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Can you be a right winger or a left winger

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by beezel26, Dec 22, 2013.

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  1. beezel26

    beezel26 Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 11, 2003
    And still not be filled with hate towards pretty much everything else your side stands for? I have noticed a lot of vitriol from both sides compared to Nazi Germany. Yet the only side that can't fight back is the one in the middle. Have we learned nothing from the Nazis. That there are no winners with hate in your heart. There are only bullies, victims, and murderers.
     
  2. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Comparisons of any political debate today to Nazi Germany just indicates that the person making the comparison has no real concept of what happened in Nazi Germany.
     
  3. beezel26

    beezel26 Jedi Master star 7

    Registered:
    May 11, 2003
    I know exactly what happened. And that is why I said it. The Nazis taught hate. The taught ordinary germans to hate their neighbors for no other reason then that they were inferior. Today we teach that those on the other side of the aisle are to be hated because they don't follow the path. It is no different. It is why you see issues with Left wing radicals and right wing radicals. They are taught to hate because they don't agree.
     
  4. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    The Nazis did a hell of a lot more than "teach hate."
     
  5. Lowbacca_1977

    Lowbacca_1977 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2006
    This misrepresents entirely the issues that were present with the Nazis, which went far deeper than just dislike and disagreement. There's a huge difference between large scale genocide and political disagreement, even heated as it has been. There is also that the extremes don't represent political power to the extent that was present in Germany. Not even Greece, with Golden Dawn which does have some very concerning parallels with Nazism, isn't on part with what happened in Germany, since the party as a whole has a vitriolic tone, but they don't have the same sort of power that the Nazis did in. Within the US, there are some extremes, but they don't control the power of government or the party apparatus to the extent to really be an analog for Germany of the late 1930s.

    Some strident disagreement, even openly hostile, doesn't automatically equate to something as systematic and thorough as Nazi Germany.
     
  6. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I love how you say you know what happened, then work so very brow-sweatingly hard to prove you didn't.
     
  7. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Wow. Godwin'd in the OP.
     
  8. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Let's see if Ender, Mr44 and myself met up in a pub, I think the following would happen:

    1. Booze would be drunk.
    2. We wouldn't agree on everything.
    3. Probably have more in common than not.

    Does this extend to the teetotally charged atmosphere of the internet? Pretty much. A lot of the time people tend to reciprocate - don't be a git to them and they won't be to you and, when discussing politics, the default assumption will be: No, the other person is not evil incarnate! Different outlook, or even country, but not evil.

    When discussing politics in the wilder nether regions of the internet? All bets are off, with people typing all kinds of idiotic things they'd never want to be linked to in real life.
     
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  9. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    gabe, aka John C Gabriel, of Penny Arcade had a theory behind this once.
     
  10. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2000
  11. LostOnHoth

    LostOnHoth Force Ghost star 5

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    Feb 15, 2000
    It leaves me gobsmacked that the mods can even consider shutting down a forum that has threads like this one. I mean, for reals?
     
  12. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 29, 2009
    One of several problems today involves people assigning hate to people who may not actually carry any in their heart. So many people have convinced themselves that firm opposition can only be done through hate or fear, which isn't true.
     
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  13. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    ...what?
     
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  14. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

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    Dec 16, 2000
    He's talking about modern sociopolitical dialogue being polarised because it's impossible for the ADD generation to contemplate such a thing as middle ground, Ender, try and keep up :p
     
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  15. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace JCC Ravager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    It appears more to me like he is arguing that people excessively ascribe hate and malice to simple political disagreements.
     
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  16. Saintheart

    Saintheart Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Dec 16, 2000
    On that, the older I get, the more seems truer the proposition that those faults we most upbraid others for are those we see staring back at us most clearly from the mirror.
     
  17. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    You're partially right. I'm talking about the core mindset of the so-called "Liberal Left", who seek to equalize everything because the very notion of an objective standard is appalling to them. For example, people with this view would prefer everyone have terrible medical insurance across the board, than a select few having a better form. They don't care about the causes behind such differences; in their minds, the mere existence of something being objectively better than anything else is damning.

    Evan Sayet did a great speech on this a few years back, called "How Modern Liberals Think". Its about 48 minutes long, but you need to watch the whole thing before commenting, because he puts tons of information on the table.

     
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  18. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    ^^^^^ Looks like "excessively ascribing hate and malice" to me, when you misrepresent the arguments of those who disagree with you politically and make comments like "the very notion of an objective standard is appalling to them".
     
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  19. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian New Films Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Aaaaaand...you just made VVM's point [face_plain]
     
  20. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    What are you saying? That doesn't even make a lick of sense. Someone has taken the holiday mantra of eat, drink and be merry to heart.
     
  21. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Name one member of the PC camp who admits anything is objectively true outside of personal belief.
     
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  22. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    ...with statements like "member of the PC camp".
     
  23. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

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    Dec 29, 2009
    Labeling someone as "politically correct" when their words and actions follow that model does not equal hate or malice.
     
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  24. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace JCC Ravager star 5 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Labeling is itself an act of malice. By labeling, you dismiss your opponent offhand, along with whatever points he may make. By labeling him you have identified the problem right away. It's not the issue at hand that is a problem. It's your opponent. If only your opponent wasn't X, a reasonable solution would have been found.
     
  25. Moviefan2k4

    Moviefan2k4 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 29, 2009
    How is labeling inherently malicious? There's no inherent connection to ill will, and most people don't use it to hurt others' feelings. They're just making a distinction between different worldviews and behaviors.

    This is one of many reasons why I posted that video of Evan Sayet at the Heritage Foundation. One of his points is that the core philosophy of a "Liberal Leftist" is built on purging all discrimination between right or wrong, better or worse. Such a stance is self-defeating, because in order to deny objective truth, you have to rely on the existence of it.
     
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