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CT Can someone please explain why Episode V is considered the best?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Logan La Marco, Mar 4, 2016.

  1. ppslytherin1994

    ppslytherin1994 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Dec 22, 2017
    The same reason people consider Revenge of the Sith the best of the Prequels. Because they are both apparently "dark" the most "adult-like" films of the series...which I find to pretty laughable to be honest.

    I think both films have a false conception of what is considered "dark" and they both try a little too hard to be something their not.
     
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  2. Master_Lok

    Master_Lok Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 18, 2012
    Empire builds upon the characters and storylines and gives everyone a bit more depth. Plus, cliffhangers and some very good battles, on land, in the mind and in the heart.

    Sadly, I do not remember anything from seeing ESB 3x back then, except that I saw it 3 times (meanwhile I saw the original 13x over it's release and rereleases.) It was my favorite until recently, which is the original film again. As someone else said much better than me, you got sucked into that world completely and I'd say the same for Empire. The world building, drama and storylines are quite good.

    I suppose the dark elements have something to do with why people enjoy it, for me it's a fantastic continuation to a wonderful start.
     
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  3. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    @ ppslytherin1994

    On the contrary, I think TESB is the best one because it feels the most natural, and the one where everybody obviously isn’t trying too hard. The excellent script, score and character development carries the movie along effortlessly.
     
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  4. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
    I would add, the ending leaves us with more to come in a universe we want to play in.
     
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  5. DealAlterer

    DealAlterer Jedi Knight star 2

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Agreed.

    Han has no personal journey at all. His goal is seemingly getting Leia to admit that she has feelings for him, that's it. Beyond that he ends the movie the same character as he begins it.

    Leia goes through more of a change, but it's not particularly deep or interesting. The love triangle aspect between Luke and Han was cut so that handicaps her from the start. Her whole arc boils down to coming to terms with her ego and admitting that she has the hots for Han. But we could already assume that after their first real scene together on Hoth.

    Meanwhile Luke is almost a completely different character. In ANH he was a naturally wholesome guy who was willing to die for what he believed in. There was no indication that he would ever be the type that would give in to the dark side. He never really battled with temptation.
     
  6. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2015
    It's because it didn't rehash like many other sequels did, and instead branched off from A New Hope into a larger story. Also it was very well made. Expanded the mythos of Star Wars further than anyone else expected
     
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  7. Chancellor Yoda

    Chancellor Yoda Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 25, 2014
    I have to say despite being on the Empire camp as it were ( as both a great star wars film and a great film in general) this is one of my favorite posts on this thread. I agree with you especially on the first 20-30 minutes being a true welcoming to the universe and I would argue perhaps the best opening of the saga.
     
  8. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    It has classic exchanges like

    “Get outta here Lando”
    “Shut up and listen. Now Vader’s agreed to turn Leia and Chewie over to me”
    “Over to you?”
    “They’ll have to stay here but at least they’ll be safe”
    “What about Han?”
    “Vader’s giving him to the bounty hunter”
    “Vader wants us all dead!”
    “He doesn’t want you at all, he’s after somebody called er...Skywalker
    “Luke!”
    “Lord Vader set a trap for him”
    “And we’re the bait?”
    “Yeah, well he’s on his way”

    Awesome scene.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  9. JorakUln

    JorakUln Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    May 23, 2005
    So true. Not sure how people can say TLJ ruined the OT for them. If anything you just want to cling to these films even more.

    Most people talk about the obvious scenes - I am your father, anything with Yoda, Billy Dee Williams charm, the getaway at the end. But for me it's the "Asteroid Field" segment which is the moment the movie went from being just another great Star Wars movie to the greatest film of all time.

    I left this comment on the clip:

    Everything just comes together to create magic. Effects, tension, music, cinematography, script, pacing.....god, just so damn brilliant.



    Harrison Ford, Kershner, Kurtz, Kasdan, Williams collaborated in this scene to create something never seen before and arguably never seen again. I also feel like this clip shows better than any other scene in SW why Han Solo is lowkey the most critical piece behind every successful Star Wars film. The OT and TFA were great in large part because of him. Every other movie has been unable to replace what he brought to the table.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
  10. cxcfffxx

    cxcfffxx Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jan 17, 2017
    One of the positives of this movie are the characters, you already know them, but here their development are better than the first movie.
     
  11. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015
    Empire is a bloody good film but it's clear that Leia was completely there to prop up Han(similar to TLJ with Rey and Luke!) since she was pretty cut off from the film. That is my biggest criticism of ESB.

    It's really a mix of Han and Luke's
    movie really. ROTJ seemed to go back to the ANH style and flesh it out more. ESB was needed, although ROTJ made a wise decision to balance out the characters again.
     
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  12. Bob Effette

    Bob Effette Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 20, 2015
    I agree about the Asteroid Field, it is sublime. Watch how the four move around in that tight cockpit set during the frenetic chase, jumping in and out of seats and squeezing past each other. Along with the dialogue, the score, everything they totally nail it as a set piece. It’s pure ballet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2018
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  13. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    Don't know why you'd leave Lucas out of that mix (and Kurtz in since he had next to nothing to do with it in the first place!)

    Maybe you could go into that more?

    Every film has been successful and he's only been in 4 of them (soon to be 5). There really was nothing to replace because he was not needed when he wasn't there.
     
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  14. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Agreed with you until you said TFA was "great" lol
    1. Please explain how these films are not "darker" than the others.
    2. Explain "what they are" and also what "they are trying to be."

    You seem to be really reaching for excuses to be combative IMO
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
    Martoto77 likes this.
  15. Master Endz-One

    Master Endz-One Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2017
    The Battle of Hoth, Luke's training under Yoda, Lando, Bespin, Learning more of the Jedi, seeing the Emperor, the odds faced by the Rebels, seeing Luke turn from kid to young man ( force user), Boba Fett and you have to remember that Cliffhanger " Luke I am your father " was not done before, totally shocking the Audience.
     
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  16. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    One good reason. Nobody thought the first movie could ever be topped.
     
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  17. Deliveranze

    Deliveranze Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2015
    Empire to me is the only OT film I can sit all the way through. Cloud City is the best planet of the trilogy, and I find all the characters are at their most interesting. Battle of Hoth is our first large scale battle, the lightsaber duel is fantastic, Luke's journey imo is also at its most intriguing.

    Only down sides to me are the romantic subplot, C-3PO's scenes, and the asteroid chase is boring at times (luckily that is intertwined with Vader's scenes so its all good in my book)
     
  18. Sith Lord 2015

    Sith Lord 2015 Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2015
    Only, it wasn't topped. ANH was unique, while ESB is a pretty decent sequel. What it lacks is the sheer energy and dynamics of the original. The battle of Yavin will always be my favorite SW battle of all. Also it has the sense of climax, which is somewhat lacking in ESB.
     
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  19. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    They aren't the same kind of movie. But since the mid eighties it has been widely considered that ESB did top the first movie and has broadly been considered the best Star Wars movie since, which precisely is what the OP is referring to.

    The fact that, naturally, not everyone agrees is another discussion.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2018
  20. CLee

    CLee Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2017
    I have to wonder if part of that was growing dissatisfaction that Jedi took the series in a more rehashing and much more cuter/overly cute and kiddy direction and so to emphasize how much better Empire was and how Jedi should have been more like it fans emphasized TESB was the best of the whole trilogy.
     
  21. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    I'm not sure about that. Return Of The Jedi has experienced a bit of a fairer deal since then, while esteem for the Empire Strikes Back has been steady. Empire certainly didn't being to eclipse Star wars right away but I don't think that ROTJ's perceived dip greatly enhanced ESB. Since initial reaction to ESB wasn't that it was even as good as the first movie, you would have expected ROTJ to confirm that the saga had been going downhill since ANH. As it was, ROTJ suffered, in part from the high hopes that ESB had given us.
     
  22. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    The irony of Jedi is that IMO its one of the best action adventure movies ever made, its just that its judged against 2 of the best films of all time in the orginal and Empire.

    Nearly 40 years later its easy to lose sight of the impact that Empire had, not only is it groundbreaking in not being a rehash like many sequels were back then, but it expanded the world, the story and the characters and was a bona fide middle act in a trilogy that left a cliffhanger, which was unheard of for films back then. Now its commonplace and we take it for granted.
     
  23. CLee

    CLee Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Jun 18, 2017
    Yeah, but it's interesting that back then there were very mixed feelings, if not more negativity, to both a sequel that was really different from the first film and an ending that wasn't really an ending.
     
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  24. AndyLGR

    AndyLGR Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 1, 2014
    Yet we now realise it was groundbreaking. I came out of that cinema as a kid thinking that having to wait 3 years to see what happened to Han Solo was forever!
     
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  25. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    That is correct. Ben Burt describes the "capricious" fan reaction to Empire but then, within about a year, the realization of what Empire had achieved totally overwhelmed the initial disorientation.