ST Can Kylo Ren be saved/salvaged/redeemed?

Kylo Ren is obviously similar to Jacen Solo from the EU. A character who was turned into Sith and made his claim to fame by killing of Mara Jade Skywalker.

After this, he was finished. In the eyes of many fans, he couldn't be redeemed. He couldn't get away free.

He had to pay for what he did (along with his other numerous crimes). He did not get redemption, but was instead executed in a gory fashion by his twin.

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Now there is Kylo. I don't know the full extent of his story or background. I don't know what he has done in the past. I know he has killed many people, including an entire village and an unarmed old man (a jedi? Force sensitive?)

Then he commits the ultimate crime. He kills Han Solo, the iconic character from the original trilogy.

In my eyes, whether it be brainwashing or wanting to save someone or something from a terrible fate. Nothing can overcome this stain. Kylo Ren cannot get away with his crimes. He can't have a happy ending. He is finished. I don't see any possible way they can make the audience forgive him for killing Han Solo.

With Jacen Solo and Anakin Skywalker we saw the good sides of them and were able to at least sympathize with them or remember their innocence before it was taken.

But with Kylo Ren, we are introduced to him via this killing.

Perhaps you may disagree, but I feel Kylo Ren is a dead man.

 

Vader was full villain for his first two films and only became conflicted in ROTJ, and that's the movie he's redeemed in. Sure, the prequels and the EU fleshed him out more later, but at the time, that didn't exist. So in that regard I'd say Kylo is actually ahead of Anakin, since he's been shown as conflicted from the start.

Personally though, I don't want him redeemed. Not just because he killed Han, but just because it's something different. His story shouldn't be a total copy of Vader's. Having him stay bad to the end -possibly even usurping Snoke as the main bad guy once he's powerful enough- would be far more interesting IMO.

 

Hmmm, so something new should come up in Episode 8 then - Supreme Leader Snoke gets overthrown in the cruelest way possible (maybe even murdered in cold blood), with Kylo Ren succeeding him as the new head of the First Order. And General Hux, whilst still bickering with Kylo, remains as the man in charge of the massive fleet that is sent to destroy the Resistance...

 

If he does get redeemed, I hope it's different from the way in which Vader was redeemed. Since they're reusing a lot of early concepts from the previous films, I looked back at the early Kasdan draft for RotJ, and Vader's redemption was slightly different: in that early draft, he grabs the Emperor and jumps into lava, killing himself along with the Emperor - there was no goodbye scene with Luke. However, Vader was still quite a jerk in that version, whereas in RotJ (the final film version) he's a lot more sympathetic. I could see them using this old variation for Kylo Ren to differentiate it from Vader, but I hope they come up with something new altogether.

 

See, I DO want him redeemed... kind of. You're correct, we don't know his full past yet which I hope will be fleshed out a bit more in the coming movies and/or novels, but it is established pretty well in TFA that Kylo is a very conflicted man. Yes he has done terrible things, but even through the worst of it (killing his own father), he still feels the light. Killing Han crushed him and did not make him stronger like he thought it would. So, while I don't want him to become fully and completely consumed with darkness, I don't think that's where his story is going anyway. He has both light and dark in him and if he could learn to balance that, that will be what could possibly "save" him. I really hope he doesn't die in the end. I don't think the bad guy has to be sacrificed in order to be redeemed/shown the right path.

 

I don't see why setting up Kylo as conflicted from the start if he's going to go completely dark.
Would it be a story that yes, you can be evil if you really, really, really want to, even though you aren't really evil? I mean, sure, it's different, but it's too grim for Star Wars.

Of course, having him come back apparently stronger and less conflicted would be really cool. But I actually think the tougher he seems, the easier he is to break. Conflicted Kylo is malleable enough to get going. Tough, "evil" Kylo will eventually break down. And that's interesting.

 

I can't believe that I'm actually saying this after what he did to Han, but I have hope for the redemption of Ben Solo. Maybe it was what I recall as Driver's wonderful performance, but there was something very sympathetic about Kylo in TFA that I can't deny. Something which, if I'm to be honest, I never felt a lick of about Vader until the scene with Luke on Endor.

"It is... too late for me, son."

Ooh, right in the feels. But before then? Nope. Not so much. But with Kylo, there was a certain pitiable essence right from the start.

Now, for all I know, Episode 8 and/or 9 may bring us a Kylo Ren who eventually is able to purge the light from his soul and be totally irredeemable. But I think that would be sad. See, I'd like to think that Han's sacrifice was not for nothing (well, for more than simply selling the threat of the new villain or inspiring Rey, anyway) and that it will have planted the seed of something which will bear later fruit in his son's heart.

And if he does come back, maybe we can see something a little different from ROTJ and have Ben Solo survive his return. Then -- unlike with Anakin Skywalker -- we could stand witness to a former villain working to earn his reprieve through more than just one single honorable act. Ben's road to redemption could be a long and arduous one; something which we really haven't seen yet in the canon.

 

Personally, I would like to see Kylo Ren kill the Supreme Leader Snoke to "complete his training" AND Luke Skywalker (in front of an incapacitated but conscious Rey after Rey and Luke confront Kylo Ren together in an attempt to bring him back) in 8; and be set up as the ultimate threat/bad guy for 9...no more super weapons to fight, just a galactic civil war as the back drop for an epic light-dark power struggle between a seemingly super-powerful Kylo and a seemingly over-matched Rey.

Round 1 of Rey v. Ren in episode VII went to Rey in a Rocky-esque upset...
Round 2 of Rey v. Ren in episode VIII should be an epic beat down on a scale more humiliating than Luke v. Vader in ESB...
Round 3 of Rey v. Ren in episode IX would then be truly set up for an epic grand finale with Rey as the light-side champion, who ultimately must overcome a seemingly indestructible (at that point) Ren as the dark-side titan; AND her own previous failures and losses to the same (death of Han [in VII], death of Luke [in VIII], defeat of Rey [before killing Luke in VIII]).

It also opens a very interesting opportunity for Leia to serve as a mentor (or even savior) to Rey after the loss of both Luke and Han. Leia as Luke's twin is massively under-played in the saga to date...there is plenty of room in the character space for Leia to become far, far more than has been seen to date. Rey is a fascinating character in 7 because of her developing power and innate Force ability without training, but to make that really pay off for the character, she must experience inordinate loss along the journey to make her a classic character for all-time. The "hero's journey", so prevalent as the theme for the saga in Lucas' original treatment, is always complimented by the introduction of the wise advisor/trainer who must impart wisdom to the hero to help them overcome their darkest moments. What better way could it be done then by having Rey rise up to defeat the most powerful dark side user, and murderer of her father and uncle, in the ultimate showdown of good versus evil, all due to assistance or help from Leia?

I firmly believe that Luke will die at the hands of Kylo Ren in Episode VIII to set him up as both the most loathed character in the entire Saga (who the hell is going to even like him if he kills BOTH Han AND Luke on-screen????), but also as the ultimate challenge for the galaxy...something far more dangerous and echoing the words of Vader in Epsiode 4 regarding "technological terrors" and the "power of the force".

 

I'm certain he will either do something to be redeemed, or fail to make that choice at a crucial point near the end of the trilogy that will seal his fate.

 

I like this theory a lot. Now I don't like the thought of Kylo killing Luke anymore than I liked the thought of him killing Han. But if it means seeing up an epic conflict for episode 9 it would certainly do the trick. Rey might then be faced with the choice of embracing the dark to seek revenge or continue Luke and Han's attempts to bring Kylo back to the light- as perhaps the only one left in the galaxy who believes in him. Even Leia is probably done with him at this point.

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I'm pretty certain we'll see him redeemed, just because of the way they've set the character up. He's been conflicted from the start and even after the act of killing his own father, which should have been the definitive final step towards the dark side, the script makes it clear that he doesn't get the resolution he wanted and if anything becomes more conflicted. If that can't turn him fully to the dark side, I'm not sure anything can.

I like the idea of his redemption happening sooner in his story than Vader's did, during/at the end of Episode VIII maybe, and perhaps leading him to fully switching sides and fighting AGAINST the First Order by the end. That kind of development of his character would be far more satisfying than the old clichéed last-minute change of heart two seconds before death.

Also, on a more shallow note, movie-goers love a good old redemption. It's much more thrilling to watch than if all the bad guys were to stay bad all the way to the end. Kylo Ren seems to have gathered himself an impressive amount of fans for a villain, and I reckon the majority of them would prefer to see him redeemed.

 

Here's my theory for what it's worth. Snoke (whoever he maybe?) is hellbent on ending the Skywalker family line, Luke is aware of Snoke and his intentions and his exile is while he meditates on how to deal with this threat.

Kylo/Ben is unaware that he is a Skywalker, same with Rey, and that is how Snoke has him onside at the moment, with the intention of killing him once the rest are dead and therefore killing the Skywalker family line... To defeat Snoke, Rey and Ben (dark and light) will have to work together, and this is why Luke is conflicted, how can it be?

Dark and Light sides together will balance the force at the end of episode 9, to defeat Snoke, and Ben will be redeemed! (And more than likely dead!)

 

Crazy theory: I've said a variation of this before but I think late in the game Kylo turns to the light side. He'll be mortally wounded by Snoke or maybe Hux, and in the final moments of his life, while on board his father's old ship, the Millennium Falcon, Kylo will go on a suicide run, ramming the Falcon into a Star Destroyer and helping save the day.

In Kylo's last scene we'll see him seated in the co-pilot seat, tears in his eyes, but relieved to be free of the dark side. He'll look over at the empty pilot's chair once occupied by his father and smile a little smile knowing that he's about to be reunited with his father. Right before impact, we'll get a camera shot from behind the two chairs, we'll see the chairs in darkened silhouette and the Star Destroyer taking up the entire view outside the Falcon's cockpit. Cut to a wide shot of the impact and the Star Destroyer exploding.

 

He wont be redeemed. The whole point of his character is that not everyone is born evil or find it easy. A lot of people chose it because of the benefits that come with it. I don't care if he feels evil or regrets his actions. Kylo has made his choice and I hope he sticks with it until the end. When you join an order that wants and succeeds in blowing up planets, killing billions of lives and kill your father because he's an obstacle that's it. You don't get to come back from that. At least not in my opinion.

 

His redemption arc has already played out in TFA....he turned it down.

Kylo is meant to be a young, green villain...the point of this trilogy will be seeing how he grows into the character that he seems to be enamored by (Vader).

He's already rejected Luke's path...and was able to actually kill his father.

He'll now be scarred up.

I imagine that he kills Snoke next.

 

I can see his character going in two directions:
1) Kylo Ren was able to do what Luke was not able to do--kill his father. We are witnessing the early development of a bad guy who is on the path toward becoming extremely powerful and ruthless.

2) They play off the "conflicted villain" angle this entire trilogy and his character is a constant struggle between good and bad and a fear of inadequacy in comparison to Vader.

 

I personally think it's going to be 1....that Han death has to have meant *something*.

But I admit, I could see it being 2 as well.

 

Han's death does mean something. It means Harrison Ford finally got his wish.

 

If he does get saved, it has shown that neither uncle or parent were able to reach him so what hope would a cousin have? I'm guessing the only person who could have a chance would be a sibling.

 

Though if (let's say for Arguments sake Rey is Kylo's Cousin) they are both only children, it may have been closer to Brother / Sister relationship, probably spent alot of time together at the academy and what not.

I want Kylo to remain a complex, conflicted Character, I don't want him becoming black and white evil has already been done by Star Wars Supremely (Vader in Ep IV and V | Palpatine throughout) Whether he is redeemed or not, I'm not sure, Both can be good scenarios, Kylo Killing Snoke (people think he's redeemedm but then he kills Luke as well or something and becomes supreme leader) or Kylo somehow sacrificing himself to save the day. But both have to be done well!

 

I think it'd have to be done amazingly delicately to not feel cheap if they wanted to go that way, especially if they kept him alive. Being complicit in the deaths of the citizens of multiple planets plus killing his father makes it feel weird if they want him to be redeemed yet somehow allowed to do anything other than rot in jail, in my opinion. Darth Vader got around that by dying the second he was redeemed.

 

As we all know Han and Kylo's faceoff on the catwalk mirrors Obi-Wan and Vader's. In the latter duel Obi-Wan says, "strike me down and I'll become more powerful". When Han and Kylo face off it's Kylo who is hoping that he'll become more powerful by striking down Han and on it's face it looks like he does. However I think Han's death is going to eat away at Kylo and will eventually lead to his downfall. So in a way Han, like Obi-Wan will become more powerful in death than in life. Kylo's memory of Han will be more powerful than Han was in life. This will lead Kylo to the light side though I don't know if that's the same as saying he'll be redeemed. He might do something to help The New Republic but it won't make up for his past evil deeds.

 

Seeing a bad guy redeemed? I really hope not! Been there, done that!

 

No thanks, no need to see this movie. Would be the most terrible and lazy thing to do. To kill Luke just to show how powerful Kylo is now. Then Luke will never establish the new Jedi order. And if also Rey is not his daughter, this would be too much for me to be interested anymore.

 

Kylo is irredeemable to me. If they turn him back to the light and he does anything but die immediately, I'd be disappointed. He should be the anti-vader… meaning, he's evil, the end, done. Executing his own father was twisted. Skwyalkers are big into family, including Vader. Kylo outright rejected that aspect of himself. He did what even Vader wasn't evil enough to do. It diminishes the impact of that murder to redeem Kylo.