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Lit Can Star Wars learn anything from Star Trek?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Darth_Duck, Feb 10, 2018.

  1. Force Smuggler

    Force Smuggler Force Ghost star 7

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    Sep 2, 2012
    Fan vote for Black series. Though most people would rather vote for movie or tv characters that are 99.99% guaranteed to get a model regardless.
    I'd love Wraith Squadron as well.
     
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  2. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

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    May 3, 2015
    True, there are exceptions where the tropes I listed appeared in Star Wars. But never in the movies themselves, and when they do appear in the EU the reactions can be mixed with some fans thinking they feel out of place. (See criticisms of Waru and the Ones from TCW).

    Other than the Titan you mentioned, are there any book-only Star Trek characters that got action figures? Because if not, i'm not really seeing a noticeable difference. It sounds like both franchises made merchandise out of even the most obscure background movie/show characters, but rarely did the same with characters appearing exclusively in novels.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  3. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 13, 2000
    @JediBatman, there was a Captain Calhoun action figure 20 years ago. So your point still stands.

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    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
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  4. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Jul 2, 2003
    I don't think so, but 'canon' with Star trek and Star Wars is different. And those novel-only characters were a lot more important in Wars than in Trek. And deserved action figures a lot more than random background character #287 from The last Jedi or Phantom Menace.
     
  5. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

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    May 3, 2015
    IMO I think it has less to do with the canonicity l of the books, and more the fact that in general movies and shows have a larger audience than books, and therefore are more likely to get action figures and other merchandise designed to promote the main product.
     
  6. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Jul 2, 2003
    Fair enough. I guess for me, those book characters are far more important than any character in the movie. I'd pay almost anything for a Tenel Ka action figure. Kylo Ren? Pass!
     
  7. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

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    May 3, 2015
    Fair enough. I guess for me, those book characters are far more important than any character in the movie. I'd pay almost anything for a Tenel Ka action figure. Kylo Ren? Pass![/QUOTE]

    Totally understandable. Just like how I enjoy seeing artwork for vehicles or aliens that first appeared in novels.
     
  8. vong333

    vong333 Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Oct 18, 2003
    I think it should the other way around. Star Wars whether with GL or Disney has made more money in the box office than Star Trek. Star Wars novels and comic books have been very successful and whether one canon or another they mesh way better than Star Treks. Things got better with the new Kelvin timeline Star Trek reboot, but it still can’t compete with Star Wars.

    While one poster posted that Star Trek treats science like magic, and have teleportation, space gods, etc. Let’s not forget that Star Wars before with the defunct canon, and the new canon have shown many of the stuff from Star Trek. In old canon, comic book issue 14 of Ewoks has a teleportation device. New canon, Rebels tv series has that secret Jedi temple on Lothal that the loath-wolf causes to teleport from one side of the hemisphere to the other. I can go on and on. In the Darth Plegius defunct canon novel, page 249, they talk the dark side holocrons of ancient dark spiders that can fly, become invisible, bend time and space etc. in new canon the force powers have triplified. Leia, can now fly in space without a mask and jet pack. Heck, not even the super powerfu Emperor could do that in ROTJ, and he was suppose to be the big baddie
     
  9. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2009
    This is not about the trekwars of the early 2000's, it is about adaptation and development, it is about being more than a one trick pony. The fellows at Red Letter Media said something that spooked me with their review of The Last Jedi. I am paraphrasing "Star Wars is a limited IP with no real future."

    What spooked me is that on a certain level, during the last EU era before the Disney bye-out and the "Ledgends-ization" I agree with them. Star Wars growth as an IP has been hampered the in a way that kept characters and the universe from evolving.

    I usually like How It Should have Ended...but their episode of the last Jedi disturbed me as a fan, especially their Ending. It basically said the best ending is the fan fictiony oroborus of original trilogy.
     
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  10. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    Ironically the prequels weren't the OT remakes that the ST was. And RLM main claim to fame is their utterly fanatical hostility to the prequels.

    As for the last years of Legends-I disagree I think things were picking up-the slump of FOTJ was ending, new eras were being explored, new characters-Darth Plagueis being the main book of the later EU in terms of quality.

    Hopefully had the Disney buyout not happened-the Denningverse would have finally ended and new blood in terms of authors and ideas would have been brought in.

    There was also the various essential guides, Dawn of the Jedi, Legacy Volume 2 among other things cut short by Disney buying the franchise.

    The Trek novels have I think surpassed the old Eu-at least in terms of having a concrete direction. Though anyone that has watched Voyager and read some of the DTI novels knows the Federation IU future is secure. It's just how do we get from the Typhon Pact to the time cops which is interesting-at least to me anyway.
     
  11. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Jul 2, 2003
    Thank you. And to semi-swing it back to the topic, that is definitely something Star Wars can learn from Star Trek. And I think they lost a golden moneymaking opportunity.
     
  12. Sarge

    Sarge Chosen One star 6

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    Oct 4, 1998
    Something we saw fairly often in Trek and very rarely in SW was what normal day-to-day life is like for the regular characters. I'd like to know more about what an ordinary day is like for a Jedi or a smuggler, what they do on a day when they're not trying to prevent the End of Civilization As We Know It.

    But naturally, I only want to see stuff like that if they get it right. If they get it wrong, there shall be much wailing and gnashing of teeth as the offending author is tossed into outer darkness.
     
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  13. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost star 6

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    Nov 12, 2012
    The shipboard drama with accusations of treason and drawn out space chase with resource management and hacking being a plot point in Last Jedi was the most Star Trek-y Star Wars I've ever seen. And I kinda dug it!
     
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  14. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 13, 2000
    Yeah, but all of that went boom. Star Trek doesn't usually end in a boom. They fly away and the good guys maybe even have a laugh at that folksy doctor's ol' fashioned space racism or the robot's misreading of a perfectly normal human expression.
    Could a big Star Wars story where no weapon is used be done well? Would it feel Wars-y enough?

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  15. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2009
    You mean like Star Trek: IV The Voyage home, a high grossing movie with no antagonist? I don't think Disney has the cajones, It is kind of obvious that what they were trying to do with Frozen but got cold feet and made Hans the villain.
     
  16. FiveFireRings

    FiveFireRings Jedi Padawan star 2

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    Nov 26, 2017
    I'll echo the idea that a debate on AI / droid sentience / droid rights is a Trek thing that can and should happen in Wars. It's been implicit since the very first parts of ANH, droids are getting screwed over and discriminated against despite being our audience surrogates for the first half hour; even the "heroes" don't do anything about it, and it's just "talked around". Hell, I think that would be a good topic for one or the other of these new film series, or at least a major thread in one of those SW TV shows. It wouldn't be addressed in a very Trek-like style, but it's a theme that could carry over.
     
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  17. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    The main issue IU with droids is their lack of biology-hence no midi chlorians hence not alive hence not connected to the force.
     
  18. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2009
    Say what? what about Guri? Bio androids are still part of canon....arn't they?

    but I get your meaning, if they are not connected to the force, the characters/issue is a non starter.
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  19. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    IU a lot of Jedi and biological chauvinists(for lack of a better term) would argue droids like Guri are only simalucrums are real beings not truly "alive"

    Of course that point is a philosophical one hence a debatable one.
     
  20. RK_Striker_JK_5

    RK_Striker_JK_5 Jedi Grand Master star 7

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    Jul 2, 2003
    My favorite episode of Star Trek: TNG is 'Measure of a Man', and my favorite character from that series is Data. To me, it doesn't matter if they're biological or technological. Nor do midi-chlorians matter. Threepio and Artoo are alive to me. And they deserve rights. Heck, a while ago i started a fanfic where Bollux and the Blue Max sought asylum in the Federation. I should get back to it one of these days...
     
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  21. Darth Invictus

    Darth Invictus Jedi Master star 4

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    Aug 8, 2016
    They may be sentient by the standards of the Turing Test but can they interact with the force as sentient beings do? That's the key of the issue in Star Wars.
     
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  22. JediBatman

    JediBatman Jedi Master star 4

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    May 3, 2015
    I really don't think that's the key issue to droid sentience in Star Wars. After all, Anakin and Luke treat their droids like part of the family, and many people in the Star Wars galaxy treat droids like appliances wether they believe in the Force or not. The handful of times I can recall droid rights/sentience being brought up in Star Wars, I don't remember anyone IU presenting the argument that their inability to sense the Force is an issue.
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
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  23. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 13, 2000
    If Han or Lando or Chewie or Mon Mothma or Tarkin or most everybody in the galaxy have no clue they're interacting with the Force would the Force matter in how they'd view sentience? Probably not.

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  24. Likewater

    Likewater Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 31, 2009
    Are there crews in the new cannon? Like the crew of the Wild Karrde, and Dash Rendar's crew?
     
  25. Darth_Duck

    Darth_Duck Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Oct 13, 2000
    The crew of the Ghost?

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