Bringing Balance to the Force: In what way did Anakin fulfill the prophecy?

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Protege-of-Thrawn, Feb 2, 2003.

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  1. Protege-of-Thrawn

    Protege-of-Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Mar 14, 2001
    Now with only Episode III to come, we all have a fair idea of the chronology and trials that have taken Anakin Skywalker, the Blake-like image of child/cherubum innocence (complete with his discussion of Angels in Watto's Yard, TPM) through the isolated and disciplined existence of a Jedi, and the inevitable decline into Darkness as the naive and raw innocence opens a path in his soul to the Sith Teachings, as his life culminates into the formation of "Darth Vader".

    The Saga is FULL of nuance and hints that may tell us exactly what Anakin's path may be, what he is symbolic of, and importantly, how this boy will one day - despite the evil and tyranny of his Sith reign - bring "Balance to the Force".

    Now, many discussions exist on how exactly he brings "balance to the Force". Is he balancing Light and Dark in some quasi-Taoist manner, or perhaps the newer theory of balancing the "Living Force" with the "Unified Force"?

    Is he perhaps shattering the "unbalanced" tenants of the Jedi Order, and through his ruthless culling of the old, has inadvertently heralded in the age of the New? (Luke Skywalker, Leia etc)

    Is it simply that he killed Palpatine, whose very existence tipped the entire galaxy - despite the weight of thousands of Jedi - towards Darkness?
    By killing the man who could influence the entire Jedi Council, did Anakin Skywalker bring the balance back to the light or status quo, despite the deaths of most of the Jedi Order?

    Or do you have a different theory?

    This question is complex one, and we have now, an entire Saga to draw upon to support our opinions and arguements with solid evidence and interpretation.

  2. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo

    CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Jul 1, 2000
    I believe he fulfilled the prophecy by killing all the Jedi except for the few who survived (Obi and Yoda) and killing Darth Sidious.

    IMHO Darth Sidious is the equivalent of 10,000 Jedi. The Force just could not have either amount existing anymore. Lets say it was causing a tear in the time space continuium and so the Force created Anakin to fix it. By killing Sidious and the Jedi he brought balance.

    My theory probably has a bunch of holes in it. *shrugs*
  3. merlin

    merlin Jedi Master star 4

    May 29, 1999
    [color=663300]Well, Yoda talks about the Darkside clouding everything. I'm not sure what "bringing balance to the Force" means but I assume it's to balance out the Forces of Light and Dark. I don't mean the number of people that are Light or Dark users, but defeating the darkside itself. Anakin was given over to the Darkside and he defeated it, as well as killed Palpatine, therefore bringing balance. The Light and Dark side of the Force in ROTJ is balanced because the Dark side is no longer stonger and more present. [/color]
  4. CmdrMitthrawnuruodo

    CmdrMitthrawnuruodo Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Jul 1, 2000
    Then the Lightside is stronger then the Darkside and does not bring balance.

    Hears another theory; that Palpatine and Anakin were both created to bring balance to the Force. Palpatine was to destroy the Jedi and Anakin was to be the remaining Jedi equal in power to Palpatine. Therefore bringing balance to the Force. But when Anakin fell to the Darkside it screwed things up in the Force's grand cosmic plan.

    So the Force created Luke Skywalker and Princes Leia to bring balance.

    You have two powerful Darksiders and two powerful Lightsiders. Thats balance IMO.

    And you know how mortals are. They just can't stick to the grand cosmic plan. So they kill both Darksiders and you're stuck with two Lightsiders. Now the question is; is Luke Skywalker tainted with the Darkside when Palpatine was trying to seduce him and Luke lashed out in anger TWICE?

    Does that bring balance with him tainted with the Darkside and Leia an untrained Lightsider?
  5. merlin

    merlin Jedi Master star 4

    May 29, 1999
    [color=663300]Well, when I say that the Darkside and the Lightside were balanced, I wasn't saying that they were balanced because of the amount of people who use either side. I don't believe it has anything to do with how many people use the Light or Dark side.

    What I meant was that the Darkside is no longer more powerful. It is not trying to gain more control, or clouding jedi's minds anymore. I'm saying that the lightside and the darkside are equal in power at the time of ROTJ. I don't assume that just becuase the good guys win, that the Lightside is more powerful. I'd say they are equal. But that's just my way of thinking. Hopefully George will show us what he REALLY means by bringing balance to the Force. :)[/color]
  6. Darth-Stryphe

    Darth-Stryphe Former Mod and City Rep star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Apr 24, 2001
    What I want to know is, why (in TPM) did the Council seem to think the Force needed balancing? They didn't know about the Sith (for certain), so why were they so eager to receive the prophecy?

    Also, to get back to the original question, PoT, I'm not convinced Anakin is the choosen one. I still think it's Luke. Without Luke, Anakin is lost and the dark side donimates the light side.
  7. Qui-Gon Tim

    Qui-Gon Tim Memphis, TN FanForce Chapter Rep star 5

    Apr 1, 2000
    I see Star Wars as a classic battle between good and evil. So, in that aspect, I would argue that Anakin brings balance by destroying the Dark Side, whose very existence is what caused imbalance in the first place.
  8. dArTh_wenley

    dArTh_wenley Jedi Knight star 5

    Dec 10, 2001

    The Jedi were groing complacent, they weren't functioning as they used to.

    They were far too sure of themselves! They thought they were invincible. There was only a few Jedi that had a realistic view of what they were capable of like Yoda, Mace, Qui-Gon and possibly Obi-Wan. Their ability to use the force had deminished. They were weak, so weak in fact that they were unable to detect the prescense of the Sith controlling the galaxy.

    By killing off many of the Jedi, he bought forward a new age for Jedi. A better age. The new Jedi could keep things in perspective and be better for it.

    That fulfils the first "part" of the prophecy. The fact that he did while using the Dark Side is irrevelent. He still bought balance regardless if it was through the light or dark side. After all, it is still the force.

    Now, this wouldn't have all happened if the Emperor still had complete power. With Luke rendered harmless, Vader and the Emperor could have continued their reign of terror on the galaxy.

    Then Anakin drops Palpatine down the shaft completing the second part of the prohecy and restoring balance to the force.

  9. Strilo

    Strilo Manager Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Aug 6, 2001
    I like the idea that the Force is like a giant pool. The Jedi using the force does not disturb the water, but the very nature of the Sith accessing the Dark Side of the Force is like throwing big rocks into the pool, thus created a disturbed surface and disabling the ability of anyone using the force to see into the depths. Thus the Dark Side clouds everything, as we see in Episode II.

    So the Sith have been keeping the Force a little out of balance all along. When they actively began to pursue their revenge against the Jedi, their activity increased to the point where the disturbances of the Force created by the Sith are disrupting things for the Jedi.

    When Anakin turns back to the good side, destroying Vader and killing the Emperor, he puts an end to the Sith and brings balance (calmness to the pool) to the Force.
  10. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Nov 28, 2000
    The pool analogy is very apt. I like it. :D
  11. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 19, 1999
    I have a somewhat different take on this, and it goes back to a Yoda line in ESB:

    "Only a fully trained Jedi will conquer Vader and his Emperor."

    This statement is strange in and of itself because from what we know, plenty of people who were what passed for Jedi in the Old Republic era fought against Vader and Palpy after they revealed themselves as Sith lords, yet none of them were able to defeat the Sith. Luke, after being told he has learned all he needs to know to be a Jedi, is also unable to defeat the Emperor in RotJ, because he throws his lightsaber away. The person who ultimately defeated both Vader and the Emperor was Anakin Skywalker. So, considering these facts in light of Yoda's prediction, we can conclude that Anakin was the only fully-trained Jedi out of Luke and all the Old Republic Jedi combined.

    So, what was unique about Anakin that allowed him to rebalance the Force and made him more worthy of the title of Jedi than those who had come before? I think the difference is Anakin is the only person we know of who used and came to term with both the light and the dark side of the Force. No Sith lord has been able to do this, by definition, since they only use the dark side and most of them are failed Jedi anyway, meaning they were unable to come to terms with the light side. On the flip side, the Old Republic Jedi were not allowed to confront the dark side at all. This was precisely the reason Anakin snapped and became a Sith lord in the first place - he was expected to completely repress all human emotions he had, such as passion, anger, and fear. But at the end of Anakin's life, he was able to rise above both dark side and light side.

    Is it possible that the dichotomy of the Force perceived by its previous practitioners, dark side and light side, was a completely arbitrary distinction? By the time of the OT, Yoda had apparently come to realize that the living/unifying Force distinction was meaningless, since he never taught it to Luke, but he did not see the same about the dark side and the light side. However, I think Yoda did come close to making this realization. The AotC novelization states that Yoda went into meditation on the dark side to resolve the mysteries plaguing him, which was a rare thing for a Jedi to do. Again, is it significant that it was one of the wisest Jedi who permitted the distinctions between light and dark side to blur?

    When Vader shafted Palpy (pun intended... HAHAHA I'm so funny! ;) ), he didn't just destroy the Sith, but he destroyed the future of the practice of the Force entirely. After Anakin's death, Luke was the last Force user in the galaxy, and there's no real reason to believe he would have developed any further as a Jedi after that. There was no need for him to do so, since the Force's will was complete. Hence there were no new Jedi and no new Sith, no distinctions between light and dark being made, and balance was achieved.
  12. merlin

    merlin Jedi Master star 4

    May 29, 1999
    [color=663300]Well there goes [/color]Mara[color=663300] writing one of her novels again. ;)

    I think that her idea of the balance makes more sense, but I don't agree totally. I agree in the sense that both light and dark are equal in ROTJ. Neither side has power over the other. I don't agree that it's balanced because Anakin was able to use both sides. I think the balance came when Palpatine was detroyed becuase he was using the Darkside solely for personal gain. He was abusing the force to get what he wanted. That's where the imbalance occurs I believe. If there were only lightside users of the force around, whether it's 1 or 1,000,000, they aren't using the force for any reason other than the good of the whole. They are instruments in carrying out the will of the Force. [/color]
  13. Katriel

    Katriel Jedi Padawan star 4

    Nov 5, 2000
    Isn't that where darkness begins? When one uses it for their own selfish purposes? Power is lust. Those who use the dark seek it and thrive on it.

    I think Anakin managed to "even the score" by killing Palpatine. The cloud of darkness that Palpatine had enshrouded the galaxy in was finally lifted. The light was finally able to shine through. There will always be dark to go along with the light. There has to be in order for there to always be a balance of the Force. For Luke and his successors to think their task is finished because Palpatine is dead is naive and dangerous to the light. What Anakin has begun must be continued or another Palpatine could rise again.
  14. Shara_82

    Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jan 10, 2001
    I think that Anakin brought balance by killing Palpatine. Yes, there may have been 10000 Jedi in the galaxy at one point, compared to two Sith. However one man, our good old Palpatine, managed to bring darkness to the entire galaxy solely though his will.

    By killing Palpatine he gave every being in the galaxy their free will back, as well as giving the light side and the dark side the chance to build up their strength in tandem, instead of forcing the dark side's dominance on everyone.
  15. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Jun 19, 1999
    I think the balance came when Palpatine was detroyed becuase he was using the Darkside solely for personal gain.

    But how is that different from what any other Sith lord did? Abuse of the Force should be abuse of the Force, no matter how many planets the Force-user controls at the time. For some reason, the Force started slipping out of balance only at the time the two following events occurred:

    1) The Sith revealed themselves to the Jedi, and
    2) The Chosen One became a Jedi.

    So, it was probably one or both of those things that began the decline.

    Edit: And leave my novels ALONE! :p
  16. merlin

    merlin Jedi Master star 4

    May 29, 1999
    [color=663300]the Force started slipping out of balance only at the time the two following events occurred:

    1) The Sith revealed themselves to the Jedi, and
    2) The Chosen One became a Jedi.

    No, I think the Force began to slip out of balance when Palpatine started making his moves. I think the darkside had clouded the Jedi's minds for so long, it wasn't until the Sith actually revealed themselves that they realized that they were blinded by the darkside.[/color]
  17. General Kenobi

    General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Dec 31, 1998
    Some excellent thoughts so far.

    Here are some questions to ponder:

    1. Does "balance" mean harmony?

    If so, then the Jedi/Sith conflict that begins in TPM (including Anakin's discovery) disrupts the harmony (or the "pool" if you will). When Palpy gets tossed and Anakin returns, the harmony is restored.

    2. Does balance mean "equality" of volume or magnitude?

    3. Are there two "sides" of the Force (Dark and Light) that need to be balanced (Yin/Yan?), or is there just "the Force", and it is how people use it that makes them "Dark-Siders" or "Light-Siders"?

    The "how-is-the-Force-being-used" option fits the struggle between Good and Evil better, in terms of Anakin's (and Luke's) temptation. Using hate to control the Force is quicker and easier (but then it also controls/consumes you!).

    The "two-sides-balanced" idea could break down into...well, there are 500 trillion dark-side midichlorians and 500 trillion light-side midichlorians...ack! Did I just say that? :p There is good reason to think of the Force in terms of Yin/Yan energy, I guess.

    4. Is there really significance to the living/unifying Force division?

    I didn't see a lot of development of this idea in AOTC. Perhaps Qui-Gon is the key figure here, and we will learn the significance in Ep. III. I guess it would seem to me that Palpy is using mostly the unifying Force, and perhaps the Qui-Gon/Anakin connection that follows the living Force helps fulfill the prophecy.

    5. How significant is the "will of the Force"?

    How much of this is Anakin's destiny?
  18. Darth_Dagsy

    Darth_Dagsy Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Nov 18, 2000
    I agree with what Wenley said. The Jedi were complacent and arrogant.

    I'll expand, however. I dont think the Jedi were serving the will of the Force.

    They were serving the will of the Republic. Even if the Republic was doing the wrong thing, the Jedi still served its purposes. When Palpatine came to power, this problem became more exagerated.

    It was no longer about the Force, but about the Republic.

    Things had to change. The Force had to shake things up. Make the Jedi get back to basics.

    When Anakin killed the Emperor and then died, the last vestiges of the old system passed away. It was just Luke. A Jedi that was in touch with the will of the force, and just wanted to use it to do good. Not to serve the ever-corrupted purposes of a political body.

    Sure, he might have gone ahead and worked in rebuilding the Republic. I dont know. But it wouldnt be the same role as the old Jedi. It wouldnt have been the same corrupt Republic.

    So, yeah, the need to balance the force could have been the need to change the way the Jedi work. To refocus on the Force, and not the misuse of it.
  19. QueenPadme

    QueenPadme Jedi Youngling star 1

    Jan 15, 2003
    I like a lot of what Mara said. I had a similar idea, but I hadn't thought of it in terms of Anakin using both the light and dark sides of the force.

    My thought was that Anakin was the first person (that we know of anyway) to undergo a conversion FROM the dark side TO the light side. A lot a dialogue from Yoda and Obi-Wan in both the PT and OT points to the idea that once you start down the path to the dark side, it controls you and you are lost forever. (This always seemed at odds with their assertion that the dark side isn't more powerful than the light side.) But, that's why Yoda and Obi-Wan believed that Luke had to destroy Vader and the Emperor--they didn't believe it was possible for them to come back to the light side.

    However, Anakin was able to convert back the light side, showing that the force indeed works in both directions. Evil is not absolute, and you control your own fate.

    There are a lot of dichotomies in SW--dark/light sides of the force, destiny/self will, father/son, unifying/living force.

    There is much more I could say on this--the theme of father/son (son is the only hope to redeem the sins of the father--interesting that Anakin is the only Jedi we know that produced offspring, and it was he son that helped to bring him back to the light side), the ideas about the Jedi losing touch with nature and instead serving the Republic, etc.

    I think the balance that is achieved involves balancing all of these ideas.
  20. lordvaderFF

    lordvaderFF Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 29, 2000
    I think Anakin brings balance because he's the father of Luke.

    Luke brings Vader back from the dark side and is a major player in the downfall of the Emperor.

    So, it could be said that Luke is the one that fulfills the prophecy and brings balance to the Force by destorying the dark side and bringing everything back to harmony.
  21. Obi-Ewan

    Obi-Ewan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jan 24, 2000
    I see Star Wars as a classic battle between good and evil. So, in that aspect, I would argue that Anakin brings balance by destroying the Dark Side, whose very existence is what caused imbalance in the first place.

    I know I'll sound like Al Borland here, but "Thank you Tim." That's how Lucas designed it. Anakin brings balance by killing Palpatine.
  22. Obi-Ewan

    Obi-Ewan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Jan 24, 2000
    I think Anakin brings balance because he's the father of Luke.

    That would make Luke the one who brings balance. Anakin brings balance, and does it directly.
  23. neeldawg66

    neeldawg66 Jedi Master star 8

    Mar 21, 2002
    I've always thought of it pretty simply, as a few people have already mentioned. Anakin brings balance by killing Palpatine. I've always been of the opinion that the is meant to used for the good of all beings but like many other things in the GFFA(and real life), it can be taken advantage of and used for evil purposes. And when Palpatine came to be Emperor, there was a serious imbalance (sp?) in the Force.

    For my ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. Its energy surrounds us, and binds us.-Yoda
  24. Gorin_Zachian

    Gorin_Zachian Jedi Padawan star 4

    May 13, 2002
    M<y theroy is probaly full of holes and not wel lreserched, as well as annoys alot of people, but i belive that Yoda dn Boi-wan defied the force.

    The force was over-burdened with all those people pulling on it at once, both the dark and the light, it dosen't matter in what amount. The fact is that the force wanted there to be no more use of itself, and so created Vader to kill all the jedi, thereby removing much of it burden. vader was then, evenutally, to kill Palpitine and in that battle, die himself. Yoda and obi-Wan defied the force by training luke, and kept it out of balance. I don't think vbder DID bring balance to the force, but he got close, only the trechery of yoda nd obi-Wan prevented it from happening.
  25. ObidioJuan

    ObidioJuan Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Nov 1, 2002
    Well, if you guys really want to know how the bring balance to the force plays out. Do this.

    Get a copy of ANH SE. And see the GL interview that is included b4 the movie.

    In it GL will say that Anakin will eventualy bring the force to balance by killing the emperor and destroying the DS.

    So, straight from the source. Balance to the force in GL mind is no Dark Side. Plain and simple.

    Of course we can argue about that Luke had a bit of the DS in him and all that and that only Good side is an imbalance. But I personaly feel that the Force is in balance within Luke, and also in Leia.
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