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Discussion in 'Fan Films, Fan Audio & SciFi 3D' started by Azeem, Feb 24, 2002.

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  1. crutag-ventor

    crutag-ventor Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jan 29, 2002
    JediTAC --

    That was very inspirational. I will show your post to the others working on our film! And to answer your question, ?Are you saying that Fan Filmmaking isn't fun?? Yes it is fun. ?WHY ARE YOU DOING IT?. To be a part of those who give entertainment to the people who need more than just one movie every three years, and the dream is to be hosted here at TFN.

    Do they have a release date for BA yet?
  2. pahket

    pahket Jedi Padawan star 4

    Apr 6, 2001
    TAC, have you considered a career as a motivational speaker?

    "Well, you'll have plenty of time for lightsaber rotoin' when you're...LIVING IN A VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!!!"

  3. JediTAC

    JediTAC Jedi Knight star 5

    Nov 30, 2000
  4. pahket

    pahket Jedi Padawan star 4

    Apr 6, 2001
    I knew you wouldn't get it, TAC. :( On the other hand, it's nice to know that there's somebody *else* who surfs the net all day and frequents these boards in almost illegal excess...

    In any case, that was the most impressive trailer I've seen in a dog's age. The shot of Vader walking to his shuttle immediately made me think of ROTJ. Daaahhh, goosebumps all over! Excellent work, guys. If this is any indication of how well the film will do, then I think you guys have got a hardcore fan in waiting.
  5. JediTAC

    JediTAC Jedi Knight star 5

    Nov 30, 2000
    Nah ... I just have a high-paying cushy job that allow me to do pretty much whatever I want. ;)

    And I still don't get it. :confused:
  6. Master_Comyn

    Master_Comyn Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 17, 2000

    LOL!!! [face_laugh]
  7. VanB

    VanB Jedi Youngling

    Aug 19, 2001
    All I can say is, as a close insider to the BA production crew, Vidman has basically worked as a sound recordist for the past 10 years (on corporate videos, news crews, at sporting events etc etc). He also works as a cameraman occasionally, but as far as film making is concerned, BA is his first significant production (he made a short student film on 16mm about 10 years ago). Vids has always dreamed about being a director, which is why when the chance to do BA came along, he has thrown himself into it head first. I can categorically state that every person on the crew was a volunteer, working for free and purely for the love of it, and the great majority of talent both behind and in front of the camera DO NOT DO WHAT THEY DID ON B.A as their day job. (For example, one of the main kick ass CG effects team members is a vet by day). They're all just dreamers wanting to create something special to be proud of, and that hopefully visitors to tfn will enjoy. The thing is, Vids sets high standards for himself and for others - even if they are not professionals by day, he wants a professional looking result. And this takes a LOT of TIME and organisation, a lot of begging and screaming and amazing generosity from the crew Vids assembled who were all capable of bringing something special to the table. Vids has been lucky in that people have heard about the production and come out of the woodwork to be a part of it. The costume designer, for example, spent months putting the costumes together at night in his apartment. He's not a professional costume maker, but he sure is talented, and maybe one day he can do it full time.

    The music composer is studying at uni and is a high school music teacher by trade... The actors were among a whole bunch of people who love Star Wars and showed up one Sunday morning for auditions in a hall and put in a great performances, followed by months of rehearsal in Vids' living room...the set designer is a scientist...the list goes on.

    Anyone can look up the Yellow Pages and hire a studio that offers green screen for a couple of hundred bucks. It was the studio hire, the costume materials, and the food that cost Vids and Suddy the most $$ - around $3,500 Australian all up, I think. Everything else has been the result of hard work. That's it. That's the secret. Oh, and the fact that home computers have become way more powerful in the last couple of years!

    This wouldn't have been possible to make from home five years ago.

    I just don't think it's fair to assume Broken Allegiance is beyond anyone's capabilities when I know first hand that it's come down to tenacity, the luck involved in assembling a great group of talented people who wanted to be a part of making a short movie and were WILLING to donate their time and skill, and the fact that you can now edit movies on your homecomputer.

    Plus Vids has got, talent, vision, and time on his hands in between working that he's devoted to BA almost continuously for the past year. Not everyone has that luxury.

    So hopefully you guys will enjoy the results of all the hard work. :D

  8. JediTAC

    JediTAC Jedi Knight star 5

    Nov 30, 2000
  9. wixmmm

    wixmmm Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jun 8, 2001
    Broken Allegiance guys, Broken Allegiance.


    I love making fanfilms... it is my release. My job is CGI Programming, I love that, but if I need to relax, I bring out some clips from my movie and work on them.

    I have no budget whatsoever. For our close-to-release metal gear solid fanfilm, we had 26 bucks and some supplies from school.

    We used the 26 bucks to Carls Jr. before our second shooting time (yes, they have Carls in Mexico...).

    We went and we filmed and we had a great time, it is what we love to do, and if I were to look at this trailor and feel jealous, I would know that fanfilm making isn't for me. Sure everyone wants to make something people will like, but too often people are worried that that if they have a sucker and the other person has a tootsie pop their sucker will taste worse (sorry for the crappy analogy, but I'm pressed for time here.).

    TAC is right, each film NEEDS to be based on it's own merits, and this film just happens to have a particularily LARGE amount of merits.

    You don't need a budget to make a fanfilm. You don't need to know about professional lighting.
    You don't need to know how to model and animate is 3d.

    You just need to WANT to make a movie.

    And in my opinion, that is ALL that matters... lately with the drought of fanfilms, ANYONE who GETS A MOVIE DONE automatically earns my respect.

  10. Zayn

    Zayn Jedi Youngling star 3

    Aug 1, 1999
    trailer looked cool but I felt it gave waaaay to much away

    how long will this film be anyway?
  11. TheCrow

    TheCrow Jedi Youngling star 1

    Oct 23, 2001
    Wow! I have not typed on here for a while. But when I saw the second trailer to BA, I was like...Damn that looks great! I can't wait to see the whole thing! Great work guys!
  12. icicle

    icicle Jedi Youngling star 1

    Nov 27, 2000
    I think Broken Allegiance looks to be a great movie. And I admire that Vidman is taking the time and effort to put into such a huge production. I am not knocking his skill at all. But to claim on the website that 10 years of working in television and film as well as making student films and then say that he is an amateur is ludicrous. Obviously he has gained a lot of experience in the medium. Sure it is his first film that is really "his". But that doesn't change the fact that this is a decent sized production. And here is a quote from the website
    "After high school I studied filmmaking and media for a few years. Bit by bit I began to learn the craft, always dreaming of one day directing my first feature film as I slogged it out on student short films in every crew role going."
    "For the past ten years I have worked professionally in the film and TV industry in various production roles, from sound and camera to producing and directing independent documentaries and shorts."

    The fact that people are volunteering and aren't professionals in the industry themselve doesn't change the fact that they are there to do all of the necessary gruntwork that a professional looking film requires. I guess I am a bit confused. The website builds it up like it's a huge production. Yet now it is being played down. It can't be both. Heck.....some of the behind the scenes featurettes are higher quality than some fan films! And they sure build up the whole "big production" attitude. I for one expect big things from this film. Mainly because it has been hyped as a "big" film. Nothing wrong with that! I like big films.

    My whole thing here is where do we stop the fan film genere? If Spielberg wants to post a film here is that ok? Sure he is a professional but he's a fan so that makes it ok that he would smoke everybody's film here.
    Then TFN will raise the bar again so that only a film from a major studio can be hosted. That is ultimately what I "don"t" want to see. (obviously an exaggeration but bad things can happen)

    Vidman....great trailer and I look forward to seeing the film. It looks great. I apologize for monopolizing your thread with this garbage. It needs to be discussed but not on your thread. Sorry.


  13. lordvaderFF

    lordvaderFF Jedi Master star 4

    Nov 29, 2000 many response.

    The trailer is awesome and is a credir to everyone that has worked on it.

    Next, the comments on Vader. (a subject close to me heart.)

    Yes the helmet is too small and yes it is an Altmann helmet, but one of his very early ones and not the best design.

    However, since filming BA, the helmet has been replaced with a Don Post and looks much better.

    As for being compared to the Vader in KQ, he was a bit on the skinny side for my liking, and had a bit more scope for showing movement etc the the BA Vader.

  14. DaftMaul

    DaftMaul Former TFN Fan Films Staff star 5 VIP

    Feb 18, 2001
    I don't know why, but I really like the shot where the two heroes look up and see the SSD way above in the atmoshere. I guess it's just not a shot I've seen tried before.
  15. Animaster

    Animaster Jedi Padawan star 4

    Mar 12, 2001

    That was one of the best and coolest trailers I have ever seen! I was drooling as a watched it agaain, and again, and again...

    *goes off to se trailer again*
  16. JediTAC

    JediTAC Jedi Knight star 5

    Nov 30, 2000
    My whole thing here is where do we stop the fan film genere? If Spielberg wants to post a film here is that ok? Sure he is a professional but he's a fan so that makes it ok that he would smoke everybody's film here. Then TFN will raise the bar again so that only a film from a major studio can be hosted. That is ultimately what I "don"t" want to see. (obviously an exaggeration but bad things can happen)

    icicle . . . . . .
    What is this proverbial "bar" you keep speaking of? And since when has TFN ever said that only a certain "level" of film will be admitted and accepted?

    You know what this all sounds like to me ..... ENVY - pure and simple.

    So Nick has a lot of friends willing to help.
    So he has some television/film expeirence under his belt.
    So he has access to utilize some good equipment.
    SO WHAT ???

    Tell me something, icicle .... if YOU had access to the equipment that Nick does, are yout telling me that YOU would not utilize it? Are you upset because you think he has more friends than YOU to help him with his film? Are you envious that he was able to find a friend who was a composer who was willing to write some original music for the film? Are you envious of the extra effort and attention to detail that Nick has put into his website, his featurettes, his movie poster??

    I just cannot, for the life of me, understand what is bugging you so badly.
    WHY are you feeling threatened?

    Nick is FORTUNATE enough to have some experience under his belt, and some good friends willing to help him. And for this you are going to criticize him and anyone else who may be fortunate enough to have similar resources available to them?

    Is it UNFAIR that ZAYN is a film student and may have the use of a soundstage?

    Is it UNFAIR that Crew of Two spent their own money to rent a greenscreen studio for their film?

    Is it unfair that some people are able to vacuuform their own Stormtrooper costumes?

    NO .... and they should not be singled out or thought any differently because of it. They simply are using the resources, talents, and inginuity that they are fortunate enough to have available to them.

    And please stop this nonsense about "the TFN bar being raised." This TFN Bar is a figment of imagination. The only people who believe in this imaginary "raising bar" are those who are either too intimidated by another's work to produce their own, or are too insecure about their own abilities and talents.

    Seriously ..... it's no different than the Hollywood Studios and Directors/Producers out there. Not all of them have the same resources and money available to them ... but does that STOP them from making movies ??? Of course not. And how many times have we seen the small-budget motion pictures walk away with award after award?? MANY MANY times.

    So ..... if one cannot get over this inner envy they have of another person's talents, inginuity, creativity, and good fortune to have help and support ..... then perhaps one needs to step back and let someone who believes in himself enough to utilize what he has and give it a run.

    It's just so disappointing to see so much intimidation and insecurity amongst some of the people here.

  17. DaftMaul

    DaftMaul Former TFN Fan Films Staff star 5 VIP

    Feb 18, 2001
    The only people who believe in this imaginary "raising bar" are those who are either too intimidated by another's work to produce their own, or are too insecure about their own abilities and talents.

    You do realize Icicle created Seeds of Darkness don't you TAC?

    (BTW, this is a major thread hijack here folks...)
  18. JediTAC

    JediTAC Jedi Knight star 5

    Nov 30, 2000
    YES ... and that's PRECISELY why I cannot understand why he is saying the things he is saying.

    And that statement was directed generally, not specifically toward icicle.
  19. wixmmm

    wixmmm Jedi Padawan star 4

    Jun 8, 2001
    Then lock it, Daft... I dare you :)

    He did talk about Nick an Aweful lot though... and I said the words Broken Allegiance thrice in my post... :)

  20. Marauder

    Marauder Jedi Youngling

    Aug 13, 2001
    Hi people,
    I've been following the thread for a while now and there have been good points made by both sides.

    Feel free to dismiss the folowing as its just a few comments from my unique little perspective on BA.

    Nicks experience is a given. Yes it may be one of the things that has made BA what it is. Did Nick call in a few favours? Sure. Wouldn't you if you had access to some of these people?

    However, what may be even more important is the drive and enthusiasm that Nick has for this project. It is infectious.

    Nick has pushed himself very hard over the last year, constantly trying to create the best film possible and setting a high standard. Those of us working with him were caught up in that and how could we not follow his example? Nicks dream became OUR dream and and we all gave our time and energy freely because of that and we all pushed ourselves to become better. I can rightly say that everyone involved took away something from working on BA.

    VISION, DRIVE and ENTHUSIASM are what creates a good film. It shows in the final product.

    I mean, how many movies have REALLY gotten you excited recently? Does anyone else feel ho-hum about the by-the-numbers big-budget movies that hollywood keeps churning out? Tired ideas/jokes etc, remakes, pointless huge stunts and even actors that look like they are just going through the paces.

    Our budget was moderate. The look of BA comes from bloody hard work. Being creative was probably the main driver in getting the sets to where they were. Hard work where the cast trained for months to learn the fight routines. Why? because they wanted to be part of BA. They could see what Nick wanted it to be and knuckled down; bruises, scrapes and pumped up forearms (and that was just Niobe).

    Not to mention that we had our own benchmark films to aspire to ourselves. KQ REALLY spurred us all on to kick it up another notch and the Tydirium trailer scared us with its production values.

    BUt we know that we've done the best job that we are able and that is enough. If it's enjoyed, discussed and dissected thats a bonus. The best things that I took away from BA were the new friends that I made and the things I learnt about the craft of film making. Something that I hope I'll do under my own banner one day.

    Excuse the length.

  21. GuanoLad

    GuanoLad Jedi Youngling star 3

    Jul 8, 1998
    I wish I could say I had something to do with this trailer, because damn it's good, but I didn't really. Except in a very minor incidental way (storyboards).

    You know, it's possible to make a kick-ass fanfilm with three actors, two rooms, a couple of costumes, and a video camera. It's not the special effects that make it a quality film.

    When you do want good quality effects you utilise your circle of talented friends, networking with people who know people. In Melbourne, there is an incestuous core group, people from all walks of life, all genders, all age groups, all levels of experience, who like to make films. Each person who has had a walk-on part as a stormtrooper in one film also wants to write/direct/create CGI/build props/design costumes/act in another film, and soon enough you get a very experienced bunch - mixed in with newbies who will (soon enough) be part of the core team too.

    That's the pool of talent Nick was lucky enough to draw on - some of whom he's known for years, some he only recently met for this project. But not only has he managed to utilise their talents brilliantly, he's also managed to expand the core team some more, which will benefit all of us.

    Nobody was paid, few could be called professionals, they (we) are all amateurs with a few skills and some experience, a lot of talent and energy, and a few funky resources. And when these come together, we get something like this trailer.

    I prefer trailers not be criticised at all, but when they (inevitably) are, at least keep it minimal and realistic. They're merely clips, some not fully finished, assembled in such a way as to convey the energy of the upcoming film. So talk about that! Does it make you want to see this movie? Do you see the talents and skills involved? Can you appreciate the effort put in to entertain us?

    Criticise the final product. Leave the trailer as it stands, and either anticipate this film or don't.

    Like, who's going to pan a movie because the Vader helmet is an off-the-shelf model or the light sabres aren't as good as another film's? If that's the only kind of thing that matters to you in movies, your criticism is not welcome here.
  22. banshee

    banshee Jedi Master star 1

    Jul 14, 1998

    Well...first off, I want to congradulate the BA crew on a very well done trailer. It looks like this film is going to be the best fanfilm yet. I'm really looking forward to it.

    As to the...other thing. I am telling all of you currently in production or thinking about making a film, DO NOT BE INTIMEDATED!

    So what if you don't have the same resources as the BA or Tydirium crew, I didn't either. The trick is to get the most out of what you do have.

    Now, I know what you're thinking. You're thinking that no one will like your film because the production values aren't up to the level of the bigger productions. Not true. It just means you'll have to work a little harder on the one, single most important thing...the script.

    See, with Knightquest, as several hundred people have informed me, the script just wasn't that good. The story was kind of ok but the dialog needed work. What pulled it out for most people were the effects. Now then, if you're on the opposite end, if you don't have the money or contacts or resources to do top quality effects, then spend a little more time on the story. People will overlook an awful lot if the story is riviting.

    Now don't get me wrong, when you put 3 years into making your film, when you spend all of your money on it, and then people come along and rip sucks. It is not a good feeling. But you only need to worry about that if you're using it as a demo reel or are entering it into a competition. If that's the case, take the critisim and LEARN from it. If I ever made KQ2, it would be a hundred times better because of the lessons I took from making the original.

    But if you're just doing your movie for yourself your freinds and family...SCREW what other people say. It doesn't matter. Hopefully you and your freinds had a great time making it. Maybe you even learned a thing or two. Hopefully you had FUN.

    And that's what's really important. No matter how many people rip KQ, we all had a great time making it. It was fun. And no one can take that away.

    Sorry to the BA crew that your thread turned into another debate. Your film looks like it's going to be incredible.

    Now quit reading this and get back to work:)
  23. DorkmanScott

    DorkmanScott Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Mar 26, 2001
    TAC's gotten into the markup codes again. I thought we'd locked those up.

    Y'all really got him riled up, too, he doesn't whip those out for just anyone (well, anymore).

    For my part, I would agree that it's not important to have professionals working on your film. Clay Kronke's New World was totally a basement production, as was Brains and Steel, and he accomplished great things on both accounts to which many of us continue to strive.

    Duality...well, they involved a professional studio for the shoot, but does that make it a professional film? I would say no. The majority of it was done by Dave and Mark, in their offices, on their personal computers, in their spare time, and neither had any such experience besides Duel. (I find it amusing how many people call it "professional" as an excuse for why they can't match the quality, when really there's no excuse if you try hard enough.)

    It also depends on how much you want it, and how much you expect of yourself. If, like many, you just want to bash sticks together in your backyard and tack a "story" on, hey, I'll still watch it. I always do. It's not uncommon that they'll have something innovative worth watching. Art of the Saber, for example. Still hosted, though just a saber test (against many lodged protests by the denizens of this board, I might, and will, add).

    For my part, I've spent almost three years of my life on this film. I'm not willing to settle for "good enough", and that's my own problem. I've spent a lot of money, but I'm doing it because I want my imagination to be realized, and I'm obsessive like that.

    Make your film like you want to. They've always found an audience, and always will.

    M. Scott
  24. DaftMaul

    DaftMaul Former TFN Fan Films Staff star 5 VIP

    Feb 18, 2001
    Just to put some perspective on this thing, Icicle, if you sent in Seeds of Darkness next week 'for the first time' TFN would still want to host it, no question. There have only been a couple of films with that 'professional' tag attached to them, and we need more films than that to show. Just have a look through the latest bunch, and tell me that TFN don't accept anything that isn't shot in a soundstage by a film crew/pro's etc?

    My second connundrum. I shot Dark Skies myself, in our spare bedroom, it was an amatuer production. If a pro cameraman shoots Storm Ahead, and I can blag a greenscreen studio to shoot in, does that suddenly make Storm Ahead a professional production, even though it's all still going to be done by Moi?

    Half the fun of this is showing people what you CAN do in your basement. I've always thought that all of the hard work/skill of a fanfilm is something you end up doing in the basement anyway, be it writing that killer script, or editing, or the entire post-production effects work. Most of these films only come alive in the basement anyway...
  25. Zayn

    Zayn Jedi Youngling star 3

    Aug 1, 1999
    tac wrote:

    "Is it UNFAIR that ZAYN is a film student and may have the use of a soundstage?"

    no... what's unfair is the 35k a year I pay to go to the school with the soundstage...

    ::hugs student lones::

    anyway I would still like to know how long this movie will end up being (or just an appx. time- 15 mins? 45 mins? 2 hours?)

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