Lit Bright Sith - Should we see them outside of the Old Republic?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Charlemagne19, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

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    Sep 2, 2012
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    I have been planning on seeing The Hidden Fortress and reading The Man With a Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell ever since I discovered how influential they were on the saga. I am unfamiliar with those other Eastern influences DigitalMessiah mentioned, but I am definitely curious about them to say the least.
  2. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    The Hidden Fortress is well-worth the view, much like most Kurasawa films. It's not directly related to Star Wars but you get a sense of the kind of humor that George Lucas lost between the OT and the Prequels. The movie is basically one long contrast between the suffering peasants (Artoo and 3PO's analogs) and the ridiculously noble samurai (The Samurai General and the orphaned Princess out for revenge).
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  3. tjace Force Ghost

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    I think that Charles' post above about the Force being more universalist probably works a little better. I won't deny the great influence of all the things you've listed, but there are Western/Christian concepts that match up with a few of them as well. Selfless vs selfish matches up well with the Golden Rule, and all people having a personal dark side is consistent with the concept of total depravity based on the Fall. Just for a few examples.
  4. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

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    These things tend to line up largely because a great many morals systems, western and eastern, share the same basic approach towards ethics. At least insofar as "what" is wrong but not "why". The notion of the Golden Rule is marginally compatible with the Jedi notion of selflessness, not as anything planned but as a serendipitous coincidence. Particularly since something like the concept of agape shares similarity with Taoist notions. "Act without expectation", "A great love is a courageous one", ect.

    But these compatible notions don't seem to stem from a heavily intentional paradigm.
  5. HWK-290 Jedi Master

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    Jul 29, 2013
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    I want to take a moment to point out that the Golden Rule is a universal concept, not just a Western/Christian one.
    Last edited by HWK-290, Sep 11, 2013
  6. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    As they say, every religion wants to "claim" Star Wars as their own.
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  7. tjace Force Ghost

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    That's great to hear, although I've only known about the Judeo-Christian one until now. But that just supports what I was trying to say, that the Force should be universalist and not limited to one interpretation, east or west.
  8. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    The concept of the Force as an energy field is by its very nature drawing more influence from eastern traditions than from the Abrahamic religions. Certainly there are enough influences to go around throughout the saga, but I think fans are projecting God or Allah or Yahweh onto the Force.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 11, 2013
  9. Gamiel Force Ghost

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    Christian theologies has declared that God is everywhere and in everything, that sounds a bit like the Force
  10. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    God is a transcendent entity with agency; the Force is an immanent energy field without agency.
  11. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

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    The creation of the chosen one proofs that the force has agency.
  12. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    No it isn't. It could have been done by Plagueis or an equilibrium response.
  13. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

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    "Chosen one" = someone who is "chosen" by someone or something.
  14. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

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    Jul 30, 2000
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    That's an issue of disagreement. I go with Qui Gon's interpretation.

    Though, admittedly, my idea is the Will of the Force is the sum-consensus of all beings in the Force.

    One who is many.
  15. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Monopsychism. I think it's a valid intepretation.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 11, 2013
  16. tjace Force Ghost

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    What is the Will of the Force then? Why is it called a Will if the Force is without agency?
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  17. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    "Well, yes. But you must understand that not even the Jedi know all there is to be known about the Force; no mortal mind can. We speak of the will of the Force as someone ignorant of gravity might say it is the will of a river to flow to the ocean: it is a metaphor that describes our ignorance. The simple truth -- if any truth is ever simple -- is that we do not truly know what the will of the Force may be. We can never know. It is so far beyond our limited understanding that we can only surrender to its mystery."
  18. tjace Force Ghost

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    Right, but its will does exist, even if it is unknowable. (What's that quote from again?)
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  19. HWK-290 Jedi Master

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    Jul 29, 2013
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    I wish God would obey my commands. No, prayer doesn't count.

    ...also, the supernatural entity made me do it.
    Last edited by HWK-290, Sep 11, 2013
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  20. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Obi-Wan in Revenge of the Sith (novel). The quote indicates that what the Jedi call the will of the Force may very well be a guiding principle governing the Force as gravity directs the flow of a river toward sea level. Or it may not.
    The way Anakin's "creation" is depicted by Luceno in Darth Plagueis is most reminiscent of Jung's enantiodromia.
    Last edited by DigitalMessiah, Sep 11, 2013
  21. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

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    Because the language is used to capture an underlying sentiment, which is an entity that has an effect on the world. Fate, Serendipity, Destiny. These words also capture the fundamental notion that the galaxy is subject to a power that is "higher" than them. But this does not mean that power is a thinking being. The Force has a will as much as flowing water that moves around a rock has a will.
    DigitalMessiah likes this.
  22. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

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    And chosen one is also only weird language? lmao You guys are hilarious.
  23. DigitalMessiah Chosen One

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    Are we operating under the assumption that the Force decreed in a booming voice from the heavens that there would be a Chosen One? :confused:
  24. AlyxDinas Force Ghost

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    The term "Chosen One" is derived from a prophecy which comes from individuals. It is a legend, a created thing made by individuals the same way that the notion of the Sith'ari was created by the Kissai. As a side note: if you really have no other response than "lmao", you might want to reconsider responding at all.
  25. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

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    Now that you talk about it, the "voice" of the force is a common theme in the saga. The Jedi frequently tell their padawans to listen to the force or communing with the force. The force communicates, it just doesn't use language.

    The force visions (often warnings) also remind me of communication.