Can we trust the UN?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by darthmalt16, Sep 19, 2004.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. darthmalt16 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2000
    star 4
    I'm watching the FOX investigation into UN corruption in the food for oil program. Suggest you tune in

    Apparently various UN members like france made billions from it.


    Supposedly Iraq would only be able to use money earned from the sale of oil to but humanitarian supplies.


    Sadam's trading partners were base in sweden and bahamas.

    He sold oil at cut rate to specific partners. Who then sold at a higher price and put a part of profit in secret accounts for saddam.

    He also got a kick back from the people he bought "food" from by paying inflated prices


    Saddam racked up 10 billion in cash



    Only 7-10% of "approved" shipments to iraq.



    Wow lots of coruption basically unless the U.S. shot it down most things were approved.



    Vouchers were given to people who could buy money
    on a list leaked to iraqi press many names were named including

    pres. of a canadian oil comp
    children of mid east political leaders
    46 Members of Russian gov
    12 members of Russian gov one of which is close to Jac Chirac
    and the name sava (sp?) which is also part of the name of the person who was supposed to be in charge of watching the food for oil program the list shows him getting 3 million in oil vouchers


    france 2.9 billion
    china 2. somethin billion
    russia 1.something billion
    govs in selling "food" to iraq.
    individual companies made more.

    Not in the report but an interesting side note the only 2 Abrams lost to enemy fire were hit in the rear by a new Russian Anti Tank weapon specifically designed to destroy the Abrams tank. Obviuosly Iraq wasnt allowed to have that.
  2. liberalmaverick Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 17, 2004
    star 3
    Er, what exactly is the point?
  3. Cpt_Obvious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2003
    star 4
    The point is no wonder they didn't want the US to go into Iraq.
  4. Gonk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    Hell no, we can't trust the UN! Or France, or Germany!

    And most defiantely not the US!
  5. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    DarthMalt, Do you have any other points of discussion you wish to make?

    Typically, basic "rant" threads don't last very long, as there is no discussion "fabric" to hold them together.

    Are there any specific aspects you want to focus on?
  6. darth_calvin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2002
    star 4
    Ok, just as I thought. This thread isn't going to turn into another "what news outlet is more biased" argument.

    Can this thread be re-engineered, or do people think it is aleardy covered by other topics?
  7. darth_calvin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2002
    star 4
    sorry, i was temporarily possessed and forced to post so.
  8. rogue_wookiee Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 6
    I've known about that for months. That was the reason they didn't want us to go to war with Iraq. And they said Bush was in it for the oil.

    As for can we trust the UN? No. It was a stupid idea to begin with. The UN is the worlds largest joke and should be disbanded before it does any more damage to the world.
  9. Cyprusg Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 16, 2002
    star 4
    You can't trust people. The UN is made up of people...

    The UN is no more corrupt than the United States government or any other government for that matter.
  10. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    I don't agree with cyprus. The US is the most generous and even-handed world power in history, even if it ain't purfect.
  11. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    The US is the most generous and even-handed world power in history, even if it ain't purfect.

    That is more an effect of the fact we have no real threats than it is a quality unique to our society.

  12. J-Rod Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2004
    star 5
    LOL. Whatever reason you believe is fine...however my point stands. We can be trusted more than the UN.
  13. Larmo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2004
    star 3
    LOL. Whatever reason you believe is fine...however my point stands. We can be trusted more than the UN.

    What about those times you invaded Afghanistan and Iraq for no reason :confused:
  14. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    As for can we trust the UN? No. It was a stupid idea to begin with. The UN is the worlds largest joke and should be disbanded before it does any more damage to the world.

    Personally, I think informed opinion is that much better for the palete, though you don't..

    Tell me, Oh Wise One, just how, precisely, it was a joke?

    And yes, I will absolutely pwn whatever you response you manage to cough up.

    LOL. Whatever reason you believe is fine...however my point stands. We can be trusted more than the UN.

    [face_laugh] Maybe, but you'll have a hard time convincing the 95.5% of the world that isn't American of that fact.

    What about those times you invaded Afghanistan and Iraq for no reason

    I hardly think that Afghanistan didn't have a clear and logic reason for happening. If Richard Falk, a name I know I quote in vain here, can consider it just that ought to be good enough for you too.

    E_S
  15. rogue_wookiee Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2004
    star 6
    What about those times you invaded Afghanistan and Iraq for no reason

    Are you serious?
  16. Cpt_Obvious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2003
    star 4
    What about those times you invaded Afghanistan and Iraq for no reason

    I'm not sure where you have been the last 3 years, but there was something called al-qaida in Afghanistan, and who knows about Iraq. Faulty intelligence about current WMD's that they did have at one point. If you want proof, I'll post it.

    Tell me, Oh Wise One, just how, precisely, it (the UN) was a joke?
    And yes, I will absolutely pwn whatever you response you manage to cough up.


    Here's a Joke for you.

    Kofi Annan, the UN Secretary General, said in a speech yesterday that he viewed the war in Iraq as being illegal. Illegal in spite of the fact that Iraq was in violation of the 1991 cease fire agreement, and countless UN sanctions.

    Kofi Annan, who says that the US is not abiding by the law, while he and others wait for a sign from God that they should take action in the Darfur region of Sudan to stop the rape, murder and displacement of thousands of indiginous people.

    Kofi Annan, who speaks about human rights issues while civillians are being killed around the world by fundamental whacko terrorists using the name of God to commit atrocities.

    I am willing to bet you will try to justify that stance by how bad the US is. Well guess what? The UN has the ability to do something about a number of those issues, but won't. You can not justify the lack of UN actions based on the US's actions. That is why the US ambassador is not the Secretary General. It is supposed to be a balance.

    Wagging a finger and scolding those who are committing the atrocities will do nothing to stop the killing, yet the UN is still viewed as a power? That, is the joke.

    "Pwn" that.
  17. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Yeah, the UN hasn't acted.

    Neither has the US, which last time I checked claimed to support peoples worldwide in their quest for liberty.

    Of course, you'll also claim with a straight face taht a) the gassing of the Kurds was as good a reason as any to kick the **** outta Saddam, and b) that the US does exist to protect oppressed people whilst pretending US, UN or anyone-bar-France's inaction in Sudan is anything less than criminal.

    So, the UN's not done anything about Darfur, and it claims to protect those people. That's OK, the US hasn't either and you guys went to war to apparently defend oppressed people.

    Is that a draw or just two forms of blatant hypocrisy?

    E_S
  18. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    The US is acting in our own national interests, E_S.

    As you know, I have no faith in the institution other than its humanitarian efforts.

    It is a useless organization in the modern world in terms of security. It served its purpose in the Cold War, but now I think it has rendered itself irrelevant.

    Kofi Annan is a joke. He calls the US removal of Saddam 'illegal' and does zero about Sudan, Bosnia, Somalia, and on and on. He's no friend of the United States.

  19. JediSmuggler Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 1999
    star 5
    No.

    The events of the last two years have proven that the Useless Nobodies isn't worth trusting.

    They're letting genocide happen in Dafur.
  20. Blue_Jedi33 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2003
    star 5
    Actually that is a good question.

    Right now the UN is only is trong as it's members make it. If Kerry gets in the UN will get stronger.
    It also needs a more forcefull leader.

    And it will eventually try to enforce enviromental protocals, in the future, this is what they are working on right now.
  21. MASTER_JEDI_AS_REK Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2004
    star 1
    Negitive,
    Do not trust the UN. The United Nations is nothing more than club for the worlds elite to gather and figure out ways to maintain absolute power over the rest of the population. They condone un-just wars and stand by and do nothing when action is very warranted. Every single war the United States has fought in since WWII has been an illeagle military action by the goverenment. If you read the constitution: Article 1, Sec. 8, clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
    No where does it say the government has the right to levy wars on other nations pre-emptivley. That is ecactly what we did to Iraq. It must end.
  22. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    It seems fashionable to call for actions in Darfur but how many people who have mentioned it in this thread have any real understanding of the situation there.

    Do they understand the root causes and history of the trouble?

    Do they undrstand the complex tribal, ethnic and religious make up of the region and it's role in the conflict?

    Are they aware of the links between 20 year civil war in Sudan and the present crisis?

    Do they have a clear idea of how to end the bloodshed?

    Do they have any idea of how to formulate a lasting solution?

    In most cases the answer is no and yet they act as though it is a simple matter where the course of action is obvious. It is a complex matter and we should think very carefully before intervening.
  23. Wormie2 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 1999
    star 6
    Is the UN perfect? Of course not. But bare this in mind. This planet is too small for countries to act on their own without consulting and considering the best interest of others as well. Everything we do directly effects other countries. We need a forum to remind us of that. Now whether you choose to then ignore it as Bush did is up to the individual countries but you always need to keep in mind that we are not isolated anymore.
  24. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    The US is acting in our own national interests, E_S.



    I'll remember that the next time you talk about how the US acted for the Iraqi people in Iraq. ;)

    The events of the last two years have proven that the Useless Nobodies isn't worth trusting.

    They're letting genocide happen in Dafur.


    <guffaws> Useless Nobodies! Ha! That's very witty of you JediSmuggler. Ha!

    [face_plain]

    What I find amusing of course is how you used the Kurds as rallying points against Saddam then the second an American round was fired you threw them back on the pile of forgotten ethnic peoples, after milking them for those extra cheap miles of political capital.

    Since you're so upset that the UN isn't doing squat about Darfur, perhaps you'd like to write an angry letter to Mr Bush arguing he should do something since clearly the UN wouldn't. I mean, let's not forget precisely why the US went around the UN in Iraq; they claimed the UN wasn't able to act against Saddam. Since you're "clearly bothered" and "upset" by UN inaction, perhaps you'd better urge your president to do something about it, pronto. You had also better congratulate the French for deploying troops to protect refugee camps in Chad.

    Of course, I am being sarcastic since you and I both know you don't give a flying **** about the Sudanese people nor do you want America to do anything. And whilst there are 190 nations who aren't doing anything to prevent it, we're currently discussing America in deference to your home of the brave.

    That and I rapidly tire of your moral ambivalance and general hypocrisy Smuggler.

    Right now the UN is only is trong as it's members make it

    You're right, absolutely, but just don't tell anyone that. It shatters the picture FOXNews has painted for them of the UN with piercing rays of reality.



  25. Cpt_Obvious Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2003
    star 4
    Ender_Sai, you apparrently are not open minded about anything in the US. While other countries have complained about US actions bypassing the UN, when we do, nothing gets done. Where is the hypocrisy? The US does what the international community wants and then someone complains about our inaction as opposed to the UN's. [face_plain] Are you going to stand on anything besides complaining about the actions of the US?

    DarthKarde, that is a very interesting set of questions you give. I would like to see a thesis on that situation. There are never any easy answers, but to stand by as countless people are effected by the situation is as wrong as anything anyone has pointed out that the US has done.


Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.