Saga "But Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future..."

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Darth_Articulate, Nov 7, 2013.

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  1. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    I'm sure that in such a vast forum, this has already been discussed, and if anyone knows where please link.

    This line always confused me and seems to be the exact opposite of Yoda's description of Obi-Wan in ESB: "This one. A long time have I watched. All his life as he looked away to the future. To the horizon. Never his mind on Where. He. Was. hmm? What he was doing. hmm." But the TPM line makes it sound as though Yoda saw Obi-Wan as too present-focused and not considering the future enough.

    The only thing I can think of is that Obi-Wan was using some kind of group lecture of Yoda's as an excuse for his lack of concentration in the moment. Maybe Yoda used to give lectures to younglings about considering the future and wasn't personally directed to just Obi-Wan.

    What is your take on this?
  2. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    Isn't Yoda describing Luke in that scene? I asked here how Yoda watched Luke through the force once, and it seemed most people thought it was definitely about Luke.
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  3. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    So then Yoda is talking to Obi-Wan about Luke? It seems like he's talking to Luke, though, because he begins and ends his speech addressing Luke directly "what know you ready" and "you are reckless"
  4. Count Yubnub Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 1, 2012
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    Yoda becomes ghost-Qui-Gon's apprentice at the end of ROTS. So then he becomes focused on the Living Force as well.

    Another interpretation would be that with "but not at the expense of the moment" Qui-Gon was voicing Yoda's opinion as well. Luke, in that interpretation, would have been too focussed on the future at the expense of the moment.
    Last edited by Count Yubnub, Nov 7, 2013
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  5. Darth_Articulate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
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    Maybe Yoda's talking about himself. Mmmmm?
  6. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
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    This sounds like Qui-Gon's opinion. And I suspect that while serving as the former's apprentice during those 22 yearsYoda learned to adhere to the former's view on the Force during those 22 years of being Qui-Gon's apprentice and exile, before he met Luke.
    Last edited by DRush76, Nov 8, 2013
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  7. Kenneth Morgan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 1999
    star 3
    Luke wasn't being mindful of the future, really. He was daydreaming and thinking about what he'd do once he gotten away from Tatooine and went to the Academy. So, Yoda was scolding him for not following Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon's interpretation.
  8. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Right. Yoda says that Luke never pays attention to the world around, as he is focused on excitement and adventure, when he would leave home. He is telling this to both Luke and Obi-wan, the latter is evident when he keeps looking up at him. The saying is be mindful of what may happen in the future, but never do so when it will interfere with the world around you. Do not day dream, do not lose yourself to the possibilities of the future.
  9. Snivvian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2012
    This distinction between focusing on the present instead of daydreams seems also quite relevant to the power to remain present as a force ghost instead of becoming one with the Force after death, doesn't it?
  10. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    That conversation is about Luke, Obi wan sees look as the only hope to get Palatine & Anakin. Yoda doesn't trust Luke, being he is Anakins son. Yoda was sad in Ep3, but it seems that sadness has turned to resentment by Ep5. I think Yoda even says Luke is angry like his Father. Obi Wan was wreckless in wanting to train Anakin to honor Qui Gon and trys to remind Yoda of this. Its easy to see why Yoda doesn't trust Luke.
  11. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Yoda is reluctant to train Luke because of how old he is. It is difficult for one to accept and entirely knew philosophy and doctrine at 20 years old. There is nothing hinting that Yoda doesn't trust him because he is related to Anakin. As the saga shows us Obi-Wan and Yoda in fact saw him and Leia as the last hopes for the Jedi.
  12. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    It isn't so much that Luke is old, but that he wasn't as mature as Leia was. By sixteen years of age, Leia was moving into politics and beginning to take part in the Alliance. By that same time period, Luke was wanting to leave Tatooine and go off to become a pilot. He was wanting to waste time with his friends, rather than work on his chores, as we see when Luke is introduced in the film version of ANH. He complained about not getting to leave, because two of his friends had and one said that he'll be stuck there until he's old and gray. He laments to Beru about going nowhere fast when Owen tells him that he can apply next season, and then goes off to stare at the sunset.

    That's what ticks Yoda off.
  13. Minez01 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2005
    star 1
    Yeah Yoda was talking about Luke, and his commentary is still pretty consistent IMO. I think saying "Be mindful of the future" to a trained Jedi (Obi Wan in Ep 1) is different to saying the stuff about a completely untrained Luke in ESB.
  14. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Maybe not for you, but I see many reasons why Yoda is uncomfortable. Plus Yoda was right, Luke still ran off to Bespin & is hard headed like his dad.
  15. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    A question I now have to wonder is would Yoda sacrifice himself for Luke the way Obi wan did? Yoda doesn't seem very found of Luke & only seems to deal with Luke for Obi wans request.
  16. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    Regardless of what you see, there is nothing portrayed that Yoda doesn't trust him because of his relation to Anakin. As said by Obi-Wan, it seems that being hardheaded is a common trait among young Jedi. Yoda says the same thing in AOTC. With Luke starting his training that late in his life it can only be expected. Yoda is reluctant to train him because he is a grumpy old man who failed in his one duty: to protect the Jedi Order.
  17. CommanderDrenn Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 2013
    star 4
    In my opinion, he would, in an instant. He may be stern with Luke, but that doesn't mean he doesn't like him. Luke is the galaxy's hope for freedom; Yoda is the teacher.
  18. Snivvian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2012
    The Emperor foresees Luke turning to the Dark Side.

    Also interesting to remember in context of this discussion that obsessing about visions of the future was exactly what led to Anakin's fall.
  19. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    That's why TESB takes on a whole new meaning once AOTC and ROTS came and went. More so with AOTC, because Anakin left for Tatooine based on visions of his mother suffering, then years later as Vader, he does that to Han in order to get him to come there.
  20. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    Yeah and doing this kind of re-enforces the fact that he has sold his soul. He is so cold he is using something that worked on him in ROTS (and ruined his life) on his own son. He even wants to put Luke in carbonite, showing how much of a callous bastard he really is.
  21. Mystery Roach Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 10, 2004
    star 4
    I tend to think that Yoda was much more of a big picture thinker (Unifying Force) until the downfall of the Jedi and the Republic forced him to confront the fact that he probably could have prevented these things from happening if he wasn't so focused on trying to peer into a clouded future for answers, and instead had paid more attention to his immediate surroundings (e.g. Palpatine and Anakin). He knew looking ahead was dangerous as he told Anakin, but he was blinded by his own arrogance and didn't see what was right in front of his face. While training with Qui-Gon in his isolation on Dagobah, I think he came to realize this and thus became a lot more attuned to the Living Force. So I think his criticism of Luke was also a self-criticism and a reflection of what he had learned the hard way.
  22. Snivvian Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2012
    That's true, but Obi-Wan remained apologetic because Yoda didn't want Anakin trained in the first place. I wonder if Qui-Gon ever apologized for that? It's like Yoda still had that one point to be proud of... making Luke's position and their eventual triumph especially ironic.
  23. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3

    This is part of the reason why the mechanics of his turn in ROTS, and the cold, calculating Vader we see operating twenty some years later just doesn't add up for me. Think about it.

    I mean it should have become obvious as he stood in the suit for the first time, having been told he was responsible for Padmé's death (through his anger - which Palpatine had told him to embrace, was his strength) that he had been duped by Palpatine. Just a little thought would get him to the point where he could join the dots and realise...hey, this is the guy who was involved in trying to get Padmé killed on...numerous occasions. I brought 'peace' to this new Empire where...the war only existed because this guy set it up - just exactly as Padmé had suggested might be the case...

    So, when he's considering using the torture of Han to draw Luke out....it didn't cross his mind that maybe his mother's torture and murder were....not simply down to that trie of Tuskems that he killed?

    I just cannot connect a guy who is essentially duped into his actions in ROTS with this ruthless Imperial enforcer of the OT. I don't get a sense that the ROTS Anakin had actually bought into the dark side... so I really can't 'buy' the connection. I don't see how anyone could be that....gormless.
  24. HevyDevy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2011
    star 3
    While you make good points, I disagree with the apparent EU fact that the Sith were involved in Shmi's death. There is no way Anakin can blame Sidious for that, in fact Jedi restrictions on him were part of the reason he didn't get to her in time. But you are right about Padme, Palpatine was indirectly responsible for attempts on her life and I think Anakin is so desperate to save her he chooses to ignore this. Keep in mind after the Sidious reveal he doesn't really like Palpatine anymore and plans to eventually overthrow him similarly to Vader in the OT.
    Lastly, after Anakin sells his soul and fuels his detatchment from his past identity by murdering those who oppose him, I think he eventually reaches a point by the end of Rots where he just doesn't care anymore. I see this slide ending in total enslavement to the dark side on hearing of Padme's death matches what we see in the OT. By the time he is using Luke's attachment to trap him he is totally dead inside.
    Last edited by HevyDevy, Nov 12, 2013
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  25. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    The Tuskens did what they had always done, which was nothing new. Anakin was very familiar with the Tusken Raiders and the brutality of their actions. So kidnapping his mother to tortrure her to death was nothing new. The difference being that this time, the Tuskens wound up paying for it. Palpatine had no part in that.

    Anakin's turn had to do with his desire for a deeper knowledge of the Force. That much is apparent when he talks about being held back in AOTC and in ROTS, when he thinks that the Jedi aren't being honest with him about what can be done with the Force. He lets himself believe that Palpatine could show him the way, because he has no where else left to turn. But in killing the Jedi in the Temple and the Confederacy leadership on Mustafar, Anakin starts changing from good to evil. He starts believing in the things that his predecessors believed in. Palpatine never really lied to Anakin.
  26. only one kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2012
    star 3
    Well...we don't know that. It seems rather.... convenient for Palpatine's purposes that Schmi was held and tortured. I mean to say that, there are no other prisoners being held - there are plenty killed and maimed (including Cliegg) - but not one other prisoner. Don't you find that a bit strange?


    I don't buy that. Because he briefly mentions to Palpatine that there are things about the Force that the Jedi are holding from him does not equate to that being the reason he turned. One must take into account that this is to Palpatine, who has already told Anakin of the power he desires that the Sith Lord Plageious knew of. His earlier line - about being held back - was simply , I believe, meant to highlight his impatience rather than any desire to know all the secrets of the Force.

    Lucas, though, tells us that the reason Anakin turned was to save Padmé. He agreed to undertaking his dark deeds in order to learn the power to save Padmé, not for the sake of the knowledge of the power itself - and that much is clear within the dialogue of his turn. So, to say that the reason he turned was...something other than that is a misdirection because the course that Lucas chose was to go with the Faustian pact (pledge himself to the 'devil' Palpatine for the power to save his wife) as the reason for his turn. I just don't see the point in shimmying around that. That is the storyline that Lucas chose to go with.
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