Book Club (ver 2.0 for real)

I thought Jedi Search was pretty good. I liked the moments between Threepio and R-2, and the Luke and Leia training sections.

 

Yes, I agree. I love anything having to do with Leia being trained. I know she has important things to do in the Government, but I think everything she has to do could be helped by becoming a Jedi. Also.... The New Republic will eventually have to get along without her anyway. I'm sure she could have spared a few years somewhere.

 

It was good. I dont like how Luke is such a downer. He needs to lighten up.

Also, I think Han and Chewie handle the situation above Kessel very badly. Like amatuers. This is Hna and Chewie, not a couple of bozos.

I enjoyed the blob races, those sound pretty neat.

They made Lando too gay. Wearing slightly outdated clothes is supposed to symbolize poverty? They make him a pretty boy.

I dont like Gantoris much. If he dreamed of a dark man killng him, and he suspected it was Luke, why go at all? I mean, if a potential killer did eluded some challenges, would you follow him to his ginger bread house just because?

Maw Installation is always fun to read about. Daalas charcter was prety good.

 

Jedi Search was excellent. From outstanding cover art, characterisation and development, it had some good edge of the panties moments. It might be Dark Empire, one of the TPBs, that has a foreword from Anderson discussing why he included the DE stuff in Jedi Search.

 

On the whole, I didn't care for Jedi Search. It's a quick read and an easy one, which is a point in its favor.

But the characterizations feel a little off somehow. Wedge has always harbored a secret desire to work in construction? Gantoris willingly follows Luke to what he believes to be his destruction?

The best parts are the parts involving Han and Chewie on Kessell. There's "wing and a prayer" feel to these sequences and they're very claustrophobic and very suspenseful. I especially like the stunning escape sequence. The chase is just fantastic.

Lando isn't treated too badly either, though the Blob races just seemed cartoonish.

Anderson's strength is in writing action sequences. He's not terrific at dialogue and the lines that come out of his characters mouths always seem a bit stilted.

However, Daala is an interesting character and a unique one (at the point this was published).

Regardless of all this, the book has one overbearing trait that is both its greatest strength and its greatest weakness: it's pulp. Pure pulp. This is good because it means that it moves like gangbusters, never lets up and has lots of energy to burn. It's bad because the characters aren't particularly well served and the dialogue isn't exactly Shakespearan.

It's not as bad as some say, but neither is it very good.

 

I agree with everyone so far (anti-climactic I know)

I think the blob races were cartoonish too. A 'Blobstacle Course" Come on. I agree with everyone that the charichterization was a little off. Like Gantoriss' Dark Man, and such. That is the beauty, and the curse of this star wars trilogy fetish, You don't have to get it all down in one book.

Also I don't think Luke was being a downer. The Jedi Order is dead, he is the last of their kind, and he needs to star thigns back up again by himself. And worst yet he deosn't even have a full picture of what teh Jedi Order is supposed to look like. I think he was approperiatly dramatic at the right points.

Lets talk about Lando though, what didn't you guys like. He seemed a little prissy? I don't understnad. I didn't see that at all. My oly gripe with Lando so far is that hes been religated back to his old Gambling, Minining Operation-Owning sterotype. Lando is much more dynamic than all that, give the man some credit.

 

I never really liked Lando and I seem to never really care for him in the books dunno why.

Luke has a heavy burden on his shoulders reviving the jedi order he basically almost knows nothing about. It was destroyed when he was born....how do you reinstate something you never experienced and hardly anyone ever told you anything about?

-Mel

 

It was tumble after fall at times: the mad rush through the mines; outflying the pursuers; and out of the macrowave into the Daala pot.

Anderson even explained why the Reps had trouble finding traders; many had privateered for Doole. I liked that. Antilles' second, one Lieutenant Deegan, even got a quick mention in Rogue Squadron. The Bantamers knew how to link things, not the way Luceno splashes lists at you with little relevance.

Okay, so the block races were silly. More than Tod, Rod and Lod entering a spaceport; Wraith Squadron? More than an entire book and planet of immature speaking people; SOA?

And superweapons aside, the Jedi Academy trilogy came at a time when they weren't overused. It was only the later Darksaber and Isard's Revenge etal that went too far.

His teen-aged prose aside for every book and comic he pens, Anderson provided key development and foundation to the series, not worthles pulp like Nyax. He introduced:

-the academy
-Durron
-Solusar from Dark Emp 2, even if he was stiff
-the Solo kidlings
-Mistryl
-Kessel
-Jedi equipment trackers
-a baseline for Ackbar's pov
-Calamari, and heaps more . . .

 

Alright, I read the first few chapters last night, and it occured to me how long it's been since I read it. I read Jedi Search in 1997! I'll go ahead and comment on what I've read so far.

The first thing that stood out to me is that in the first two chapters, Anderson used an exclimation point in the narration twice. Not in the dialogue, mind you, but in the narration. It struck me as very juvenille. I hope that he doesn't do it any more for the rest of the book, but I'm not holding my breath.

Another thing that I noticed (and I seem to recall from the first time I read the books) is that Anderson tends to use movie quotes in his dialogue quite a bit. Characters seem to have definite catchphrases. Han has already said "I have a bad feeling about this." That kinda rubs me the wrong way.

As far as the characterizations go, I recall my 7th grade self liking them. We'll see how that stands up upon rereading. I think Luke is justified in being a little down, the task ahead of him is gonna be daunting. Having just come out of a brush with the Dark Side, I think he has a right to be a little unconfident.

I really do appreciate Anderson, overall. He really fleshed out the Sith, and he does a great job of incorporating the EU that's already out there. I like how he collaborated a lot with Veitch, using DE stuff, as well as TOTJ stuff. I agree that the amount of significance that his books contribute make up for any childishness that I percieve in his writing. The academy, the many Jedi that he made up, and the advances in plot are great, so I anticipate enjoying the rest of Jedi Search.

 

There was a Seinfeld episoe about exclamation points . . .

Crispin was worse, with "..." as uch as five times a page!

That's because his books are heavily infected with the movies. Champions of the Force was designed to share ROTJ's three sections. Not to mention Cloak of Deception's Dorvallan, Coruscant and Eriaduan sections. And I won't even mention Darksaber, the clone of all movies . . .

 

How about Streen, and Gantoriss?

I think we all agree that the charichterization of these new folks, (in addition to everyone else) is a bit weak. But aside from that what do we think?

I love the scene with Streen on Bespin. The whole scene, while a little over dramatic was done very nicely. I was grinning the whole time. I think it was the perfect combonation of Movie refrence, and new stuff.


But what do people think about the Future of Streen, and Gantoris. I mean I've read a bit of the NJO, and don't remember hearing anything about them. Do they survive?, do they fall to the dark Side? (No Spoilers for the rest of the series, If you've read it already, Just guesses) What does Gantoriss' Dark Man dream have to do with his future? Did he just have some bad Corned Beef before bed, or is it a premonition?

 

His dream has to tie in with the story eventually. They wouldn't have just included it to throw us off. But what it is is yet to come. I am a really huge fan of Streen as well. I think he's going to turn out as a really interesting character. If nobody's seen him later on then the character probably ends, either by death or by just fading into existence, by the end of the trilogy.

 

The Streen of Before the Storms has developed. More confident, sure of himself, and jumped off the temple summit with Skywalker thinking it was his last test to admin the academy. The Streen of I, Jedi was more the Academy trilogy one.

Like Tenneniel and others, Streen's forte is wind control, which can be used quite creatively if someone wanted. A properly controlled minicyclone could be a great defensive shield against circling Coralskippers, say. Or weather the climate right, and charge some static bolts.

Alas, all these Jedi writers do is light their sticks and wack them against other lit sticks . . .

 

What do people think of Gantoriss? Do you think Luke is the Dark Man, from his dream?

 

im in

 

Still not on at home (useless british ISP's) however I will be naughty at work until home setup is sorted.

Re. Jedi Search

This was a book which I thought opened up the creation of the Acadamy quite well.

A lot has been written about Lukes brooding approach during the course of the book but if you were to be in a position where you have to.

A: start a school to train force sensitives when you don't have a huge amount of training yourself.

B: have minimal training equipment except 1 stolen holocron (which could be tainted as it did come from the reborn Emperor)

C: have no where to train them.

I know if I was in this position I would be somewhat concerned and dare I say it broody.

I didn't like the way that Han and Chewie went from disaster to disaster the way they did,
but as an allowance for dramtic licence it worked well enough for that purpose.

I think KJA wrote the book reasonably well and although his characterisations are average,
he introduced us to characters that would be used later in the trilogy (Yes I've read ahead) which I consider to be a good thing as one of the irks of the NJO for me was introducing a new character only to then either kill them off like a punk or use them as an obvious traitor.

Gantoris' view of Luke as the dark man is good and I understand the view of thinking that he shouldn't go with him but Gantoris comes to Luke after he had passed the test (Quite deadly tests as well) saying he didn't belive he was this dark man.
I believe Gantoris feels he is strong enough to survive whatever is to come if he goes with Luke and the promise of an improved life for his people sweetened the deal.

 

I dont think Luke has it in him to be the Dark Man. At least not intentionally. We still dont now all who is at the academy. maybe Durron is?

 

Thats very Good.


I didn't even think about it before, but thats a good possibility, also, why not Steen?

 

It's not that the Blob races are any sillier than Allston's stuff. It's just that Allston also managed to create real emotionally resonant characters that we understood and felt for. I can't picture any of the characters from Jedi Search being able to deliver Ton Phanen's speech about love with a straight face. That's what sets humor and camp apart. Humor doesn't ruin drama; camp does.

One of my favorite moments in this book is also one of the quietest: Wedge wishing Gantoris well at the spaceport: "Go and become the best of the Jedi," or something of that nature. It felt very simple and very emotional.

I should mention that I do like the set up of Mon Mothma and Admiral Ackbar as real characters, having their own distinct plots, rather than simply standing around to argue with the mains or, God forbid, dying off screen . . . This is another benefit to Anderson's brevity of style: it allows a lot of minor characters to get good screen time. Ackbar and Mothma both get a lot of face time and Wedge will get more face time than usual in the two following books, in large part, simply because Anderson is able to have so freaking much going on at once. This is a positive and something that sort of defined the Bantam era EU: multiplicity of plots.

Compare The New Rebellion, for instance, to Tatooine Ghost. The former, for all its flaws, not that it had many, was at least active and sprawling. Tatooine Ghost may have tied into the films and the prequel era, but it just felt unbearably static. Regardless, let's set those two aside for now, since that's not what we're supposed to be discussing right now.

Jedi Search's sprawl is part of its charm. I still maintain that it's pulp. It's not just great literature, like Iron Fist, or true undistilled entertainment, like Dark Force Rising, or pure art, like Shatterpoint. But it's a heck of a lot better than most of the new Del Rey prequel EU.

Unlike Jedi Trial or the Medstar books or Tatooine Ghost or Survivor's Quest, in Jedi Search, stuff goes down. A heck of a lot of stuff and extremely fast. There's never a set up without a payoff and never a wasted word. If Anderson could learn something from Zahn about character development, so too could Zahn learn something from Anderson about brevity and activity.

That's my opinion, clarified and expanded from the rather brusque initial opinion.

Your thoughts?

 

I liked some of the prequel stuff (Hard Contact, Medstar books, shatterpoint) but Jedi Trial is a darn good book. I havent read it since a long time, and have grown used to people hating it, so I tghought it sucked. After reading it over, I realize it's a darn good book. I love the interaction with everything, and it gets better as you read the rest of the series, and once you read I,Jedi. You get to see everything happening. I dont want to give any spoiles, so please tell me what Gantorises situation is at the end of this book, I forget what hes doing, all the books kind of run together for me.

It amkes me want to read the Dark Empire comics, even tohugh I despise comics.

 

I agree lots of stuff does go down in the book, (as I assume it will in the following two books in the series) But one advantage that this book, and all of Post ROTJ EU is that it is not constrained by standing in the middle of two G-Canon sources. (also, LOE is one of the best EU books ever!)

Fairness aside, I agree that Anderson has a wonderful functional style. There is a lot going on in this book, there are two very strong story lines, and a third for most of the book. Then there are smaller story lines as well. There were three space battles, four planets, New charachters, refrences to Mara.... Its a lot to go down in three hundrend pages.

Anderson is democratic with his voice, giving equal importance to thrilling story lines, and duller ones, important charachters, and our favorite supporting roles, Humor, and Drama, and above all PLOT.

This isn't the best book in the EU, not by a long shot. But it is above average, and even exceeds some of the great EU in how fair it is to the balance of charachter and plot.

 

I dont think Luke has it in him to be the Dark Man. At least not intentionally. We still don't know all who is at the academy. maybe Durron is?

I don't think the issue here is whether Luke has it in him as we know he clearly isn't the dark man (although in his DE days he could have been). You need remember that when he arrived on Eol Sha and met Gantoris he was wearing black (a dark colour!) and I know if I was having nightmares about a dark man and then one turned up with special powers and was wearing black I'd be concerned as well.

I do think we have plenty to be concerned about with young Kyp, especially with his little red glowy shimmer i think he could be a problem from now and even into the future.



Now then, Is it just me or is anyone really frustrated by the incompetance of Daala????

I mean, come on, 5 years with a communications black out do you not think you'd have at least sent someone to the edge of the Maw to get some comm chatter???
or at the least when you escape you'd try to make contact with someone and get a heads up as to whats going on
But no. Daala loses an ISD whilst trying to get hold of an INDESTRUCTABLE ship, a ship that she is aware cannot be destroyed by conventional means and then goes and gets her ass kicked by trying to destroy an insignificant ragtag fleet at Kessel. How she made it to be an admiral through her performance is anyone guess, I mean we know she slept to her position with Tarkin but who did she sleep with to get her "tactical nous" to get her recognised by Tarkin???????

 

Okay, here it is.


Daala is stupid. She took for granted the wild accusations of two rebel spies. She def, should not have trusted them.

On the Suncrusher chase, I think thats a bit more understandable. She was desperate, she needed that. If indeed what these rebel usurpers says is true, its the only thing that'll save her skin. Shes got to go after it.

 

Does anyone think Daala isn't an idiot?

 

Does anyone think Daala isn't an idiot?

Nope next question

Move along.........Move along









Only joking.

I don't think she is an idiot as such, she is just naive.

As I said in the post above. If I had been isolated for 5 years with no communication AND when I apprehend 3 "spies" who tell me that my bosses are dead and that my Government has been reduced to a few sectors, the first thing I would do when I got out would be to contact someone and find out what's going on!

Also after a period of no contact I would have sent someone to the edge of the Maw to get comm chatter to see if I could get some idea on what is happening as I would certainly be suspicious after at least 6 months of no contact, I mean Tarkin would have told her how often to expect an update and did she not get suspicious when no one came to see what this super weapon facility had produced?

No Daala isn't an idiot, she made Admiral after all and regardless of how she got there you don't make someone an Admiral just for showing you a good time.