Buffy The Vampire Slayer/Angel Into the Hellmouths Of The World

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Films and Television' started by PrincessKenobi, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. Sniper_Wolf Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 4
    Getting ready to start Angel season four. Personally I found Angel three/Buffy six to be the best so far for their respective shows.

  2. Sniper_Wolf Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 4
    Finished Angel four and halfway done with Buffy seven. I have to agree with many reviewers that season four had some of the best and worst of the show. I was in love with the season until after Faith left. Then I was reminded that gods do not work as villains in the Buffyverse. Jasmine graded on my nerves, and Connor was unbearable post-Faith (although father and son bastardizing Mandy was hilarious). Plus evil Cordy got annoying after a while.

    On a positive note I have to say Amy Acker was the standout of the season. Fred's plot during the Jasmine affair was the only thing I really enjoyed besides the mentioned singing. Also enjoyed how the final episode was a coda similar to the end of Buffy four instead of another big battle. Hopefully evil Mal and evil Jayne are better than Jasmine.
  3. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Nathan Fillion was very good as Caleb. He had some good lines and a moment when you really want to hate him. While Adam Baldwin was good as Hamilton, especially in the final episode.
  4. Sniper_Wolf Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 4
    DS, I've heard there was a lot of behind the scenes hubbup during Angel four. Know anything about it?
  5. Healer_Leona Scattegories Host. Manager Emeritus

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2000
    star 9
    Caleb just gave me the creeps, everything about him just made my skin crawl. Nathan was great. :D :D
  6. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    I didn't really start watching both shows until season five of Angel. So I didn't read all of the controversies from before. But here is what I've gathered. Season three ended with David Greenwalt leaving as head writer to work on his own series, "Miracles". His replacement only lasted three months before Tim Minear took over. The plot was to revolve around Cordelia being revealed as the Big Bad for the season. However, not long after production began on the fourth season, Charisma became pregnant with her first child. This would have to be written into the show, with Jasmine being introduced in order to give Charisma time to give birth and be on maternity leave. Fans were also becoming bothered by the Angel/Cordelia relationship from season three, thus it was undone in season four. Also during the season, there was rumors of creative differences regarding the direction of Cordelia, which made things difficult. It's said that it was felt that Cordelia had run her course and they were running out of ideas for her, after seven years. At the end of the season, Cordelia was to awaken in time to kill Jasmine in "Peace Out", rather than Connor as it wound up being. Ratings fell and the show was boardline for cancelation. When it was brought back, changes were to be made. It seems that Charisma and Vincent Kartheiser were dropped with very little warning. It's said that Charisma didn't find out until prior to the start of production of season five. This lead to some bad feelings between Charisma and Whedon for a while. But after she was asked back to film "You're Welcome", issues were put aside.

    That's all I really know.
  7. Healer_Leona Scattegories Host. Manager Emeritus

    Game Host
    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2000
    star 9
    Interesting. I hadn't kept up with any of the behind the scenes and thought it was the baby that made Charisma pull out.

    I for one like the Angel/Cordelia romance, though we knew Angel couldn't act on it no matter what. I may be the only one who didn't care for Angel/Buffy. I thought he a whiny bore and like Angelus more.

  8. Shadow_of_Durron Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 2, 2003
    star 6
    Okay, finally done with my marathoning, and I thought I'd make make a little post here.

    Wasn't really that big of a fan of the shows. I'd seen a couple episodes here and there, some I liked, others seemed kinds meh at the time. Not sure why, but I never really understood what the big deal was. And Angel I really didn't give a chance to. I think I saw one episode and decided I didn't like it.

    But then, just recently, thanks to the Movie/TV character draft over in the Census forum, I ended up watching some episodes to do some "research" on certain characters. And I don't know what happened, but I found myself really getting into it. So yeah, I raided my sister's DVD collection and started watching all the seasons marathon style. Love the shows now. Just awesome stuff. Hell, I think I like Angel better out of the two now that I've seen it all.

    Tough to pick out my favorite episodes. Too many good ones. Though I don't think the more "popular" choices, like Hush, Once More and The Body would be at the very, very top with me, but they're all close. I'd have to think on it a bit more to narrow down my absolute faves. But just having watched the last episode of Angel, that one stands out at the moment. Great ending, but it just sucks knowing that there's no more.

    Worst episode is easy, though. The one with the mexican wrestlers in season 5 of Angel. That one was just... yeah, there have been some episodes throughout all the seasons of both shows that weren't exactly spectacular, but that's the one and only episode where I sat back at the end and thought, "Wow. That was really, really bad."

    Fave characters would probably be Willow, Wes, Spike (of course), Angel, Illyria and Lorne (green boy's last scene is just too hardcore. ;) ).

    Fave villains: The Mayor tops the list easily. Angelus is way up there as well, as are Drusilla and Lindsey. Prolly Dark Willow as well.

    Tough to pick best seasons also. For Buffy, seasons 2 and 3 stand out, but 6 seems kinda underrated to me. But with Angel, season 4 doesn't really have any competition. Not that the others sucks, but 4 was just great beginning to end.

    That's all the commenting I have for now.
  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Well, come on over to my Buffy/Angel book and comic thread discussion. I've got previews of the upcoming Buffy comic by Joss Whedon, as well as lists of the books and comics. Not all of the comics, but a few good ones.
  10. PrincessKenobi E7 Manager of DOOM

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2000
    star 6
    Make me jealous why don't you? ;)

    Since the series ended, I've really been able to kind of sit back and think of my fave episode. And for me right now Amends is topping the list. There's just something about this episode that stands out to me at the moment.
  11. PressRedForFreakMode Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2006
    star 3
    The Angel episode- Welcome Home, is one that sticks in my head moreso than any other. It really took me by suprise. Very upsetting at the end! :(
  12. Teegirloo Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    star 6
    Buffy used to be my favorite show. I have the first two seasons on DVD. I need to get the rest. I used to watch Angel until they started to give powers to Charisma Carpentar. I thought they went to far and i couldnt get into it after that. I may try and watch reruns to see if i can come to a resolution.:p
  13. ComicDiva Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 27, 2004
    star 4
    Yeah, I actually like season 6 too. Well, I like the idea of season 6. I like that it was dark all over and like 5 it felt like there was a theme running throught the season, that affected everybody. Everything that could go wrong, went wrong in that season. I guess I'm just attracted to chaos. :)

    Oh, and to this day I can't rewatch the "rape scene".
  14. PressRedForFreakMode Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2006
    star 3
    TeeGirl!! Hey!

    Oh i hate Cordelia.. Apart from in that episode where she kicks *** :)

    Yeah, chaos is always good. Keeps up a good storyline. :D
  15. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Neither can James Marsters. He either has to change the channel, shut the television off or smash his television. Not his favorite moment in the history of the show.

    Oh, head over to my Buffy thread in the books forum. Updates on the Buffy comics.
  16. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    I've been trying to get my wife to watch Angel, and they've been on pretty heavy rotation on TNT. They've gone back to the first season, and well...they're kinda lame.

    Seemed like in the 1st season there were several rather badly-written episodes. For example, there was one this morning where Buffy shows up, and Angel gets made into a normal human. Rather than enjoy some modicum of a life with Buffy, he asks the PTB to undo the last 24 hours. Except that not only did everything they accomplished together remain accomplished :oops: but he's the only one who remembers what actually happened. Likewise, there was an episode where he gets a magic ring that allows him to overcome his greatest weakness (the sun) but for some reason, he decides not to keep it.

    It's like they keep hitting the "re-set button" at the end of each episode for contrived reasons, and then rub salt in the wound so that Angel can have "oh noes, teh angst!1!!1!"

    Don't get me wrong, I loved the series (except for the 4th season, it was all over the place). It's just that the 1st season had some not-so-stellar moments.
  17. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    With the Gem of Amora, Angel destroyed the ring because it was a lie. That's not his redemption as he told Doyle. It's a cheat. Spike wanted it because he could then kill Angel and Buffy, as well as any future Slayer he came in contact with. But for Angel, while he could go out in the sun and become virtually immortal, it wasn't right. He did not want to have such a gross advantage over the supernatural. Not to mention that he will always be a target for Spike and other vampires who want the ring. Besides, you could not worry about Angel if he cannot die. The potential for his death is important, especially with Joss Whedon killing characters left and right.

    As to being with Buffy, he knew that he could not live the life of Xander while Buffy still fought the good fight. That's why he had the Oracles tell the Powers to undo this. He needed to be a vampire with a soul in order to fight the darkness. It is the true mettle of being a hero that he gives up the one thing that he wants most, because to him it was the right thing to do. Without his vampire abilities, he's no different than Xander Harris. His fighting skill and healing abilities come from his being a vampire. Without them, he's useless. This is why once he learned of the Sanshu, it became his goal in life to fulfill his destiny. He had to earn his redemption, not have it handed to him on a silver platter. Besides, "I Will Always Remember You" allowed the writers of both shows to move Buffy and Angel apart. Buffy starts dating Riley Finn right after that episode and Angel doesn't have to worry about losing his soul to her. Not to mention that Angel has to remain brooding, since it's the safest way to keep him as Angel and not Angelus.

    If you have a library card and your library carries them, I suggest picking up the Angel DVD sets. The overviews explain the reasoning behind each piviotal story.
  18. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    I found those episodes as ratcheting up the "Angst-O-Meter" unnecessarily. And if I have to watch the DVD commentaries to understand the reasoning......o_O
  19. AnakinGirl05 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 3
    I dunno what my favorite episode of Angel or Buffy would be, I love so many of them. I agree that while some of the more popular episodes are great (the Body, Hush, etc.) they are far from the best. I do know that I absolutely despised the entire story line on Buffy with her creepy weird military-ish boyfriend...I hated that so much I can't even remember what they were called and I was beyond thrilled when they got rid of that nonsense. I know there are some out there that may have liked that, not me intention to offend of course....

    Some of my faves dealt with Buffy/Angel on a personal level and I really loved any mention of Buffy/Angel/Spike. I like the alpha male type of battle that goes on between those two. I like them both for different reasons, but in the end my heart lies with Angel!

    As for Angel, I watched the first two seasons faithfully and then caught the others sporadicly. Any eps. in particular any of you would recommend to get me all caught up?
  20. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    As I said, with Buffy he cannot be with her. This was their way of showing a potential happy ending, while maintaining continuity. And the ring, as noted, is a cheat as Angel said.
  21. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    As you may know, Dark Horse's Buffy comic returned as season eight by Joss Whedon and a host of writers from the show and the comic industry. Now, IDW and Joss Whedon will do likewise with Angel season six.
  22. Sniper_Wolf Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 4
    Badass. I can't wait to pick up Buffy #1.
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The second printing will be out on the 28th, followed by issue two a week or so later.
  24. PrincessKenobi E7 Manager of DOOM

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2000
    star 6
    *glee* Can't wait for Issue 2.

    ~PK~
  25. Amidala Starkiller Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 1999
    star 6
    Ugh I quit buying the IDW Angel comics because they were pricey now I have start again.
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