Bringing Anakin's Mother with Them.

you're contending that she was completely, irreversibly cowed by the prospect of haggling with a merchant?

Not cowed. Watto was not willing to sell Shmi. Period. And the bomb inside Shmi prevented Padme from engineering a more dramatic escape.

 

Watto was not willing to sell Shmi. Period.

Not true , as the events in aotc prove .

g

 

Question: Is it legal for Padme to buy Shmi? I mean, say the US President goes to a country where slavery exists, buys a slave, and then subsequently frees them. Is that legal to do? I would think they would be prosecuted for it. Wouldn't the republic find out and oust Padme for participating in slave labor?

Qui freed Anakin without any such problems.

Watto was not willing to sell Shmi. Period.

Even if, for some unfathomable reason, Watto would have refused to sell Shmi for all the money in the galaxy (despite having "lost everything"), Padme wouldn't have known that, because she never, ever tried.

 

We're going in circles here. We don't see her try in TPM. Qui Gonn tells Ani that Watto won't sell his mother. Then Padme goes back to the planet she is ruler of, and helps it to recover from the illegal invasion that kills many (death toll = catastrophic).

Padme is busy. Besides, enforcing Republic law is the job of the Jedi. And Qui Gonn takes steps to help free Shmi - read Tatooine's Ghost for the explanation.

 

*round and round it goes, no don't you know*

Qui freed Anakin without any such problems.

And Watto gained nothing.

 

Even if, for some unfathomable reason, Watto would have refused to sell Shmi for all the money in the galaxy (despite having "lost everything"), Padme wouldn't have known that, because she never, ever tried.

And if we take into consideration the deleted scene from AOTC where we see a photo of Padme helping refugees, it shows even more how inconsiderate and ungrateful she is. Refugees and slaves are both in dire need, and Naboo certainly didn't crumble from her taking a few moments to help others, so she wasn't THAT busy; so what stopped her from helping Shmi?

 

We don't see her try in TPM.

Or at all, yes...

Qui Gonn tells Ani that Watto won't sell his mother.

When Padme isn't there to hear it?and even if she had been, do you think that would have been it? Does she give up that easily any other time?

Then Padme goes back to the planet she is ruler of, and helps it to recover from the illegal invasion that kills many (death toll = catastrophic).

Hologram = trick, remember?

Padme is busy.

Twenty-four-seven for ten years? Makes you wonder how she found time to stroll around Tattooine, roll around in the grass on Naboo, stroll around Tattooine again...

Besides, enforcing Republic law is the job of the Jedi.

Oh, so freeing slaves outside of the Republic is legal today.

Seriously: In what other instance does Padme sit back and say "That's not my job"? When Palpatine pledges to free Naboo? When the Jedi say they'll rescue Obi-Wan?

And Qui Gonn takes steps to help free Shmi - read Tatooine's Ghost for the explanation.

That's completely irrelevant to Padme's inaction, since even if EU were canon?today?she had no idea he was doing any of it.

Qui freed Anakin without any such problems.

And Watto gained nothing.

So wagering for slaves is perfectly legitimate, but buying or trading for them is strictly illegal. You must be pretty well-read on Republic law; which volume are you quoting from again?

 

You must be pretty well-read on Republic law; which volume are you quoting from again?

The one Padme refers to. No wonder she still supports the Republic to become Senator.

 

Hmmm. Picture America in the early 19th century. If a northerner bought a southern slave and subsequently brought him to the north and freed him, would he be prosecuted?
I realize that slavery was legal in the south, but I think that were any charges placed against Padme they would soon be dropped on account of the end result of freeing Shmi.

As far as the death-toll, I don't think Sio Bibble (what a stupid name) was necessarily lying on that part. Yes, the message was a TF trick. But consider that Sio is still an advisor to the Queen in AOTC. Would Padme and her successor keep someone in power if he had proven himself to be so weak-willed as to be threatened into participating in the trap? I think the TF somehow let Sio get the message out without thinking they were tracing the signal. I think there probably WERE large losses of life--"Our people are dying, we must do something quickly," if I recall. Surely there would be citizens who fought back against the TF forces and were subsequently killed.

 

Again... this has gone in circles for too long. Does anyone have anything new to add? Anyone?

 

Then Padme goes back to the planet she is ruler of, and helps it to recover from the illegal invasion that kills many (death toll = catastrophic).

And she's in the position to help her people as a direct result of the huge risk Shmi took in helping her . Does someone like padme ignore and forget this for 10 years ? shmi risked everything to help her . What it would cost Padme to help shmi would be a helluva lot less .

Besides, enforcing Republic law is the job of the Jedi

That law does not exist on tatooine . But even assuming that you mean the jedi rather than padme should do it - again, it's a good job shmi didn't take that attitude, she didn't say "It's not up to me to help you ; get the Jedi to do it." No she risked everything, a woman who has so little .
And what did Padme, a person who has so much do in return ? Nothing.

And Qui Gonn takes steps to help free Shmi

I'm still waiting for you to explain that . How did it take 5 years ?
And it's irrelevant to padme she knows none of it .

The one Padme refers to. No wonder she still supports the Republic to become Senator.

I haven't seen that volume either. But what I have seen is Padme as presented in the films - unwilling to wait for the law to sort out her problems, unwilling to let Anakin wait and do nothing for Obi even tho he's been given specific orders .

Makes no sense.
Lucas just didn't figure it out .

g

 

Lucas just didn't figure it out.

I think he did figure it out, but decided to keep her there so he could contrive a situation that would allow him to do the goodbye scene in TPM and cause Anakin to lose it later on in Episode 2.

It hurt the story as a result.

 

I disagree.

I think it helped the story because it serves as one of the primary factors as to why Anakin hates both Obi-wan and the Jedi Order thus prompting him to align with Darth Sidious and help destroy the Jedi.

 

I'm not saying having Shmi stay on Tatooine hurt Anakin's story, but it did hurt Padme's and made the Jedi look heartless.

 

It hurt the story as a result.

Who's story?

unwilling to let Anakin wait and do nothing for Obi even tho he's been given specific orders .

She told him Anakin to follow her lead. She's not there "only" to help Obi Wan. She's their to solve the dire situation and mess the Republic is in. After all, its the Republic she's trying to defend.

 

blame it on qui gon. if he had told anakin up front he would have to abandon his mother forever, i don't think anakin wouldve gone. qui gon lied to anakin

 

I think Qui-Gon and Padme understood that Shmi had nothing outside of Tatooine. She lived a slave's life, she was content living a slave's life, as long as her son was given the opportunity to fulfill his dreams, she was happy. She knew nothing else. "My place is here. My future is here."

What would she have done with freedom? She would've been left with no home, no job, no money. Where is she going to live? The Jedi Temple?

Could you imagine them hauling Shmi around on every adventure? The Coruscant speeder chase, there's Mom in the back seat. "I'm so very proud of yoouuu, Ani."

Dear God, she would have been more annoying than Jar-Jar.

Besides, if they had freed her, she would never have met Cliegg Lars and there would've never been an Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru.

It was the will of the Force for her to stay, and she was subsequently freed anyway, only with a much more secure future. (minus the Tusken Raiders)

 

She told him Anakin to follow her lead. She's not there "only" to help Obi Wan. She's their to solve the dire situation and mess the Republic is in. After all, its the Republic she's trying to defend.

well that's debatable since they land in secret and infiltrate a military facility without permission, that's called espionage .
Anyway, I think you're missing the point, which is that Padme encourages anakin to disobey direct orders, they land on Geonosis illegally. Obviously she's not one to wait for the law to give her permission, she does what she believes is right , that's what heroic characters do .
And none of what you've said explains why she didn't rescue Shmi .

She lived a slave's life, she was content living a slave's life,

You think padme feels Shmi is content living a slave's life ?

she was happy. She knew nothing else. "My place is here. My future is here."

Well what's she gonna say to her little boy who's upset about leaving her - "I'm in a degrading and terrible situation but you go anyway" ?
Obviously she's trying to ease the kid's mind .

What would she have done with freedom? She would've been left with no home, no job, no money. Where is she going to live?

You know that is exactly the sort of argument pro-slavers have used throughout history - that the slaves are used to it and what would they do without jobs, homes etc . ?

They'd live a free life that's what .

Shmi is obviously an intelligent and capable woman, she's not an infant, she's raised a kid on her own and survived thru quite a lot, I think she could manage to get a job .


Could you imagine them hauling Shmi around on every adventure? The Coruscant speeder chase, there's Mom in the back seat. "I'm so very proud of yoouuu, Ani."

Why would she go around with them ? That's absurd .

Besides, if they had freed her, she would never have met Cliegg Lars and there would've never been an Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru.

Well that's up to the writer, but it's easily solved - Shmi is freed shortly after TPM with help from padme, she decides to remain on Tatooine since she has friends there etc. a few years later she meets Cliegg .

problem solved. wasn't too hard .


g

 

This is such a no-brainer. The story would have been so much better if Anakin returned to Tatooine in AOTC to find out that Padme sent a representative to buy Shmi's freedom from Watto shortly after the events of TPM. When questioned by Anakin, Padme could tell him that the Jedi wanted Shmi kept away from Anakin to avoid distracting him, so instead of leaving Tatooine to live on an unfamiliar planet, she stayed put on Tatooine and fell in love with Cliegg.

This way Lucas could still have the payoff of her kidnapping and death at the hands of the Tuskens, and it would have deepened the relationship between Anakin and Padme when he finds out what she did for Shmi. Plus it would have built his resentment towards the Jedi for keeping Shmi away from him and - in his view - ultimately leading to her death by her staying on Tatooine.

 

"I'm not saying having Shmi stay on Tatooine hurt Anakin's story, but it did hurt Padme's and made the Jedi look heartless."

For the Jedi, they have rules that forbids any form of attachments to be made because as Yoda mentioned in the Episode 3 TV trailer, "The fear of loss is a path to the Dark Side". They know that if any one of them has a close connection with another, they will become distracted and do irrational things which will pull them down to the path of evil just like what is going to happen to Anakin.

For Padme, I keep hearing everyone say that she has no problem disobeying orders to do what she feels is right but what they forget is that there is a difference between disobeying orders and breaking the law because the Republic has anti-slavery laws that don't allow anyone to have slaves or make exchanges for slaves.

 

Like I've asked oh so many times, and yet to recieve a feasible answer, according to the "laws" you're claiming about the exchange of slaves, why wasn't Anakin returned to Watto as soon as he got off the ship at Coruscant? They shouldn't have bothered testing him or going before the Council, since it's illegal, the transaction should have been null and void.

 

"I'm in a degrading and terrible situation but you go anyway"

Exactly what "terrible" situation? (were they being beaten or something?) This the same woman who risks her son's life, but knowing he can help. Can you compare it?

The point is, everything is about Anakin to her, all she cares is how he can do great things. That's the focus. "Don't look back" she tells him.

Lastly, the risk of her giving her son to help, was answered by Qui Gon "I didn't come here to free slaves". The same Jedi who are protecting the Republic and the same Republic Padme remains to defend.

Qui Gon only works on Watto's weakness to get what he finds important ala Anakin. It really isn't about Padme doing something, but to keep the Story focus on Ani.

 

I still can't imagine why Padme would have left Shmi that way, but then, it's obvious GL wanted to follow up with that part of the SW in AOTC. That is the real reason she was left there, for AOTC's sake.

 

That is the real reason she was left there

So are you saying Shmi should have been taken out of Tattoine? Or she should have been just freed? Eventually Shmi was freed and lived with someone who loved her. I think it makes for a better Story.

 

It could have worked several ways, we could have found out, through some dropping of dialogue here and there, that Padme had helped Cliegg free Shmi. She could have told Anakin, when he started having his visions that she had freed Snmi, that she had not forgotten Shmi's generousity; and that when she went back to repay it, she met Cliegg at Watto's shop (or whatever he had in lieu of a shop) and helped Cliegg free her. She could metion that she saw the potential for love and helped the romantic soul in Cliegg. That way, when they arrive at the Lars homestead, Cliegg could greet Padme when she arrives, thanking her for the favor and then inform her and Anakin of what's happened. It could have worked, preserving "Anakin's story" and keeping Padme a noble figure.

If anything, it could have streamlined AOTC by skipping the visit to Watto's shop and going straight to the Lars Homestead, allowing for more time with Owen and Beru and developing a bond with them and Anakin. Imagine seeing Anakin alone in the Lars garage, after bringing back Shmi, and Owen coming in. The could talk a bit, where Anakin tells Owen that when he's feeling depressed, he likes to fix things. Owen could say that he's the same way, that's why he had the garage made; they can talk about how great Shmi was, and that they both loved her like a mother. The two could bond, and at that moment, Padme comes in. Owen sees that the two could use a moment alone and takes that as a cue to leave. That's when Anakin opens up and tells her about the Tusken slaughter. That bonding moment would give more credence to his comment about the Lars being good people.

Fast forward a few screen minutes to when R2 arrives with the message from Obi-wan, and Owen could try to talk Anakin into staying on the farm. That he likes Anakin and wants to get to know him better. Anakin could be reluctant in staying, until he decides to go help Obi-wan. Padme at that point decides to go with Anakin. He tells her that it's something he has to do on his own, basically move the speech he gives her before leaving for the search for Shmi to this point, and her refusing to accept. The more he pushes her, the more she goes to him, helping him in anything he needs to do. That way Anakin is seen as a more assertive character and Padme showing her love for him. That way, when they leave, Owen can feel a bit of resentment for this "Obi-wan" that took his step-brother on some "damned fool idealistic crusade."

They could have even used it as part of the romance as well; where it was something she'd been waiting to see Anakin for so she could tell him. It would build up their mutual need to see each other, so that way it wouldn't be a one-sided love. I can assure you, if she'd done that for Shmi, Anakin would have a more solid reason to love Padme than just superficial reasons.