted unique avatars to be posted under their name denoting their authoritative stature.

    Certainly, this is all quite insignificant in the grand scheme of things; it is only human nature to ascribe for higher status in whatever social group one arrives in. And indeed, this is simply an Internet message board. But, at the same time, the Jedi Council has become more than that. What was once just a support feature for TheForce.net has evolved into a vast, sprawling community uniting tens of thousands of people from across the globe, and facilitating personal interaction in localities as part of a grand overriding arc of all things Star Wars. But, perhaps just as importantly, actions taken by the moderation staff has changed the ?message board system? into an unsightly mass of Internet Drama.

    Resentment has long since been harbored against the administrators on the Jedi Council. The concept of the ?Country Club admins? promoted two years ago is an example of such. Another such idea was that of the ?Teflon Mod,? in which one former moderator appeared to be able to post anything and do anything, and he would still have his job (although, he did perform remarkably and commendably during his three-year stint as an administrator). These major concerns, combined with everyday board polit
  2. Internet_Drama Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 26, 2001
    star 1
  3. Wattowatta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2000
    star 4
    lol. Always the right words for every occassion.
  4. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    Communism Is teh suck.

    That Post was... interesting.

    Wattowatta, are you Suggesting that the mods become Inhuman in their behaviour? What I mean is, you Expect them to overcome their fallen nature? As long as there are Two posters on this board, there will be Internet Drama. We cannot easily tear down This wall.

    What you suggest is Communism, I cannot accept that. I Prefer oligarchy.

    A Republic Would engulf this board in almost as much chaos as a democracy or a communism.

    Oligarchy is the only thing that will work.

    BTW, what is this Thread about? It's just saying "make the JC an anarchy" or something. I cannot Understand the absurdity and tomfooleriness of this thread.
  5. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    Ok, and? You said a whole lot there, but you didn't give any suggestions of how things should be changed. Only why they should be.

    And you complain about the admins having too much power, but then say that one admin shouldn't be allowed to close another's thread? Isn't that a little contradictory?

    Amazing.
  6. Jedi Greg Maddux Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 1999
    star 6
    I think most of the problem's just misunderstanding. Maybe we should just take the time to get to know our administrators better.
  7. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    I think it's a positive thing that I wanted to be a moderator. The reasons were sincere and simple. I felt I could help to make TF.N a family-safe site and help the forums by adding to conversations and working as hard as I can to make things run smoother and make people's lives a little easier. I guess this is now considered a crime.

    Ultimately, the promotion of someone to a moderator is a decision beyond that user's control. And I will proudly say that since I have been promoted, I have not once flaunted that fact and I have worked as hard as I possibly can on everyone's behalf.

    I don't consider myself any different than anyone else. I feel that I have been completely responsible with the functions of a moderator and I believe many others would agree with that sentiment.

    So what if I wasn't here for several years before being promoted? There isn't a set rule on this. As far as being controversial, let me just say this. One does not always get noticed without presenting their interest to those who can help. With me, too often have people misinterpreted genuine concern and honest values for "kissing up".

    I feel no further need to defend myself. My record in the AOTC and Episode III Spoilers Forum stands for itself. It takes a lot of time and I have done my best to make it a better place. And while I bust my tail to work behind the scenes and to create forum references, etc..., your contribution is to stir up a bunch of old crap, vent your own frustrations, and disguise it as if it's some sort of stroll down JC Memory Lane.

    Well, I for one don't buy it and I know I'm doing a great job. So if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back and help out as I was given the wonderful opportunity to do so.
  8. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    And you complain about the admins having too much power, but then say that one admin shouldn't be allowed to close another's thread? Isn't that a little contradictory?

    No, it isn't. He means (from what I gathered from his post and my own experiences) that admins should always be united and shouldn't go against each other publicly.

    I think it's a positive thing that I wanted to be a moderator. The reasons were sincere and simple. I felt I could help to make TF.N a family-safe site and help the forums by adding to conversations and working as hard as I can to make things run smoother and make people's lives a little easier. I guess this is now considered a crime.

    Actions alone should speak. There should be no asking for positions, no saying that you'd be great (I mean anyone here). Admins notice the ones who would be good. From what I've read, you repeatedly talked about it and this delayed your position longer than it would have otherwise.
  9. Wattowatta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2000
    star 4
    This wasn't meant to announce a grand solution for a grand problem, only to spark debate as to how we could fix it. There's a problem out there, brainstorm and fix it.

    And certainly, Sap, it's well and good that you wanted to save the JC, but you have to realize that position is a real tough sell. The image is that you garnered your position through incredibly obsequious behavior; and your promotion in that atmosphere gives the impression that moderators are a "Country Club" group that lets others in by licking their boots.
  10. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "No, it isn't. He means (from what I gathered from his post and my own experiences) that admins should always be united and shouldn't go against each other publicly."

    But that's silly. Both threads that were locked were clearly spam and would have been locked if posted by regular members. The mods who did the locking were doing their jobs. Why should they hold a double standard with regard to their own?

    "There's a problem out there, brainstorm and fix it."

    So, you're just trying to stir up controversy, and have no real solutions yourself? That's what I'm reading here. Frankly, I don't see it really being that huge a problem, which is why I posted what I did. If you think it's such a problem, why are you putting off the resposibility of finding a solution onto other people?

    Amazing.
  11. Darth_AYBABTU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2001
    star 6

    Good Lord.

    I just come here because I like Star Wars.

    AYBABTU?

  12. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    So what? Why are you focused on my life? I followed through on what I said and I will continue to do so. I knew I could do this and so I made it clear. Big deal. I hope in your life, this is the biggest problem you have because I envy you.

    And I am certainly not running the PSA like an anarchy. In fact, I am continuously renaming a member's thread as 'official' or doing google searches for them about digital theaters, etc... So don't direct this thread at me, because I'll argue with you post for post, moderator or not.
  13. McNerf-Burger Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 5
    Hmmmmmmmm. Perhaps the appointments of the vile Sapient and farraday are clues to the bigger picture, of which you have missed, yet I have not. Clearly, there exists a massive conspiracy to seize control of the JC. Some Dark Society of Evil, of which Sapient and farraday are no doubt operatives of. Yes, their apparent good modding skills and helpful manners are all part of their cleverly orchestrated disguise. Of course. It all makes sense. Yes, when Agent farraday locked the topic made by the real mod, this was clearly an act of sabotage. For, it is to absurd to believe that a mod, (an oldbie mod?), would make a thread deserving of closure. Nay, this can NOT be true. Me and Wattowatta have uncovered the truth.
  14. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    But that's silly. Both threads that were locked were clearly spam and would have been locked if posted by regular members.

    Ideally, moderators would be responsible enough not to post anything resembling spam, keeping such a problem from happening.

  15. GasCabbie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 4
    Beating a dead horse elequently does not neccessarily make you right.

    EDIT - And Wattowatta ridiculing mods who "suck up" ot get thier positions is frightening.
  16. McNerf-Burger Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 13, 2000
    star 5
    By the way, since when is it against the rules to use these so called...... "post scripts"? They are just sigs, which arent in the sig box. Many respected members do such, even the Mace Windy. So Im not seeing how your comments about Liz's "...and a mango" and farraday's "applesauce" are relevant to......anything.
  17. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    So what? Why are you focused on my life? I followed through on what I said and I will continue to do so. I knew I could do this and so I made it clear. Big deal. I hope in your life, this is the biggest problem you have because I envy you.

    I'm just pointing something out. I'm not focused on your life.

  18. TheGarbageMan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2002
    There is no need to insult communism. Just because you are bitter all that kissing up got you nowhere there is no need to go spreading crap around.
  19. Wattowatta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2000
    star 4
    Certainly, Knight. That stuff was spam, Amazing, there's no doubt about that. And so we have a double conundrum: mods were posting spam and could have gotten away with it, and we have another mod breaking the "United Front" principle by acting like he alone knew what was best for the JC. As I asked earlier, could a pm not have been sent to the moderators in question saying "Dude, that's not cool, close the thread."?

  20. Mara-Jade-Skywalker Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 21, 2000
    star 5
  21. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Seriously, let it go already. If I had a dime for everytime I heard that I kissed ass, I'd be rich. But Wattowatta, you have to admit that you rambled on and on and on and when I finished reading it, I realized that there was really no point, just a generic 'I disagree with who was appointed' 'the JC is turning to melted marshmallow crap' 'the mods lock too many threads' 'there's a problem'.

    Can you imagine if the nightly news were like this? "

    This is Tom Brokaw reporting. In the world today, there are a lot of problems. Big one's. And I'm not going to tell you because they should be blatantly obvious to everyone But it's horrible. What am I offering to help, well....there are problems....lots of them."

    Although you may think it does, these threads do not help. They only serve to create the divide and exaggerate a problem that isn't necessarily there or as big as you think it is. So if you truly care, this is not the approach.
  22. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "Ideally, moderators would be responsible enough not to post anything resembling spam, keeping such a problem from happening."

    Exactly, and when they do post spam, other admins should come along and close the threads, which is precisely what happened.

    Amazing.
  23. Wattowatta Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2000
    star 4
    My name is not in colors, and if anyone here has any grain of sense in them, it never will, Gas.
  24. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    Wattowatta, I always listen to any and all suggestions and concerns involving the boards and specifically the PSA. I'm waiting to hear what this thread's intent is all about or what you and Knight are offering up.

    And Knight, you said you aren't focusing on me, only going by what you read or heard. How about I start a thread on you about how your last 10 posts sucked and I can't believe they ever sent you an e-mail with a password to log in. Hurts, doesn't it? And it's uncalled for. That's why I never do it. It was just something I read, that's all.
  25. AmazingB Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 12, 2001
    star 7
    "That stuff was spam, Amazing, there's no doubt about that. And so we have a double conundrum: mods were posting spam and could have gotten away with it, and we have another mod breaking the "United Front" principle by acting like he alone knew what was best for the JC."

    I still think your contradicting yourself. Wouldn't the mods joining in a "United Front" just make them more powerful, which is precisely what you're rallying against? I would have thought you'd be happy that some mods went against the "United Front" and did their jobs, as opposed to just letting it go, since it was posted by an admin.

    Amazing.
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