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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Can someone explain how an eye witness does nothing

Discussion in 'Archive: Your Jedi Council Community' started by beezel26, Nov 8, 2011.

  1. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn

    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 1999
  2. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    These parts bug me
    What a heavy handed and patronizing way to begin this.
    Well this is dumb. No one is commenting on those who wear Penn State shirts. What a non sequitur.
    Ah. Well that's good to know. People he knows are saying these things. Funny how I have never seen any of that. But I guess I need to take your word for it that people are saying this. Okay.
    Oh. So that's what's important here. Penn Staters finding their way. I guess I just couldn't see the big picture.
     
  3. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn

    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 1999
    Maybe so, but have you ever been a member of a group that has powerful in-group definitions that are hard to explain to others?

    And it might be heavy-handed because as the letter goes on to say, it feels to many as if this whole situation has their moral compasses and/or minds spinning. It really does go to personal definition for some people.

    I have seen some pretty over-the-top vitriol directed at the university itself, the student body, etc. Not all commentators lack nuance, but many do.

    I don't understand your reaction here. That is what the point of the letter is? The whole thing is about how the egregiousness of the issue essentially creates cognitive dissonance, attempts to explain what the sides of that dissonance are to people who aren't personally associated with the institution, and presents one way someone feeling those effects resolves them.
     
  4. beezel26

    beezel26 Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 11, 2003
  5. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn

    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 23, 1999
    Governor Corbett may have done something helpful/prudent in this case, but check out how the whole fracking issue is going in PA (as in, hydraulic fracturing)... that's where the corruption (or at least bad judgment) lies with him.

    I think one of the lessons of this is that it often is less helpful than not to call people "good" or "bad." People who have done good things are also capable of being grossly negligent or even harmful. Living with the contradictions might be difficult but I think it's more truthful.
     
  6. Eeth-my-Koth

    Eeth-my-Koth Jedi Grand Master star 9

    Registered:
    May 25, 2001
    WTF?!?! I thought this was a joke.
    Sandusky wrote a book about his life titled "Touched"

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1582613575/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1321052125&sr=8-1
     
  7. A Chorus of Disapproval

    A Chorus of Disapproval Head Admin & TV Screaming Service star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Aug 19, 2003
    Vin, I will gladly read it to you in bed while we snuggle and I run my fingers through your chest hair.
     
  8. Katya Jade

    Katya Jade Administrator Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2002
    Yeah, this is what makes me the most ill. McQueary actually saw it happen, left and called his dad instead of the police? It was a CHILD. Even in shock, you can react better. Is their system over there so screwed up that they think the coaches can get away with anything? And his dad didn't tell him to call the flipping police? I just don't get it at all. I really don't have sympathy for anyone at Penn State other than the children who were abused.
     
  9. beezel26

    beezel26 Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 11, 2003
    Part of it might be institutionalization of faculty when it comes to reporting problems.

    Look at some of our fellow Jcers who are teachers and their reactions. Its really scary. They are defending their decision to not call the cops because its not the way you do things. Yet at the same time a lawyer aka Danny who knows the law clearly sees a problem and sees the moral decision would be to call the cops. In the minds of those institutionalized the only thing you do is report to a superior. That is the law and that is all you do. Yet they dont see the grasp of morality behind the decision. The law says at minimum you talk to a superior. But that would be for a suspicion of a crime. Minimum, but you can easily contact the cops and make your own statement if you are a witness to a crime. The law doesn't say you don't have to but it encourages witnesses to come forward. Remember the police commissioner clearly stated that JoePA was in the wrong, he could have called police. Why because of the morality of it. And because their was a witness to a crime. Just as if their was a witness to a break in of someone's vehicle in the parking lot. Do you think a teacher would report a fellow teacher breaking into a car of a person on campus and damaging the vehicle. No they would call the police to give a statement. The police would be involved and that teacher would be a witness. But if a teacher damaged that same car and left a calling card then all they could do is report it to a superior because they can not be sure who is responsible if no one saw anything.

     
  10. Darth Morella

    Darth Morella Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2004
    That is **, a crime is a crime and if you witness one the least you should do is call the police. I'm sure many faculty members I know would agree with this.
     
  11. Healer_Leona

    Healer_Leona Squirrel Wrangler of Fun & Games star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2000
    I keep coming here and reading more and shouldn't. I wind up typing a a very angry post and then just delete it.

    It is beyond disturbing that all involved failed so very badly and allowed this to continue. I feel there should be repercussions to all involved and losing their jobs just seem justice enough considering what these children lost.

    If I were at Penn State I would feel shame.
     
  12. beezel26

    beezel26 Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 11, 2003
    Do you know which ones would. Or would you hope they would. Its partly possible that the institutionalization of others leads us to believe that they would easily witness something, tell someone and leave it at that. Basically in their minds they told someone so they do not have to do anything else. The limit of their involvement is telling an authority figure and that is all. Nothing else. It is scary to think that is what happened in this case. A man witnessed such a heinous act and the boss said he was aware and would take care of it. End of that. Perhaps being JoePa and Sandusky he couldn't do anything because of his job but he never tried to sabotage Sandusky and or find some way of getting his story out.
     
  13. wannasee

    wannasee Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 24, 2007
    meh, we all the know the kinds of personalities that just "do their job" exactly as it is described and will do nothing else, no matter how dumb or impractical or wrong their orders are.

    I hate them too, but what can you do? Some people are just like that.
     
  14. Healer_Leona

    Healer_Leona Squirrel Wrangler of Fun & Games star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2000
    I find the choice of saving ones job over protecting children of assrape a pretty damn poor excuse. I'm sure if it was his child he'd feel the same.

    It that's what it is, I hope he's happy with it.


    Despise and vilify? Are the kind of people that allow this to continue to happen really the type that should be teaching/coaching our children?




     
  15. alt0233

    alt0233 Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Apr 4, 2002
    I've worked at 4 different universities, including public, private, religious, and secular, and if I heard of abuse of any sort, I'd report it, no questions. Depending on the context I may report it to my supervisor first, but if they didn't do anything I'd go above their heads. Yes institutions have processes and levels of beaurocracy, and there are times that it drives me crazy to work within the system and I wish I could just break out of it but I follow it anyways. But there's a line, and while it may be a struggle for me to distinguish which things I'd break policy for and which I wouldn't in some cases, if a child was being raped, no question, I'd break policy and risk my job. No question. And I fail to understand how it would be a question for people in general.
     
  16. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick SFTC VII + Deadpool BOFF star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000

    Exactly. There should have been no question about that when those involved at Penn State knew of what was going on, but sadly that wasn't the case. This whole situation just sickens me to no end.


    Laker games cancelled (so far) due to the current NBA lockout: 14[face_frustrated]
     
  17. solojones

    solojones Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 27, 2000
    What about calling the cops? I mean, I understand the need to report things to your superiors, but I feel like ultimately the people who need to know are the cops so they can arrest the guy. I mean, it does no good for the guy's superiors to ask him, "Hey so were you raping that kid in the showers?" The witness knew what he saw.

    If this were second-hand report or suspicions, I would go to my superior. If this were something I personally witnessed, I would go to the cops.


    -sj loves kevin spacey
     
  18. Dark Lady Mara

    Dark Lady Mara Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 1999
    Regarding that open letter, when it comes to shameful displays like the Penn State students rioting in support of their coach, I don't care what their special little in-group felt. If any parents of children who were victimized saw that spectacle, I would understand if they had accidentally throttled a few of the rioters.
     
  19. Darth Morella

    Darth Morella Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2004
    Meh, what's the point?
     
  20. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    I really should stop opening news stories about this. I get tidbits like


    -The judge that gave a lenient $100,000 bond (with no ankle bracelet like the DA requested) to Sandusky is connected to his "charity."

    -The DA who originally investigated Sandusky in 1998 disappeared in 2005, his car and computer found in a river. Probably not directly connected, but holy ****, what kind of stuff was he involved in?
     
  21. block

    block Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2004
    Bob Costas just interviewed him over the phone on Rock Center. Absolutely stomach turning.
     
  22. AaylaSecurOWNED

    AaylaSecurOWNED Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    May 19, 2005
    Roo and I discussed that a bit upthread. His computer was found with the hard drive missing and his home computer had searches in the browser history for "how to wipe a hard drive." It may not be directly connected, but like Roo said, a missing hard drive definitely suggests kiddie porn to me.
     
  23. DarthTunick

    DarthTunick SFTC VII + Deadpool BOFF star 10 VIP - Game Host

    Registered:
    Nov 26, 2000
    I saw some quotes from Sandusky (I didn't watch this interview, I don't plan to. Will more than likely hear audio segments on local radio (ie: their podcasts) later on) on a local talk radio site moments ago....................my goodness.[face_sick]


    Laker games cancelled (so far) due to the current NBA lockout: 14[face_frustrated]
     
  24. Darth McClain

    Darth McClain Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 5, 2000

    I'm glad that I missed it. I read a few quotes on Twitter on my break at work, and, man...bad news all around.
     
  25. Luna_Nightshade

    Luna_Nightshade Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2006
    A generally good summary of Bob Costa's interview with Sandusky.

    This is very difficult for me to read, mainly because of Sandusky's distorted idea of what constitutes inappropriate behavior/sexual abuse, and partly because of the defense attorney's claims.

    So apparently being a "jock" means this sort of thing is normal, because jocks are overgrown children. Word to the jocks out there.

    EDIT: Also, the things happening to Joe Paterno are "not my [Sandusky's] fault.]" ....What?