ST Can Kylo Ren Be Redeemed?

I always thought the force was based on the Tao from Taoism. Perhaps coincidentally, during the Mortis trilogy on TCW, there was a yin yang-esque symbol that represented the light and dark sides of the force, and the yin yang comes from Taoism

 

"Jesus equivalent"

In theology, some agent must act as the redeemer and grant salvation. No such agent exists in Star Wars, as far as I'm aware of.

 

No. I want a villain, not someone who's gonna turn at the last min and have everyone "grudgingly"say, "ok guys, he realizes what he's done. No need to execute him.". Most people who want him "redeemed" are of that mind in the name of a ship.

 

As are people that don't want him redeemed.

Kylo can be redeemed and we'll still have Snoke as the villain.

 

I think that it cheapens Vader's redemption if his grandson is redeemed. So now every bad guy gets redeemed? Sure characters are complex. Vader was one such character. He could not bring himself to kill his son. However, Ren did kill his father.

I get the idea that life is about shades of grey and there is no black and white evil. Only Sith deal in absolutes.

Personally I think it would be much better for the story to have a descendant of Skywalker truly evil in a way that even Vader couldn't be. I think that is what they were going for when he killed his father.

I just plain disagree. I think it makes his death that much more tragic. Sometimes deaths are not noble. They don't serve a purpose. They are just tragic.

 

I would love to see this.

 

He's the offspring of Han and Leia - he has good in his blood. Kylo Ren will be Ben Solo again.

 

um... the force?

just like it allows for force ghosts?

 

Vader was anything but complex.

Which is exactly why his "redemption" is nonsense.

Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. Kill. World domination. Kill. Kill. Oh sh**, don't kill my son.

 

I sure hope not...Not with all the non-force-sensitives out there. What a shame that would be.

 

It doesn't cheapen Vader's redemption if we see live through his and have to deal with it. Then, we get to see what life might have been like for Anakin, post-Vader. We also get to see a side of Star Wars we've never seen. And it would be almost like Vader gave his life for his redemption which would start a chain of events that would allow Ben to live through his.

 

Man, you couldn't be more wrong about Vader. You sound like Darth Sidious on the 2nd Death Star.

Even in GL failures, you could see that Anakin was good in the prequels.

How about these original quotes:

-He was a good friend. Obi-Wan in ANH
-Your father... was seduced by the Dark Side of the Force. He ceased to be the Jedi Anakin Skywalker and "became" Darth Vader. When that happened, the good man who was your father was destroyed. So, what I told you was true... from a certain point of view. Obi-Wan in ROTJ
-There is still good in him. Luke in ROTJ

Oh, btw the Force confirmed he was Redeemed.

 

fair enough.

the force is more equivalent to qi anyway. but maybe the other people are simply agnostics.

 

It absolutely is very much like qi. Philosophically, the ideas behind the force are much like Taoism.

 

admittedly i have no idea how tao handle the redemption of those who go astray though.

 

None of that makes Vader complex. Vader was good, now he is bad. Vader is not conflicted. Vader is a monster.

Kylo is complex in a myriad of different ways. Which is why he's a far more interesting character than Vader.

 

Well, there's no dark side of the Tao. You're either with the Tao or you're not. But I think you redeem yourself by being with the Tao. Something like that.

 

Okay generally speaking I do agree with you, but it was that complete 180 degree with his son that made it such a big deal. Now do I think he should have been granted force ghost status? Hell no, he is implicit in committing genocide and slaughtered jedi including children. Maybe had he not died he would have still been a villain. Just a more complex one involving his relationship with his kids.

My only point is, if you are going to make Vader turn like that, then don't cheapen it by making his grandson a carbon copy. Try and go another direction.

 

haha i'm not sure that represents taoistic ideas very well

let me go and wiki it.

 

Well, it's been quite awhile since I studied it, and I was more concerned with inner peace than coming back from the dark side.

 

i'm thinking more along the lines of yin and yang.... darkness and light belonging together and making one whole.

 

Really? which ship is all but dependent on the state of kylo ren? stormpilots never even bring him up. poeRey shippers never bring him up. FinnxRey shippers never bring him up. Kylo's redemption or non redemption has no affect on any of those ships.

 

I think it's a given. I'm only expecting to see how it's executed.

 

I think time will tell, but I'm very pleased with Kylo Ren so far.

Vader, however was very complex. It's the nature of the Sith. During ESB, he made up his mind that he wanted to turn Luke to take out Sidious. In ROTJ, he changes his mind and does his bidding. Vader also showed shades of mercy, by not executing Leia in ANH and repeating this theme in Cloud City.

 

If they do it, then he needs to live. Non of this "well here's my one good dead, now I'm dead. Good luck cleaning up my mess" stuff like with Vader. No, he needs to be around to suffer the consequences of his actions and MAYBE atone that way. Clean up his OWN mess.