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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Calling all AOTC lovers.

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Chancellor Yoda, Mar 3, 2016.

  1. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Very insightful!
    I'm gonna try out a black and white watchthrough of the Saga and see what happens.
     
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  2. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    very interesting. Yes, the color pallette in AOTC speaks by itself. All these scense are in color of the anger, of the fire, of the desperation.
     
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  3. Note-Pad

    Note-Pad Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2015
    One of the best SW films in my opinion. Really fleshes out Coruscant, I love that. Speaking of, I hope Coruscant plays a role in future films.
     
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  4. Darth Basin

    Darth Basin Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2015
    I can't believe this is a thing!
     
  5. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    A note is a tone.
    A tone is a note.
    An attack is an attachment.
    An attachment sticks.
    A clone is a stick; clones, sticks.
     
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  6. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Grafting.
    Attaching the clones onto the Republic, and therefore the Sith imperative.

    Lucas' novelization of A New Hope,
    3rd paragraph of Prologue:

    "So it was with the Republic at it's height. Like the greatest of trees, able to withstand any external attack, the Republic rotted from within though the danger was not visible from the outside."
     
  7. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    Don't you also love the first line? The Republic at its height. All that tower and falling imagery in AOTC...
     
  8. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    The Galactic Republic is beautiful. The Empire took the amazing architecture and pristine Golden Age away from everyone :_|
     
  9. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Also...

    Trees. They form a huge part of the symbolic makeup of the series.

    Trees in the novelization, trees in every movie.

    Trees are what you want, trees are what we need.

    Trees.
     
  10. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Oh, for certain.

    Including, and I'd say especially, the Tree of Life depicted by ancient cultures, and so on.

    Tonyg even mentioned the other day the imagery of Palpatine whispering in Amidala's ear.

    It is within the trees our heroes first set foot on land, and there they follow the rabbit into George's Wonderland.
    Our lovers find themselves amongst the idyllic trees of the majestic lake country.
    Our Wookiee warriors witness the tragic events of Order 66 and spirit Yoda away to his destiny...

    Then ultimately we have Han stepping on the twig which leads them to the stick warriors who attach themselves to the Alliance, joining them in their decisive battle at the climax of the story.

    ("To join in battle" is where attack and attach share their etymological root).

    And don't get me started on the fact that it's the Ewoks who lift Leia up to the higher pathways of the forest where she hears Luke's revelation of their family bonds and his need to reach their Father within the entrapment of the other side of the Tree.
     
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  11. Thomo93

    Thomo93 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 27, 2015
    I love ATOC. I love all the Prequel films way more so than the Originals. The Prequel era gave you more interesting characters, planets, organisations, species and ships. I watch ATOC all the time. :)
     
  12. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    Well, indeed.

    Don't forget the "tree cave" on Dagobah, where Luke has a revelation about, well... life, death, and the universe.

    Don't forget the trees that are felled in the forests of Naboo when the TF, led by the Sith, begin their invasion.

    Don't forget the jungle base of Yavin, home of the rebel base, which is narrowly saved from destruction by Luke "switching off" his targeting computer.

    And don't overlook, even, the forest on Starkiller Base, a section of which is violently stripped away by the planet-killing laser, the trees which Han slices through in his daring penetration of the shields in the Millennium Falcon, or the forest as the site of the lightsaber battle between Rey and Kylo. Rey also comments on the green of Takodana and seeks refuge in the warm green forest when she refuses the call to adventure and then fatefully encounters Kylo for the first time in a clearing (treasure-chest vision which drove her there aside).

    And there is surely some significance -- a life-renewing spiritual beauty -- in the Redwood Forests of Northern California featuring so heavily in ROTJ, the concluding part of Lucas' six-part saga. This forest, close to Skywalker Ranch, means Lucas didn't have to venture too far in filming the final episode of the original trilogy, when Skywalker Ranch had only recently undergone development. The late insert of Luke burning Vader's body was even filmed on the grounds of the ranch.

    Never underestimate what Lucas got going here. I really think the conspicuous presence of trees says something about the poetic hankerings and aesthetic soul of the man. I find these words of Camille Paglia's, the beginning of her final sentence in her epic elegy to Lucas, "George Lucas's Force, or Why George Lucas is the Greatest Artist of Our Time", extremely resonant:

    http://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-George-Lucas-Is-the/134942

    "He is a man of machines yet a lover of nature"

    Symbiont circles 'n' all.

    We should care about technology and nature both.

    We need to adopt more the wit, the wisdom, and the creative intelligence of George Lucas, if we are to survive this century intact and spiritually whole, IMO.
     
  13. MarcJordan

    MarcJordan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2014
    One of the things in AOTC I noticed with Anakin (I don't think has been widely noticed), is the mention of "quiet as a tomb", after Obi Wan asks him if there was any activity at the apartment. Anakin's fear of loss explored in TPM first, is revealed here. Then of course the reality of it (death) of his mother, his worst fears realized and also the blood curling manner of the Tusken genocide. It culminates suprisingly in the determination of Anakin's desire to "I will even learn to stop people from dying", proves Anakin is more complex than most protagonists in Cinema.

    Cheers!

    MJ
     
  14. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005


    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/quiet-as-a-tomb.11794327/

    Have a read through, but to save you the effort, I've collated the best remarks:




    When Obi-Wan and Anakin are standing guard in Padme's apartment, Obi-Wan asks Anakin how things are going, and he responds with the very unusual, "Quiet as a tomb."

    Now this line struck me as a bit odd the first time I heard it and I think it's really the first indication in the story of just how dark Anakin's character really is and just how far he's come from the plucky kid with the wide-eyed innocence in THE PHANTOM MENACE.

    "Quiet as a tomb" is not exactly the most encouraging statement to make when you're guarding the target of an assasination attempt, and it speaks volumes about Anakin that he would associate peace and quiet with death.

    It's a great line, and a perfect example of how Lucas really does put a lot of thought into his writing despite accusations to the contrary.

    Durwood, May 27, 2003 at 12:01 AM #1





    Durwood, this line stuck in my mind, too.


    Notice that soon after Anakin says this line, he then confides briefly with Obi-Wan that he has been having dreams of his mother that disturb his sleep. At a subconscious level, images of death are bubbling up and into his everyday speech.

    The colors are changing, from the bright primary colors of youth in TPM, to the colors of AOTC that progressively becomes autumnal, especially after the brief meadow picnic. Some commentary on the LOTR:FOTR DVD applies here, too: the Old Republic and the Jedi, like the Elven kingdoms of the Second Age, are in autumn and decline.

    Falls_the_Shadow, May 27, 2003 at 7:42 AM #14





    To me, first of all, they are protecting Padme in case someone tries to kill her again. The subject and situation is about death. At the same time, protecting someone is not Anakin's idea of adventure. So when Obi Wan asks him any activity, Anakin replies fittingly. I mean at a tomb, you don't expect someone to do anything and a dead body isn't going to do anything either.

    Its Anakin way of saying that nothing could be more boring than what they are doing now. Just as exciting as waiting at a tomb.

    I think the words suit just fine especially for Anakin's personality. If you feel something is there that's also alright. My two cents.

    openmind, May 28, 2003 at 6:14 AM #34




    The "quiet as a tomb" line was pretty noticeable. If you combined it with the darker colors in Padme's room and the pretty sparse furnishings in the main room, it gives off that type of feeling.

    There's a big part about Anakin wanting to stop people from dying, there's death imagery later on, and even in this scene he talks about dreams of his mother (which is directly related to death). Also, Padme's been "dying a little each day" since Anakin has come back. It's fitting to refer to Anakin and Padme's first meeting place as a sort of tomb.

    Was this intentional? Who knows. The interpretation of Shakespeare sometimes searches for deeper meaning in lines but I'm not too sure that they were meant to be that way.

    More likely is that the theme was established, and by writing around that theme, certain lines with deeper meanings automatically get generated. Death is unquestionably an important theme here. And there is unquestionably a deeper meaning to be found in the lines, if you want to look for them.

    Ardens_Furore, Jun 2, 2003 at 9:34 PM #69
     
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  15. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    A special shout-out to the magnificent Durwood for those brilliant insights from all those years ago; and for all the work they seem to be doing, or have recently been doing, defending the PT in the TFA forum!
     
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  16. Mark Pierre

    Mark Pierre Jedi Knight star 1

    Registered:
    Nov 8, 2016
    AOTC is one gorgeous movie!
    So let me list some of the things big and small I love about it:

    Opening shot of Padme's ship approaching Coruscant.
    Buildings sticking up from clouds like mountain tops.
    Padme's pilot outfit and the hairstyle that goes with it.
    Padme's outfits in general. Her wardrobe in this movie is amazing.
    Coruscant at day.
    Palpatine's office design - all the Sithy red.
    Loyalist Committee and Corde's violet cloak.
    "He's a political idealist, not a murderer." "...was once a Jedi. He couldn't assassinate anyone. It's not in his character" - Jedi's cluelessness and lack of foresight.
    "The thought of losing you is... unbearable." [face_laugh][face_rofl]
    Anakin's nervous cloak adjusting and Obi-Wan attempts to put him at ease.
    Watery blue of Padme's apartment.
    Anakin and Padme's awkward greeting.
    Coruscant at night.
    Zam Wessel and everything about her.
    Anakin and Padme conspiring to use her as bait.
    Clever poisonous bugs hiding from R2-D2.
    And Anakin choping them in halves.
    Obi-Wan thoughtless jump out of the window. Just who's more reckless in this movie? Master or apprentice?
    Passengers' annoyance. "Jedi poo doo!"
    Anakin's speeder piloting and bantering with his mentor.
    Obi-Wan's hysterics about Anakin's crazy antics and Anakin's slightly evil laught at him.
    Anakin being tactically clever whith the shortcut and ignoring Obi-Wan's whining about it.
    The jump and the struggle with Zam.
    The chase through the crowd.
    The night club and everything about it, including podraces on one of the screens.
    Death sticks.
    It's not Star Was if there's not a lost hand. Or two.
    What's Obi-Wan's problem, btw?
    Jedi temple towers and Jedi Council floor.
    Turns out Anakin was right after all with his insistence on investigation.
    Palpatine manipulating everything and everyone.
    Yoda's dig at Obi-Wan's own arrogance.
    "Sorry, milady." and the little smirk on Anakin's face.
    Devotion of Padme's handmaidens.
    "Don't worry. We have R2 with us." Ain't that the truth!
    The difference between knowledge and wisdom.
    The pattern on Jocasta's robe.
    "If an item does not appear in our records, it does not exist." Jedi arrogance being one of the reasons of their fall.
    Droids shunning droids.
    Anakin and Padme's matching refugee clothes.
    Another mention of Anakin's dream. (btw, I wish they kept that deleted scene in TPM when he wakes up before podracing and says he dreamt of Padme leading an army to battle.)
    Anakin's biting his lip.
    "Lost a planet Master Obi-Wan has. How embarrassing". Yoda making fun of Obi-Wan.
    A Jedi youngling schooling a Jedi Master.
    Stunningly beautiful Naboo. Every single location.
    A pearly shine on the queen's headdress.
    Hyperspace ring for a Jedi starfighter.
    Republic symbol looking almost exactly like an Imperial one.
    Jedi starfigter looking like a small Imperial Star Destroyer.
    Kamino's stormy weather.
    Kaminoans' slender look. Those huge blinking eyes.
    Clinical, hospital-like whiteness of the cloning facility.
    Anakin using his "sand" line to touch Padme, who looks intoxicated.
    The chemistry between them before and during the kiss.
    Anakin's "What the hell?" expression after Padme breaks the kiss. And music complies too.
    The horror of cloning and creators' (and Jedi!) indifference to it.
    "An unalerted clone for himself." A bounty hunter's desire for family.
    The teasing during the picnic.
    Padme's smile.
    Flying whales.
    The interrogation. "Always a pleasure to meet a Jedi."
    Aggressive negotiations.
    Padme's neckless looking like a choking gloved hand. Nice foreshadowing.
    Anakin's hands behind his back in the morning... like Vader's.
    The fight in the rain and Boba's involement.
    Tatooine's taxi.
    Watto's little boxing gesture.
    Asteroid chase and seismic charges.
    Geonosis at night and Federation ships looking like buildings.
    C-3PO's excitement.
    How young Beru and Owen look.
    Beru's domesticity.
    Duel of the Fates.
    Jawas and the lighten up inside of their crawler.
    Geonosian hive structures.
    Count Dooku.
    Wat Tambor adjusting his voice modulator.
    Tatooine at night and Tusken camp.
    Reunion between mother and son.
    Dying in one's child's arms - something we will see again.
    Suffering led to anger and hatred. Anakin's face changing.
    A cute little transmitter on the starfighter.
    Anakin fixing things... like Luke on Tatooine... like Leia in the M.Falcon.
    HC's excellent acting when he confesses his sins.
    Padme's compassion.
    Shmi's funeral.
    All purpose button. Heh.
    Anakin's self-doubt and Padme making things easier for him.
    Obi-Wan's shackles.
    Dooku's fake cordiality and hidden agenda.
    "It maybe difficult to secure your release." [face_laugh]
    "I love democracy. I love the Republic." [face_rofl]
    R2-D2 and C-3PO antics in the factory and the Arena.
    Geonosians crawling from walls.
    The factory and conveyor belt. Love it! Sue me.
    R2 being both a jerk and a hero.
    Love confession before the execution.
    Bugs' language.
    Padme being on top of things.
    The trio dealing with their beasts like some kind of ancient gladiators.
    Anakin ability to calm the mind of the beast and control it. I'll never understand SW novels' insistence on the opposite.
    Nute Gunray's grudge - mean laughing and "Shoot her or something!"
    "Take your kid to a bloody execution" day in Fett family.
    Jedi revealing themselves in the Arena and bugs running away from them.
    Dooku's appreciation of Jango's skill with a blaster.
    Jango's lame ending - like father like son.
    Obi-Wan finally gaining an upper hand with his beastie.
    Jedi in their prime... being overwhelmed by droids.
    And then rescued by the clones.
    Gunners in balls.
    The battle of Geonosis.
    And the pure chaos of it.
    Bug-like droids on a bug planet.
    Poggle the Lesser fluttering his wings.
    Death Star designs.
    Round starship going down.
    Padme's "I'm lying and dying here... Okay, let's move!" I can totally relate to this!
    The lightsaber duel. The part with Anakin and Dooku in darkness is so beautifully shot.
    Clone army.
    Starships taking off while the Imperial March is playing.
    The wedding and the droids being witnesses.
    Anakin's mechanical hand and Padme's acceptance.
    The sun setting over Coruscant. The sun setting over the Republic. The sun setting over Naboo.
    The beginning of the end.
     
  17. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Who's been nosing through my notebook? [face_hypnotized]
     
  18. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    I liked Christopher Lee and the Battle Of Geonosis.
     
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  19. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    Christopher Lee and Geonosis battles are always a good combination. :D
     
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  20. Ancient Whills

    Ancient Whills Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 12, 2011
    The last meeting between mother and son was definitively one of the most heartbreaking scene of the saga for me. :(
     
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  21. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005

    I appreciate how "raw" it is -- after seeing and soaking in all the fancy imagery, zany action heroics, goofy aliens, and melodramatic bluster of one sort or another that precedes it.

    Makes it all the more tragic and shattering, in my view.

    "Intricately made clock" 'n' everything...

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/02/star-wars-george-lucas-story
     
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  22. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 16, 2016
    Althought I disagree with some of the statements of this article, there are some things that they nailed here. They said: 'the melancholy and ambitious Star Wars: Episode II—Attack of the Clones". Yes, indeed, AOTC is this: melancholic, ambitious, ambigous and in the same time, full of glimpses of love and happiness.

    And also something that I liked: "Audiences who had expected a more heroic protagonist—someone like the easy-to-root-for farm boy Luke Skywalker—may have been confused by this sullen kid, who is alternately boastful and whining. Lucas believes Christensen took an unfair hit from critics and fans merely for carrying out what was in the script. “Poor Hayden,” he says. “His performance is great. They just don’t like the character.”. Well, again, the reasons that I like the character are the reasons that made may people dislike him.
     
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  23. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Back to trees for a minute; I finally found this thread in the OT section,
    http://boards.theforce.net/threads/endor-environmentalism.50042308/

    And shared this passage from the RotJ novel, as Luke, Han & Leia implore the Ewoks to aid them in their struggle against the Empire:

    The debate wound down, leaving finally another quiet moment in the hut. Leia's respirations quieted, too, in resonance; and with an air of confident serenity, she made her appeal to the council.
    "Do it because of the trees," she said.
    That's all she said. Everyone expected more, but there was no more; only this short, oblique outburst.
    Wicket had been observing these proceedings with increasing concern, from the sidelines. On several occasions it was apparent he was restraining himself with great difficulty from entering the council's discourse—but now he jumped to his feet, paced the width of the hut several times, finally faced the Elders, and began his own impassioned speech.
    "Eep eep, meep eek squee…"
    Threepio translated for his friends: "Honorable Elders, we have this night received a perilous, wondrous gift. The gift of freedom. This golden god…"—here Threepio paused in his translation just long enough to savor the moment; then went on—"…This golden god, whose return to us has been prophesied since the First Tree, tells us now he will not be our Master, tells us we are free to choose as we will—that we must choose; as all living things must choose their own destiny. He has come, Honorable Elders, and he will go; no longer may we be slaves to his diving guidance. We are free.
    "Yet how must we comport ourselves? Is an Ewok's love of the wood any less because he can leave it? No—his love is more, because he can leave it, yet he stays. So is it with the voice of the Golden One: we can close our eyes; yet we listen.
    "His friends tell us of a Force, a great living spirit, of which we are all part, even as the leaves are things separate yet part of the tree. We know this spirit, Honorable Elders, though we call it not the Force. The friends of the Golden One tell us this Force is in great jeopardy, here and everywhere. When the fire reaches the forest, who is safe? Not even the Great Tree of which all things are part; nor its leaves, nor its roots, not its birds. All are in peril, forever and ever.
    "It is a brave thing to confront such a fire. Honorable Elders. Many will die, that the forest lives on.
    "But the Ewoks are brave."
    The little bear-creature fixed his gaze on the others in the hut. Not a word was spoken; nonetheless, the communication was intense. After a minute like this, he concluded his statement.
    "Honorable Elders, we must aid this noble party not less for the trees, but more for the sake of the leaves on the trees. These Rebels are like the Ewoks, who are like the leaves. Battered by the wind, eaten without thought by the tumult of locusts that inhabit the world—yet do we throw ourselves on smoldering fires, that another may know the warmth of light; yet do we make a soft bed of ourselves, that another may know rest; yet do we swirl in the wind that assails us, to send the fear of chaos into the hearts of our enemies; yet do we change color, even as the season calls upon us to change. So must we help our Leafbrothers, these Rebels—for so has come a season of change upon us."
     
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  24. GregMcP

    GregMcP Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2015
    Rewatching Clones last night... I love young Boba.
    I love that he's literally a New Zealand kid, and acts like it. He cheers his dad along like he's watching him catching a fish. It feels like the most genuine relationship in the Prequels. In a movie that leans heavily on very formal speech, he's quite a contrast.
     
  25. Subtext Mining

    Subtext Mining Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2016
    In the AotC novel Jango does spend time teaching Boba how to catch a fish.

    Also, in the Shakespearean adaptations, Boba is the only character to speak in prose, with the intent on contrasting him and giving him a more street tough edge.
    (OT only, I hope PT ones do get made).
     
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