Lit CAD BANE IS DUROS (BUT ACKBAR IS WATCHING) - The Lit Forum Social Thread, v2.0

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Master_Keralys, Jan 1, 2009.

  1. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    @AdmiralNick22, it might be worth noting that I was never really into "kids stuff" (of course, many would likely consider some stuff I'm into now as "kids stuff", Star Wars being exhibit A, but most of that would fall squarely in the "guilty and not at all advertised pleasure" category), so the divide is much less clear for me. The one exception was Power Rangers, and I'm not sure what I was thinking on that (plus it ended pretty quickly). Toys? Always had more fun breaking them than playing with them. Lego's? Same thing. My kid thing was, predictably if you know me, music, and that's not really a hobby that one loses interest in. And reading, I suppose, but just Harry Potter, which I now really dislike as a result, so I suppose I'm as guilty as anyone.

    I do have one sharp memory, however, of being at my grandmother's house and watching DragonBall Z. Naturally, she was just confused by it, and promised me that one day I would hate this show just like she did. I promised her that I wouldn't. I can be very stubborn :p
    Last edited by instantdeath, Nov 29, 2013
  2. Lugija Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2009
    star 4
    I must say, the way my enemies convert to Catholicism just when I'm about to get all their lands is very cowardly and annoying. Couldn't they wait until I have won the war?
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  3. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Finished the first season of Mad Men. Took a few episodes for it to really click, but now I'm hooked. Draper's "purple heart" has to be one of the best scenes in television history.

    Also, I have no idea what general reaction to Pete Campbell is, but I imagine it's love to hate. Jesus I hope someone hits that guy.

    Have to give the obligatory "I love the music" comment as well. Absolutely perfect song to end the season on (even though I don't think that Dylan album was technically released when the first season took place, but it's good enough to let that slide. Plus maybe the single was out or something.)
    Last edited by instantdeath, Nov 30, 2013
  4. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    I love to hate certain characters. Pete Campbell is not among them. I just plain hate him.

    Well, they were very generously allowing for you to use the invasion CB on them. That is, unless they're smaller than you. Then they're just jerks. You should castrate them to teach them a lesson.
  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Castration? Damn, you people play some violent games.

    *goes back to stabbing zombies with an iron sword in Minecraft*
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  6. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

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    Mad Men very, very rarely uses not-precisely-period music for specific effect. Like, about twice. Matthew Weiner, the showrunner, specifically decided to go with that song even though it wasn't released at that time because the song was just too good.

    As for Pete, I love Pete. The thing about Mad Men is that the characters are so deep. Almost none of them are really good people, but they're all understandable and sympathetic. Pete is a selfish, obnoxious jerk, but he's also a sort of tragic figure. He wants so desperately to be liked that he makes it impossible to like him. He wants to get ahead and be the guy, and he's trying as hard as he can and he just can't understand why it's not working. He thinks the world should be his but it isn't. He thinks his life should be great and it sucks. There's a lot in Pete that's relatable. He's awful and obnoxious and I loved shouting "Goddammit, Pete!" at the TV every time he screwed up in my first watch-through, but he's also immensely understandable and incredibly well-written, -acted, and -developed.

    In a lot of ways, I think, Pete is the representative of modern man on the show. The other characters from that era are reserved. They don't reveal their emotions in public. They work hard and expect everybody else to work hard too. Pete, though, is open -- too open. Note the way his emotions and true feelings tend to escape. He can't keep from revealing himself with lines like "I'm giving up my life to be with you, aren't I?" He's needy and emotional and entitled and self-involved, and his neuroses, his nexus of entitlement and exasperation at a world not working like he was promised, his liberal instincts and relatively forward-looking outlook conflicting with his selfishness and poor people skills, point much more directly toward the concerns and neuroses of today than Don's or Roger's.
  7. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    That encapsulates precisely why I hate Pete. He's the future -- he's our contemporary "me me me" society. He's concerned with his own advancement over everything else: this means he'd sooner see the company not prosper than see someone else get credit. Being a go-getter and wanting to achieve is one thing, but at the expense of everyone else is another.

    I prefer Roger and Cooper. :p

    (I think part of the reason I simply hate him instead of love to hate him is precisely because of how his vices, all too common these days, grate at me. The other characters that I hate have similar problems.)
  8. patchworkz7 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2004
    star 4

    I've already blown through the first season of PERSON OF INTEREST and thanks to everyone for the recommendation; it's fantastic. I can't believe I missed three seasons of this show! But at least now I have more good things to look forward to!
  9. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

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    There's more to Pete than just ambition. Pete's ambition is a mirror to Don's ambition -- they're both men who know that they desperately want something, and they're chasing what they're told to chase, and they find it isn't satisfying. Don is much more self-aware about this, which makes them tragic figures in very different ways. But Pete isn't power-mad or some cutthroat climber; he's desperate for fulfillment and affirmation. He wants to be happy and he wants to be loved. He lashes out sometimes because he's not getting that, but I'm not seeing what you're saying.
  10. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    *Minor spoilers for the first season of Mad Men*

    On Pete, I absolutely agree he's a wonderful character. My personal definition of a "love to hate" character is someone I love to watch, yet simultaneously want horrible, horrible things to happen to him. Pete's a guy I can feel sympathy for (even when he deserves precisely none), even while I take pleasure in watching his life spiral out of control. I wouldn't call him my favorite character, just because it's gotten to the point where his face makes me angry, but he's undoubtedly the most entertaining. And like most good TV, I find my opinion of him can change episode to episode: I felt Don was being petty when he attempted to fire him for pitching his own ideas, yet in the attempted blackmail I just wanted someone to bring Pete back down to reality.

    I will say that, just going by the first season, Don comes out looking better just for being next to Pete. Obviously both of them are flawed in that they treat women, particularly their wives, terribly, but Pete's infidelity carries a certain maliciousness to it, only sharpened by them being newlyweds (or engaged? I can't remember off of the top of my head). If there's one thing that truly marks Pete as an utter *******, it's his treatment of Betty, which somehow manages to be hilarious in all its cruelty.

    I can certainly understand Jello's outright hatred for him; he does, after all, embody something that I despise as well, corporate selfishness and desire to "get ahead" even at the detriment to everyone else. It's only made more grating, I think, with just how earnest the guy is; he just knows that he's a great guy, and wants everyone around him to know it too. I think everyone knows a Pete Campbell, that guy who's convinced that he's God's gift to humanity and that His gift is not being used to its greatest capability.

    My impression is that Pete just wants to be recognized, but hasn't the slightest idea what for. If the purple heart scene is my favorite in the season, the scene with Pete berating his wife over getting him published in Boy's Life magazine, and not so subtly suggesting that she should have just slept with the publisher, isn't far behind. Just a perfect example of the guy's "go big or go home" attitude, as well as his idea that the rest of the world owes him.
    GrandAdmiralJello likes this.
  11. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    Mad Men's soundtrack is fantastic. I squealed like a little girl when they closed season three with a Roy Orbison song.
    Last edited by RC-1991, Dec 1, 2013
  12. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Let me take a guess: is it In Dreams?

    On that subject, In Dreams was used fabulously in Alan Wake.
  13. RC-1991 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 2, 2009
    star 4
    Nope, Shahdaroba. But Roy Orbison is never used un-fabulously.
  14. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Good. Now convince Jello to do the same.
  15. CaptainPeabody Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2008
    star 2
    Speaking of In Dreams, I watched David Lynch's Blue Velvet for the first time last night with my brother. What an odd film. I definitely enjoyed it, though.

    David Lynch isn't my favorite thing, but he's one of a very few directors who are actually dream-like in style. I appreciate that.
  16. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    Is this a bad time to mention that I'm barely even aware of Person of Interest being a thing?
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  17. Zeta1127 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    There isn't anything wrong with that, Coop, not when my family and I, who are fans of the show, completely missed the mid-season finale because we didn't think anything was on after Rudolph.
  18. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Ugh, so disappointing...
    [IMG]

    :p
    No, but seriously, if you get some time you should really give it a look. It really is a great show.
    Contessa likes this.
  19. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    So I just got back from Disneyland, having narrowly avoided becoming the Rebel spy on Star Tours (it was this person seated next to me). I don't think I could ever live it down if it happened to me, and my friend declared that if it did happen she would immediately post it on fb so that everyone knew. And given how I insist on riding Star Tours multiple times on every visit, it's probably just a matter of time... so far I've avoided that ultimate indignity. I keep forgetting to wear my Imperial hat to the park; I figure if I ever did, that'd be when I'd get caught as the spy. I figure I might circumvent the dishonor via lulz by wearing an Imperial hat coupled with one of those Groucho Marx face things to look like an "obvious" spy :p

    (edit: oh yeah, forgot to mention. New kinda EU mention I hadn't noticed before: one of the droids that babbles as you wait in line says that one of you looks orange, and asks if you are a Togruta.)

    LI: Y'know, the funny thing is I briefly considered just a few minutes ago starting that Lymond thing you're always on about.
    Last edited by GrandAdmiralJello, Dec 2, 2013
  20. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

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    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Instie: Pete's infidelity was the night before he was going to get married. So, acting out.

    As for knowing he's a great guy, I think the root of Pete's problems isn't that he has an inflated opinion of himself, but that he wants to have a great opinion of himself but the world isn't complying. He needs to feel fulfillment, he needs to feel acceptance and external affirmation of himself. He wants to be successful and be told how great he is not because he's over-full of himself, but because he's empty inside, hollow. He seeks affirmation out of a lack of self-confidence (contrast Don's utter self-confidence) rather than demanding the world validate his excessive self-confidence. Pete wants desperately to be a great guy, wants to think he's a great guy, but he's depressed and frustrated because he needs someone else to tell him he's a great guy, to let him know he has worth, and he never gets it. He's a pathetic figure rather than an arrogant one.

    Also: "Mr. Campbell, who cares?" Seriously, what scene. Bert Cooper is always domination.

    Also, since I can never, ever, ever get enough of dissecting Mad Men: let's move to include another character. Instie, what's your response to Betty this season?

    Jello and Coop: Watch Person of Interest. Seriously. The midseason finale last week was pretty much the most badass thing on TV. This is the show Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. wishes it could be half of, Coop.
    Mia Mesharad likes this.
  21. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    ugh, Agents of SHIELD. I stopped watching the show when I realized I watched it more out of obligation than a desire to actually watch it. So... what's the point?

    And I'd watch PoI, except I already caught up on Mad Men and started watching Castle. If I keep listening to your recs and ignoring other people's recs, then there might be talk that I play favorites. Can't have that!
  22. Havac Some Guy Who Moderates Lit

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    Sep 29, 2005
    star 7
    Ignore these nebulous "other people." Their recommendations are foolish and weak.
  23. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Then do it for me, Jello. Do it for me. [face_batting] :p
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  24. GrandAdmiralJello Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

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    y'know, when a female Mando bats her lashes at me, I keep thinking I oughta check that she doesn't also have her blaster rifle pointed at me as additional persuasion :p
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  25. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    A rifle, Jello? Really? I'd never!
    *click* Pay no attention to that. [face_batting]

    Now go watch PoI. :p
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