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Lit Can Star Wars learn anything from Star Trek?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth_Duck, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    It's clear by the number of time threads have been hijacked, some folks here like Star Trek. But can we discuss Star Trek w/r/t Star Wars without annoying non-Trekkies by our tangents? What this thread presupposes is that we can.

    Firstly, this isn't a place to complain about how Gene Roddenberry, Fred Freiberger, Michael Piller, Rick Berman, Brannon Braga, JJ Abrams, Justin Lin, Simon Pegg, Bryan Fuller, CBS or anyone else "ruined" Star Trek. There's a whole internet for that. It's also not a place to complain about how JJ Abrams or Rian Johnson or anyone else "ruined" Star Wars. There's other threads for that.

    This thread is for productive discussion, like the question it asks.

    Can Star Wars learn anything from Star Trek?

    Looking at the franchise as a whole is there anything about the way Trek does things that Star Wars can take going forward? Are there ideas and concepts in Trek that can work in Wars? Are there Trek products that would work for Wars?

    W/r/t to the last one, over in the Essential Atlas thread the magnificent Star Trek: Stellar Cartography box set of ten 24x36 maps and a booklet has been brought up (by me). And that's a nice, fancy thing that I think would have an audience among us. Imagine what those ten maps could hold. Sectors for all regions. Battles of the Clone Wars. Hutt Space, in Huttesse, in a Hutt style. It could be lovely.

    Here's a review of the Trek collection:
    http://www.thetrekcollective.com/2013/12/review-stellar-cartography.html?m=1

    Something like the Ships of the Line calenders would also be pretty popular, too.

    I also think the mobile game Star Trek: Timelines could be readjusted to Star Wars and include Legends characters, but it's just a silly game.

    Moving beyond products... Trek loves it's random space phenomena that mess up the ship somehow and need a technobabble solution. Wars doesn't need to adopt that. Hera and Chopper recombobulizing the main turbotrihexaphine compressor before the tertiary auxiliary gravimetric hypertrans-stabilizer valve explodes, probably by shunting the excess power through the port maneuvering jet bypass interchange, isn't what I want from Wars. In Wars technical trouble should be an impediment to the adventure, not the whole adventure.

    I can think of a lot of Trek-style stories that I can't easily see working in Wars. The Prime Directive debates. Holodeck and Transporter malfunctions are certainly out the window. But do a threat like the Borg work? Do aliens like the Prophets, the Metrons or the Q work in a SW setting? What about the doomsday machine, Tin Man or that weird bendy-straw emergent lifeform from the TNG on a train episode? Symbiotic species like the Trill?

    What do you fine people think? Can Star Wars learn anything from Star Trek?

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    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  2. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2016
    I would love to see SW have more exploration in it. Additionally Trek's handling of AI is something I wanna see SW try their hand at more
     
  3. Ewan Tibbetts

    Ewan Tibbetts Jedi Padawan star 1

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    Nov 13, 2016
    Star Trek has never acknowledged it's novels and comics as canon. I think that's saved it's fan base an incredible amount of heartbreak.

    I agree with @vncredleader on AI. I find it hard to get over the lack of in universe debate about droids.
     
  4. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Trek novels now are a cohesive universe-not because Paramount acknowledged them as canon but because the authors and editors decided to make them so after Enterprise ended.
     
  5. sidv88

    sidv88 Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Aug 22, 2005
    They don't fit with the games though. I remember Star Trek Legacy mentioning Mayweather aboard the Enterprise during the Romulan War, while the novels had Mayweather transferred off.

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  6. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    STO and the novelverse are different universes.
     
  7. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2009
    The post ST:Destiny has been handled much better than post NJO.

    Currently the Trek novels have become small in stories with an overreaching back ground, much more story sustainable that epic battle of good vs evil #235.

    As for general concepts, exploration not only of the unknown, but also how the society of the GFFA works, would be a good addition to star wars.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2018
  8. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Aug 8, 2016
    One advantage Trek had is multiple character groups-DS9, Voyager, TNG, Titan, etc...-they all have their own story tracks that intersect and diverge.

    Currently Voyager in the novels is in the DQ with a federation exploration fleet, Julian Bashir is in a coma after having taken down Section 31, Ben Sisko is in the GQ doing exploration and there are hints Kira will replace him as emissary, Riker is some sort of front line admiral.

    Enterprise is continuing as well-I believe it's the early federation 2160s and the crew deals with various crises and so on.

    Basically Trek has a lot of character or story clusters thus giving Trek writers more room for stories.

    Star Wars post NJO-had one character cluster-the New Jedi Order specifically the sky solo clan and their associates, friends, and allies. And enemies. And I guess the mandos were a separate character cluster somewhat. And Legacy as well.

    Small scale stories-exploration character growth, and so on would have really benefited the post NJO novels.

    Trek on the other hand as had one major crisis for the fate of the Galaxy(or really Alpha Quadrant) and that was Destiny-or the final Borg assault.

    I don't expect there will be another such big IU crisis until the Hobus Supernova-which I'm hoping they'll write a Destiny style trilogy for at some point.
     
  9. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    I did always enjoy Trek's ability to tell stories that don't necessarily involve war. The sort of wonder of exploring space / meeting new cultures. Star Wars could use some of that.
     
  10. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    They wrote a comic at least, covering the events leading up to the supernova, and its aftermath.
     
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  11. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    I mean a novel trilogy taking place in the prime novelverse. And the consequences thereof-such as the effects on the Typhon Pact, Spock disappearing, among other things.

    Personally I suspect the Hobus Supernova will destabilize the Typhon Pact and drive the Romulan Star Empire into the Federation's sphere of influence.
     
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  12. vncredleader

    vncredleader Jedi Master star 4

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    Mar 28, 2016
    Agreed. As much as I love SW, the GFFA often lacks that sense of wonder and majesty Trek can give you. Sometimes you just wanna see people enjoy the infinite possibilities of the final frontier.
     
  13. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Force Ghost star 9

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    Sep 2, 2012
    If the novelverse is getting close to the time the Hobus Supernova was supposed to have occurred, it might make sense to include some tie-ins, true.
     
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  14. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    The novelverse has reached as far as 2386 and Hobus happens in 2387. However there have been epilogue sand prologues set after as well the DTI novellas(time travel of course).

    According to recent reports they worked out the various legal issues and so could proceed. But I'm not sure.
     
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  15. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    The Trek contract renewal with Pocket Books is still being negotiated.

    Use of Kelvinverse concepts is thought to be the main cause of it all taking so long, but nothing is known for certain due to the negotiations being confidential.

    As to what Wars could learn from Trek - the idea that people want further adventures of characters A, B and C and not just killing them off instead.
     
  16. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Knight star 3

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    May 3, 2015
    I'll list a negative, and a positive.

    The Negative: Star Trek has a problem with the overuse of the "planet of hats" trope: "All Klingons are warriors, all Ferengi love profit, all Vulcans are logical, ect." I can't help but feel some of the early Star Wars EU materials that fleshed out the Star Wars aliens was using the same formula: All Hutts are crime lords, all Trandoshans are Bounty Hunters, all Bothans are spys, ect. Thankfully both franchises seem to be moving past that. Star Trek's approach seems to be more of a cultural examination about the problems that can arise when your species all agree to wear one hat. Star Wars is more about exceptions to the rule like Blotus the honest Hutt or Slyysk the cowardly Trandoshan. In the old EU, they felt the need to justify why a Rodian would join Rouge Squadron, and both Leia and Mothma said some sort of speciest things about them. In the New Canon we're much more likely to see civilian or even heroic Rodians.

    The Positive: Despite my comment on the whole "planet of hats", thing, Star Trek has a wide variety of major and minor powers that have unique ideologies and unique ship designs. Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Borg, Cardassians, Dominion, ect. You can do great stories about the conflicts between these groups, and by "conflict" I don't always mean "war". It can lead to great political drama and examining idealologies. Star Wars has a bit of this with groups like the Mandalorians and Hapans, most of the time the main conflict is between two major factions (and maybe some criminal elements being the wild card).
     
  17. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    There was some politicking in the NJO and there was definitely political complexity in DNT, LOTF and FOTJ(though it wasn't handled especially well).

    The IU set up of Trek is far more conducive for political, diplomatic, or cross cultural stories. What with four or five major powers in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, various minor powers, and not even counting the states in the DQ and GQ.

    The IU set up of Star Wars is far more I don't want to say monolithic but politically unified-with one major power most of the time or two(before Ruusan) and various minor factions.
     
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  18. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2000
    Yay, people cared to reply and discuss.

    Yes. The small stories. SW can kinda get into the everyday type of stories in the occasional short story, but it gets glossed over in the big stories.


    This is definitely one of Trek's biggest leg-ups over SW, the 6 different TV crews and the novel crews on top. The X-Wing novels sometimes felt like meeting a new crew sometimes, but their adventures were always going to be dangerous and narrowly focused on blowing stuff up.

    Both of these posts are great. The sense of wonder is something I find pretty non-existent in Trek. In Trek the galaxy is big and new and everything is exciting. In SW the galaxy is old and we don't usually follow people who would stop to look at anything for the sense of wonder.

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  19. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 25, 2013
    It's part of what I liked about the Han Solo Adventures and especially Lando Calrissian Adventures. There was some delightfully weird stuff in there.
     
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  20. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    We needed more Dawn of the Jedi era stuff.
     
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  21. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 13, 2000
    DotJ does have a big galaxy to explore.
    I've long thought based on the LCA and the BFC that Lando could be plopped into the Star Trek universe and be fine. He'd find some weird space stuff, get into shenanigans and then have a drink and gamble at Quark's.

    Speaking of Quark. Do we get a lot of characters like him? Someone just trying to make a semi-honest living? Again this seems like the realm of SW short stories. On screen we get Watto, but he had explosives in people. Then again, Quark would probably put bombs in the daboo ladies if he thought he'd get away with it. Han I guess, was this kind of person, but he went respectable for a while in a way Quark didn't. Lando in EU never really held on to anything the way Quark did with his bar.

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  22. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Yeah, this would actually have been my first choice for new Star Wars movies. Don't get rid of the expanded universe, and forget the original/prequel trilogy era - instead, make a new batch of movies in an entirely new era, you've got 25,000 years to choose from and that's just if you're not going into the future or the pre-Jedi/Republic era. I mean, video games and some novels have had success with that era, and Star Trek succeeded pretty well with the whole "same universe, different era" thing.
     
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  23. Ackbar's Fishsticks

    Ackbar's Fishsticks Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 25, 2013
    Well, Lando's probably the most Quark-ish character I can think of right off the bat - he's a Han Solo type who's gone "respectable," and even in the expanded universe he mostly stays out of galactic politics and sticks to running businesses, with frequent side jobs done with his friends for old times' sake.
     
  24. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Star Trek also has the benefit of much more common time travel.

    But stories about the unification wars, pius dea crusades, first great schism and Alsakan conflicts would have been awesome.
     
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  25. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 13, 2000
    And my biggest complaint about Lando in the EU was that they never really knew what to do with him. He never seemed to have a purpose besides be there for whatever plot they decided to put Lando in.

    But Quark had the benefit of being a character in a series set in a place. SW hasn't really done that besides the beginning of the KotOR comics that introduced Gryph. The true Quark of SW.

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