PT Books "ruining" it

If there's already a thread on this, my apologies.

Who else is with me on this? Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the PT and OT equally, as I'm such a Star Wars nutter (who needs therapy?!). But, now that I'm getting to be a more serious fan and actually reading the books alongside watching the movies, a little part has "ruined" it for me in ROTS. Not really "ruined", but made light of the situation. I now understand the Rule of Two, and when Palpy is talking with Anakin at the opera, we're supposed to think that Palpy's such a badass meanie because he killed his mentor. Well...they all did that according to the Rule. Or perhaps because Palpy was so pleased with himself? I don't know, I'm probably overlooking something. Anyway, I would love to hear other's input.

 

I've got to say, anakinfansince1983 , I've never really understood your preference for the ROTS novelization. Not that there's anything wrong with preferring it, but you've always maintained that you can't bear to watch the ROTS film. So I guess I find it kind of odd that you would adore the book considering it's (at least in my opinion) "worse" than the movie in many respects.

Take Anakin's reunion with Padmé, for instance. In the film, I thought the scene was perfectly done, with Anakin showing caution, fear, ecstasy at the thought of being a father. In the novel, though, as soon as they are together, they're arguing about politics, with Anakin thinking there is someone coming between them, squeezing her shoulders until she has to tell him to stop. Honestly, it made one of the happiest scenes in the film rather unpleasant.

His outburst in the Council during the movie, while unfortunate, did not come across as nearly as arrogant as it did in the novel either.

Nor did I like the scene with Padmé in the apartment (the "I feel lost") when he thinks of her as some sort of bug that can be squashed. He certainly sounds perturbed in the movie, but it doesn't last and he immediately stops at the threshold of the door instead of going over to her and "towering" over her, hurting her feelings.

The turn also...I'm not blaming Stover for this because he may very well have been following old drafts, but I found the turn less logical in the novel than the film and the relish with which Anakin killed the Jedi and Separatists seemed rather out of place. In the Mustafar platform confrontation, for example, when Padmé asks Anakin about the younglings, this is his expression:



He doesn't look pleased, he doesn't ignore it -- there's just a sense of resignation, like he thinks he did did something that had to be done (and Anakin certainly does feel some guilt, considering the tears he shed on the balcony in the film).

In the book though, he immediately gets angry that Obi-Wan is merely alive.

Obviously, there's lots of Anakin examples, but I also had other issues with the novels, such as the fight scenes being over-the-top (repelling 10,000 blaster bolts, for example) or very long.

Of course, on some level, I understand that you prefer the format since it lets you see into the characters' heads. I guess I've just never quite grasped why you despise the movie so much while you seem to adore the novel? This isn't meant as an attack in any way. It's just something I'm a bit curious about.

On the whole, I've found that I always seem to prefer the movies, so I thought it would be interesting to hear your perspective.

 

wow well said piettshat

 

I also adore the RotS novelization, not that I have a problem with the film.

 

anakinfansince1983

One reason I preferred the Council scene in the movie to the book was that it really highlighted the gap between Obi-Wan and Anakin in that I think it's pretty clear that the Jedi Order, in many ways, comes between them. I personally thought Obi-Wan's response in the movie was more in character. Anakin was embarrassing himself and talking back to not only respected Masters, but Obi-Wan's close friends. I think his response was more appropriate in that regard.

That's actually one of the things I dislike about Stover's novel is, in part, his handling of Obi-Wan. It's like he's trying to absolve Obi-Wan of blame that was never his in the first place. For example, in the shuttle scene with Mace and Yoda, Obi-Wan in the movie says that Anakin wasn't happy about the assignment (and Obi-Wan clearly had some reservations about it), but Obi-Wan also had faith in the mission. In the book, though, Obi-Wan's going on and on about how Anakin shouldn't trust them after this. And I found it completely illogical -- I can't imagine that if Obi-Wan really thought such a thing that he would actually ask Anakin to do it. But it seems like Stover is trying to make it sound like Obi-Wan "realized" that it would push Anakin to the Dark Side which is really flying in the face of logic. Not to mention the fact that in the novel, Padmé wants to tell Obi-Wan about her meetings with the Senators while in the deleted scenes, Lucas makes it clear that she wanted to tell Anakin.

There's also the "Palpatine's shuttle arriving" excuse that Stover uses for why Obi-Wan didn't finish off Anakin. Is it really so bad if Obi-Wan was simply emotionally overwhelmed? Plus, it's a rather horrible excuse anyway considering that it would have taken Obi-Wan, at most, one second to finish Anakin off as he saw the shuttle arriving.

As for the Padmé-Anakin relationship, I was just rather uncomfortable with how controlling and borderline abusive it came across as, at times -- with Anakin almost hurting Padmé, interrogating her, or being extremely controlling. That's not to say that the movie's relationship was perfectly healthy, though (obviously not). But Anakin never did anything to harm her until the Force choke and I thought it was, overall, better handled than the novel. Though you are right that there was some great dialogue in the book, but I don't feel it can counterbalance some of the rather awful implications it brings up.

I don't know...I realize I'm in the vast minority here, but I just didn't feel that the novel captured the tone of the film all that well. Anakin complaining about Obi-Wan's lectures during the Mustafar duel was rather jarring, for instance. I also would have liked if Stover inserted some of Anakin's thoughts during the battle as well -- to serve as a contrast to Obi-Wan's. I often felt like the characters weren't really...themselves. That's one of my personal issues with the EU, though, I guess is that since it's not Lucas writing and putting the material together himself, you are (by necessity) reading an interpretation of the character through more of a fans' lens.

 

The only recollection I have of the ROTS novel consists of Anakin offering up some awful Freddy Krueger-esque punchlines while murdering the Separatists.

IMHO, prose doesn't suit Star Wars. A comic book or screenplay may fare well, but the interior nature of the novel clashes mightily with Lucas's purely archetypal vision.

 

I thought all Sith apprentices advanced to Master by killing the (former) master to answer an earlier question.

As to Obi-Wan's "headshake" in the Council scene, I took it as a small, unconscious gesture of disappointment rather than an overt intended gesture of disgust. Haven't we all (I have) done that little head shake thing at reading something or seeing something on the news - a kind of "I can't believe that" shake of the head?

 

anakinfansince1983

I see your points. I guess for me, the biggest problem I have with Obi-Wan's reaction to the assignment in the book is that I just can't imagine him asking that of Anakin if he really thought it would destroy the trust between them. The way I've always read Obi-Wan's character is that he remains in the dark about a lot of Anakin's problems, in part because they have difficulty connecting due to their upbringings, and in part due to Anakin's reticence to talk to him (such as when Obi-Wan is leaving to go capture Grievous).

I felt Obi-Wan's reaction in the Council scene in the movie was also more appropriate because it was understandable -- much as he loves Anakin, he also loves and admires Yoda and Mace, and I don't think he would want Anakin behaving towards them in such a manner. He also must realize that Anakin isn't helping his case by lashing out, either. The scene in the film was also (fortunately) briefer, so Obi-Wan didn't even need to intervene.

But, anyway, thank you for replying. I can see why you like the novel more than the film. Although, speaking for myself, I think I'll stick with the movie.

 

I don't think RotS was "ruined" very much by books. RotJ was ruined much more by the books.

 

I think TCW ruin the movies far more then the books could.

 

I tend to agree with PiettsHat . I liked the ROTS novel, but I liked ROTS the movie more. Granted, novels in general are often better than movies based on them because they have a lot more time and opportunity to delve into things more. But in SW, the movies are not based on the novels, and I think that's noteworthy. Also, I agree with drg4 that SW just seems best suited to the visual format more than anything else. I enjoyed the SW novels that I have read so far, but I don't think they were on the same level as the films at all. And from what I've heard, the novels that I've read are apparently a lot better in many people's opinions than a lot of the other EU content that's out there.

 

I also agree with PiettsHat and drg4. Star Wars is more suited to the visual format. I haven't read many of the novels, but in my opinion, the ROTS novel is rather weak, and Anakin is portrayed as a psycopath, willingly accepting the Dark Side, proud of being Lord Vader and being more of a bad-ass. I find the movie-Anakin much more interesting, fascinating and "realistic".

 

Anakin was "proud of being Lord Vader?" What novel were you reading?

 

Possibly the line about how he was now truly "The Hero with No Fear".

 

The "This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker, forever" section completely cancels that out.

 

True- but I was guessing "proud of being Lord Vader" could be applied to a very short period, in the criticism.

Him "weighing Padme's life against the entire Jedi Order- it was no contest" might have qualified as "willingly accepting the Dark Side".

But that isn't necessarily any different from what we see on screen.

 

Willingly accepting the dark side? That's part of the story, no matter what version you're looking at. The dark side is like a vampire. You have to let the vampire in.

 

Except, apparently, in Dark Empire, when Luke is forcibly brainwashed.

 

Um, no. He went there with the intention to turn.

 

He tried to destroy it from within. It failed horribly and then he got brainwashed

So from a point of view he still let it in

 

With the intention of learning Palpatine's secrets, at least. His plan was to learn everything he needed to know to defeat Palpatine- without getting corrupted by him. There's a certain amount of debate as to whether Luke had been corrupted at all- and if so- whether it was due to voluntary action by him- at the point when he sought to kill Palpatine.

After losing the fight, Palpatine says "It is not your time to die- it is your time to submit- the Dark Side will break you!" and then, in the audio drama, the brainwashing begins:

Emperor: You. Are. Nothing.​

Luke: Where am I?​

Emperor: Alone.​

Luke: No - Help me-​

Emperor: There is no one. There is only the Dark Side.​

Luke: I... am... a Jedi. Aaaaah!​

Emperor: You are not Jedi. You are nothing. You have no name.​

Luke: My name - is - Skywalker! AAAAAAH!​

Emperor: YOU. HAVE. NO. NAME!​

Luke: I-​

Emperor: Listen to the Dark Side. You have no name.​

Luke: I have... *dully* no name.​

Emperor: You serve the Dark Side.​

Luke: I... s-serve...​