Can you be a right winger or a left winger

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by beezel26, Dec 22, 2013.

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  1. beezel26 Force Ghost

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    And still not be filled with hate towards pretty much everything else your side stands for? I have noticed a lot of vitriol from both sides compared to Nazi Germany. Yet the only side that can't fight back is the one in the middle. Have we learned nothing from the Nazis. That there are no winners with hate in your heart. There are only bullies, victims, and murderers.
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    Comparisons of any political debate today to Nazi Germany just indicates that the person making the comparison has no real concept of what happened in Nazi Germany.
  3. beezel26 Force Ghost

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    I know exactly what happened. And that is why I said it. The Nazis taught hate. The taught ordinary germans to hate their neighbors for no other reason then that they were inferior. Today we teach that those on the other side of the aisle are to be hated because they don't follow the path. It is no different. It is why you see issues with Left wing radicals and right wing radicals. They are taught to hate because they don't agree.
  4. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    The Nazis did a hell of a lot more than "teach hate."
  5. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

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    This misrepresents entirely the issues that were present with the Nazis, which went far deeper than just dislike and disagreement. There's a huge difference between large scale genocide and political disagreement, even heated as it has been. There is also that the extremes don't represent political power to the extent that was present in Germany. Not even Greece, with Golden Dawn which does have some very concerning parallels with Nazism, isn't on part with what happened in Germany, since the party as a whole has a vitriolic tone, but they don't have the same sort of power that the Nazis did in. Within the US, there are some extremes, but they don't control the power of government or the party apparatus to the extent to really be an analog for Germany of the late 1930s.

    Some strident disagreement, even openly hostile, doesn't automatically equate to something as systematic and thorough as Nazi Germany.
  6. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    I love how you say you know what happened, then work so very brow-sweatingly hard to prove you didn't.
  7. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    Wow. Godwin'd in the OP.
  8. Jedi Ben Chosen One

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    Let's see if Ender, Mr44 and myself met up in a pub, I think the following would happen:

    1. Booze would be drunk.
    2. We wouldn't agree on everything.
    3. Probably have more in common than not.

    Does this extend to the teetotally charged atmosphere of the internet? Pretty much. A lot of the time people tend to reciprocate - don't be a git to them and they won't be to you and, when discussing politics, the default assumption will be: No, the other person is not evil incarnate! Different outlook, or even country, but not evil.

    When discussing politics in the wilder nether regions of the internet? All bets are off, with people typing all kinds of idiotic things they'd never want to be linked to in real life.
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  9. Ender Sai Chosen One

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    gabe, aka John C Gabriel, of Penny Arcade had a theory behind this once.
  10. Saintheart Chosen One

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  11. LostOnHoth Chosen One

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    It leaves me gobsmacked that the mods can even consider shutting down a forum that has threads like this one. I mean, for reals?
  12. Moviefan2k4 Force Ghost

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    Dec 29, 2009
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    One of several problems today involves people assigning hate to people who may not actually carry any in their heart. So many people have convinced themselves that firm opposition can only be done through hate or fear, which isn't true.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  13. Ender Sai Chosen One

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  14. Saintheart Chosen One

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    He's talking about modern sociopolitical dialogue being polarised because it's impossible for the ADD generation to contemplate such a thing as middle ground, Ender, try and keep up :p
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  15. Violent Violet Menace Force Ghost

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    It appears more to me like he is arguing that people excessively ascribe hate and malice to simple political disagreements.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  16. Saintheart Chosen One

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    On that, the older I get, the more seems truer the proposition that those faults we most upbraid others for are those we see staring back at us most clearly from the mirror.
    Lowbacca_1977 and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  17. Moviefan2k4 Force Ghost

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    Dec 29, 2009
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    You're partially right. I'm talking about the core mindset of the so-called "Liberal Left", who seek to equalize everything because the very notion of an objective standard is appalling to them. For example, people with this view would prefer everyone have terrible medical insurance across the board, than a select few having a better form. They don't care about the causes behind such differences; in their minds, the mere existence of something being objectively better than anything else is damning.

    Evan Sayet did a great speech on this a few years back, called "How Modern Liberals Think". Its about 48 minutes long, but you need to watch the whole thing before commenting, because he puts tons of information on the table.

    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    ^^^^^ Looks like "excessively ascribing hate and malice" to me, when you misrepresent the arguments of those who disagree with you politically and make comments like "the very notion of an objective standard is appalling to them".
    Jedi Ben and Jedi Merkurian like this.
  19. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

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    Aaaaaand...you just made VVM's point [face_plain]
    Last edited by Jedi Merkurian, Dec 27, 2013
  20. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

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    What are you saying? That doesn't even make a lick of sense. Someone has taken the holiday mantra of eat, drink and be merry to heart.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Dec 27, 2013
  21. Moviefan2k4 Force Ghost

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    Name one member of the PC camp who admits anything is objectively true outside of personal belief.
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  22. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

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    ...with statements like "member of the PC camp".
  23. Moviefan2k4 Force Ghost

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    Labeling someone as "politically correct" when their words and actions follow that model does not equal hate or malice.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
  24. Violent Violet Menace Force Ghost

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    Labeling is itself an act of malice. By labeling, you dismiss your opponent offhand, along with whatever points he may make. By labeling him you have identified the problem right away. It's not the issue at hand that is a problem. It's your opponent. If only your opponent wasn't X, a reasonable solution would have been found.
  25. Moviefan2k4 Force Ghost

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    Dec 29, 2009
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    How is labeling inherently malicious? There's no inherent connection to ill will, and most people don't use it to hurt others' feelings. They're just making a distinction between different worldviews and behaviors.

    This is one of many reasons why I posted that video of Evan Sayet at the Heritage Foundation. One of his points is that the core philosophy of a "Liberal Leftist" is built on purging all discrimination between right or wrong, better or worse. Such a stance is self-defeating, because in order to deny objective truth, you have to rely on the existence of it.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
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