Lit Bright Sith - Should we see them outside of the Old Republic?

If I am reading you right you are saying that the time when the jedi are really making many mistakes are far in-between if you look at the big timeline. It is just that it seems, to me, that not many writhers do stories in those other times, so we have a higher percentage of stories with bad or failing jedi than not; at least under the last decade

 

Lucas is quite clear he considers the Dark Side=Imbalance and the Force=Balance.

Which more or less is synonymous with most Fans treatment of Dark Side=Evil and Light Side=Good.

 

Can you explain your point?

Also, to ad to the Conan quotes, not because it fits but just because –
"I am very old, O man of the waste countries; long and long ago I came to this planet with others of my world, from the green planet Yag, which circles for ever in the outer fringe of this universe. We swept through space on mighty wings that drove us through the cosmos quicker than light, because we had warred with the kings of Yag and were defeated and outcast. But we could never return, for on earth our wings withered from our shoulders."
~ Yogah of Yag, The Tower of the Elephant, Robert E. Howard

 

The Jedi Knighthood in the Prequel Era is completely uniform. In Mass Effect, there was a discussion that the Prothean race was defeated by the Reapers not because they were ambushed (though that certainly helped) but because they all reacted in a easily predictable manner. It's a celebration of diversity that the varying ideas and cultures of the galaxy are better simply BECAUSE of their differences.

The Jedi Order is crippled in their facing of Count Dooku and Palpatine because all of the Jedi not only act in a uniform fashion--they THINK in it. We then see them consistently fooled and bamboozled by relatively simple tricks.

If the Jedi had more variation, this wouldn't have happened. The Jedi's arrogance isn't that they think they have the RIGHT way. They think they have the ONLY way.

 

Gracias, I will watch it later

 

Not only uniformity of thought, but an institutionalized orthodoxy that did not allow for diversity resulting in Qui-Gon being viewed as a maverick. Wallace mentions writing this into Jedi Path in the end notes.

 

I have to disagree; they are only uniform in basic training, outside of that they have had decades of different experience from different parts of the galaxy.

Then why do we see the masters so often debate about what they should do, if Anakin is the "chosen one", and what the Force is telling them?

Can you give me some examples?

So you say that if the Jedi had more variation the sith's century long conspires against them, carried out by the political genius Palpatien who possibly is the most powerful sith in history would not have succeeded?

Also variation in what way?

 

KOTOR's comics also reveal why the "raised from children alone" thing is stupid for reasons you wouldn't expect.

It's a reaction to the Dark Side.

In other words, the Jedi are AFRAID and reacting from that fear when they make these restrictions.

Edit:

And any variation on idea is squashed with Qui Gon Jinn's relatively innocuous views (a NINE year old is capable of being trained) considered dangerously radical.

The debate is resolved extremely quickly and in a negative manner. The boy won't be trained. Only the fact Obi Wan Kenobi defeats a Sith Lord moves the Jedi Knighthood to bend their prinicples and accept Anakin into the Jedi Order.

* A clone army is created by one of their members when they aren't looking.
* Dooku is an enemy of the Republic.
* The Sith have returned.
* The erasure of an entire star system from their data banks.
* Anakin is dangerously unstable.

Yeah. Pretty much. The Jedi Knights would have been far too diverse, spread out, and numerous to be destroyed as completely as Palpatine did.

 

How are they "relatively simple tricks"?

 

Because the Jedi have to blind idiots to miss them all. Then again, I think Palpatine was a genius but the Jedi's failure was their own doing as much as him.

 

I'd argue that much of that perception is tied into the DNT-LOTF progress that we have in the Post-NJO. I can't think of a lot of major issues of bad or failing Jedi outside that with a few minor exception (Jaesa is a big one); perhaps it is poor memory on my part. But then again, I don't quite know what your standard for "bad" Jedi are. As a side note, we're moving off of the topic of Sith a bit, for whatever that is worth.

 

Well Bad Jedi are germane to a topic about Good Sith.

 

This, again, reminds me of Christianity. You have hell and heaven, which seem like two sides of a coin. But at the same time God is "omnipotent and omniscient" and Lucifer is only a fallen archangel, nothing more. Therefore, hell is lesser than God. A contradictory picture is painted and so it is for the force.

 

That's not what the light side and the dark side are, though. They're Son and Daughter. One isn't more powerful than the other (unless the Force is out of balance, in which case the dark side is).

 

Only in Mortis.

 

Which was dictated by Lucas.

 

Do you have any proof for this?

Also, consider this: The force (god) created a champion just to bring back the balance (to itself?). Then, when that failed, another champion was created and he helped the first champion bring back the balance. If the force is one thing, it is persistent. The Sith have nothing to counter that.

 

The Secrets of Mortis featurette that shows Lucas telling the writers about the Force and explaining it to them on the blu-ray? And the Force didn't create Luke, Anakin and Padme did.

Nor do we know factually that the Force created Anakin if we're going to selectively pick and choose what we want to believe because it fits a religious paradigm.

 

As mentioned, I prefer the depiction of the Dark Side which is in "Dark Empire Sourcebook."

An interesting theory I postulate from this description is the Dark Side isn't a "side" to the Force at all. It's actually just the Dark Jedi turning INWARD and using his personal evil to twist and pervert the Force to his own use.

In other words, Sith are vampires of the Force and the Imbalance of the Force is actually literally just Palpatine and the Sith nearing his level of power.

 

That is the selfless vs selfish dichotomy presented by Mortis.

I think the inherent dialectical nature of reality is an important part to Star Wars, though. If you are turning inward to use the Force -- there's an equal turning outward.

 

Before we got Abeloth and so on, I tended to go with the idea that Mortis was actually nothing more than a Force vision by Anakin Skywalker, Obi Wan, and Ahsoka due to coming across a particularly powerful wellspring of the stuff. The Force was personified by the Father, Son, and Daughter but none of them were actually REAL. They were just trying to show Anakin and his closest friends there was a serious danger.

If Anakin fell to the Dark Side (The Son), he'd end up destroying the person he cared for the most (The Daughter) and the Balance (Father) would be destroyed. Unfortunately, everyone completely missed the message.

On a literal level, I actually take it as three Celestials deciding to embody the Force only to really screw it up because people aren't actually personifications. The Son, I sympathize with, because he's being forced to be nothing more than a static picture of evil. When, really, he's much more than that.

On a metaphorical level, the Dark Side and Light Side have to exist together because without Light the Dark is self-destructive and without Dark, the Light is impotent.

 

I don't disagree with your interpretation of Mortis -- the beauty of the trilogy is there is no correct interpretation to the events that occur there -- they could be an allegorical Force vision of the metaphysics of the Universe, they could be an allegory for Anakin's internal struggle, they could be literal events with literal characters in a literal alternate dimension, or ALL could be true at once. The less said about Fate of the Jedi the better.

But on the featurette I mentioned, Lucas talks about it a bit.
Edit more added:

Sounds kosher with you, no?

 

* A clone army is created by one of their members when they aren't looking.
Do you mean that they should have noticed that a planet in the other rim have begun to produce a clone army or that they should bee more suspicious about the clone army after they found out about it?

* Dooku is an enemy of the Republic.
Thay know Dooku is an enemy to the Repbulic, they just think that he is an political activist not a warmonger. I admit that they are probably a bit naive/arrogant to believe that as a former high ranking jedi Dooku would still hold to many of their ideals
* The Sith have returned.
Qui-Gon Jinn: [describing his encounter with Darth Maul] He had all the lightsaber fighting capabilities and the moves of the Jedi, only faster and more agressive. My only conclusion... is that it was a Sith lord.
Ki-Adi-Mundi: Impossible! The Sith are extinct! They have been for nearly a millenium.
Mace Windu: I agree. The Sith would not have returned without us sensing it.
Yoda: Hard to see, the dark side is. We must investigate further before drawing a conclusion to the idenity of your adversary.
[...]
Mace Windu: "There is no doubt that the mysterious warrior was a Sith."
Yoda: "Hmm, only two there are. No more, no less. A master and an apprentice."
Mace Windu: "But which was destroyed? The master or the apprentice?"

Or do you mean that they should have known before the sith revelled themselves?

* The erasure of an entire star system from their data banks.
It is easy to miss something like that if you are not looking for it, once they were looking for it they noticed that it was missing at once. Also the only way to manipulate they Jedi Archives is to be a high-ranking member of the order and why should anybody do that...

* Anakin is dangerously unstable
I would say that Anarkins instability is easy to miss, after all the attitude he shows the other jedi is of a self-certain, some time arrogant, hotshot smartas; the only one who really see him when he is vulnerableis Padmé: who don't tell the other out of love and that she don’t realise how near the deep endhe is; and Palpatien: who do his very best to turn Anarkin to him.

 

Light Side?

Dark Side?

Bright Side!

Behold the anthem of the Sith!

 

So do you think the Jedi being mono-chromatic like it is a benefit or a hindrance?