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FF:VIC Bush's intentions now clear: Or why PoT doesn't want to be in this country anymore.

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by Protege-of-Thrawn, Mar 18, 2003.

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  1. HawkNC

    HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Oct 23, 2001
    Uh-huh, how about you quit preaching and actually do something

    PoT has stated before that he does just that, and I have seen evidence of this for myself.

    Is the "West" (in itself an outdated Cold War notion, not entirely applicable to today's circumstances) inferior to other cultures/civilisations? In some respects, yes, and in others, no. It certainly has the military muscle and political strength to maintain its control, nobody claims otherwise.

    In terms of morals, however, how can one country be morally superior over another? A nation's morals is the sum of the morals of its citizens. To assume that one nation is more powerful than another because it has more military might is fallacious reasoning, at best. If the US was a totalitarian state that crushed anyone who opposed it (don't say a word, PoT), would you still consider it to be better than a democracy that used military strength only to defend itself? The most powerful nation is not always the superior one.
  2. Protege-of-Thrawn

    Protege-of-Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Mar 14, 2001
    You have two main postulants there, both of which are wrong:

    1)Dreamer's never achieve anything.

    The problem with this assertion is it only measures "something" or progress in terms of physical and temporal change. It ignores the neccessary mindset for change, the intellectual revolution, the perception war that is fought slowly, silently, without violence...but as fiercely as all the manhood substitution "Smart Bombs" America can through.
    I suppose in your mind John Lennon never achieved anything?
    I suppose Ghandi did nothing for the world?
    Hell, Buddha and Muhhamad both spent decades sitting doing very little. They then managed to spawn the two most stable, uniformly respected and spiritual religions in the world.

    Just because we don't go and blow things up and try and compensate for our flaccid manhood with some sort of raging smite upon our "enemies" doesn't mean we are not acting, and not acheiving much. As I've said before, I may die whilst standing in the way of your "but I'll kill all the pacifists" logic, but I'd prefer to die with a clear conscience and an empowered existence then live pathetically and wretchedly like the poor lost souls of the West.

    Postulant 2) The West is superior because they can make big things that go boom and factories that make mucho smoke. Hahaha.

    I put to you a thought, dear Yun.
    There are always two ways to get your way with another. You can discuss your will, and try and come to terms with a way to please both parties, to "co-exist" peaceably. This exists in diplomacy, between nations, between individuals. It is how a date turns to a relationship. It's the line where a girlfriend becomes a soulmate. It's the point where we stop living life and begin loving life. This is the way of the dreamers, the idealists, the "leftist scum" you laugh at for their idealism.

    But what is the alternative? The alternative is the way of the Right, of the West. To force your Will upon the other. To rape the innocence out of the other. To burn the other where it is helpless, the bite the hand that feeds you.

    Yes, those "inferior nations" probably could rape and pillage the earth. I'm sure Europe is dissapointed they didn't buy Alaska off of the Russians: think of all that Oil to drill in the pristine Environment!
    I'm sure Fiji and the pacific islands are laughing and enjoying themselves as they watch the tide slowly consume their islands as the globe warms, I'm sure they are ecstatic about the death of much of the marine eco-systems at the hands of Western "big business" and "things that go Boom".

    But when it comes down to it, I'd rather not get my way, and reach a compromise where all parties are happy. Especially when the alternative is to bully, oppress, and rape the enemy of all sense, civility, dignity...or life.

  3. Yun-Yuuzhan

    Yun-Yuuzhan Jedi Master star 4

    May 9, 2001
    I'm going to just stop arguing because neither one of us can win. I argue from a stance of logic and reason, completely void of emotion. I don't care about feelings, it's not my business. I believe in realpolitiks, results over method, more than I do avoiding putting a shopping mall and tire factory in every city.
    My argument is that your views demand that the "West's" ways change and that they not be imposed on other countries. Much of Americana has spread across the world because people see it, experience, and like it. They choose to live similarly. You want people to think and act a certain way in line with your morals and spiritual views, that's hardly any better than America kicking dictators out of countries and replacing them (or at least doing their best to) with democracies.

    You want people to follow your views and come to your side, start a religion. Just don't go into politics.

    Edit: Forgot; have a nice ANZAC Day!
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