Can you be a right winger or a left winger

Original Sin is an idea that came centuries after Jesus's time. The Jews never believed in it.




I believe that the life/death/resurrection of Jesus gave everyone the opportunity to an eternal life of bliss after death as well as everlasting union with God and reunion with loved ones (possible since he was the incarnation of one of the Trinity)... as long as we followed Jesus's core message: which is to see the good and truly love one another.

Believing in and following Jesus means believing in and following his message of love, not having to be convinced that he was the Son or that he was resurrected (even though I do).

We are equal in the eyes of God, I don't believe gender differences matter to God when it comes to spiritual matters, or that any race/ethnicity/family has been chosen to be superior.

I think that Christianity is compatible to science, that the Bible isn't always meant to be taken literally in a historical or scientific sense even if it was inspired by God... truth is truth, and science is another way God created to bring us to truth. You can have a deep personal connection to God without priests or the Bible or any formal organization... you might not get it perfectly, but neither do the priests, and neither did the writers of the Bible.

As for "hell," it is the experience of us and our entire life story (with all its flaws, all our dark moments/thoughts/feelings/actions when we thought no one was looking or that no one could mind-read us) becoming instantly known by everyone. And that is contrasted with now knowing the perfection of God, and how far we fell short in life, so we are seeing it all from an objective view, from God's eyes. We are "naked" before the eyes of God, and we burn from our own shame. It's not God punishing or torturing us, it's us coming to terms with the truth of what we did and what we were meant to do. But it doesn't last forever. Eventually, whether it's a moment later or aeons later, we find peace with others and forgiveness with ourselves, through love and the help of God, and our state of mind changes so we can enter "heaven." Still, a lifetime of torture on Earth would be better than a single moment in that "hell." At the same time, there should be no fear of hell, it's just us facing the truth of ourselves. But even though there is bad, there is also good... we loved. It is love that saves us. And love is God. We achieve union with God... us living in God, God living in us... because we saw the good and loved, which was Jesus's message. Then we enter into an eternal life of bliss after death, as well as everlasting union with God and reunion with loved ones. All made possible because God is a Trinity, of which one aspect was purely incarnated into the world as Jesus Christ... who lived, died, and resurrected to show us the power of love and be the bridge between God and us, God's reflected image onto the universe, getting God to recognize us as part of his incarnation since we too love, and God is love.

People who are "Christian" who are motivated by fear of hell, or greed for heaven, instead of being Christian out of love for God, miss the point.. as well as fail to use their critical thinking abilities that God gave them, too swayed by their particular church or priest to question their interpretation, because of this fear or greed (that the priest or church probably instilled in them to begin with). And while it captures some by their fear and greed, it pushes away others who would otherwise consider a "loving God" -motivated Christianity.



Anyways. this was just to show you that now, the story of Adam and Eve and Original Sin is not a necessary part of Christianity. And to show some of the conservative Christians here that there is another way to view Christianity. Moviefan2k4 Skywalker8921

Maybe I'm right, maybe I'm wrong. But either way, I'm happy and at peace with the universe... because I believe it is fundamentally good, and love it and the truth, and trust in that... whatever the truth may be.

 

If the former is the point of Christianity and the latter is only secondary (and by the latter I assume you include His death for our sins on the cross as well), then, pray tell, what is the point behind verses like Genesis 3:15, Matthew 1:21, ect? And how do you explain Paul's words in Romans 5:8-17? Paul's writing in Romans completely deflates your claim that original sins didn't come until centuries after Jesus, since Paul was a comtemporary of His.

 

The above posts illustrate one of the many problems with the different branches of Christianity. If Christians can't even agree on some of the most basic tenets of their faith, why should I trust them about anything else?

 

This entire discussion, I think, clearly underlines the problem with politics as I see it in the United States. What should be a political discussion that is based on reason and discourse open to some pragmatism has become, to some, inexorably tied to religious beliefs that are a functional opposite from that, on top of the already pervasive and dangerous political dogmas that some have.

The US will never be able to maintain a healthy political climate so long as people push to make their decisions based on theology rather than rationality.

 

Well said Lowie.

 

Against my better judgment, I am again responding to you despite you not yet responding to that video I posted...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis 3:15&version=NIV
A creation myth on why Humans and Snakes don't always get along. It being some foreshadowing or prophecy regarding Jesus is baloney.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew 1:21&version=NIV
What I just posted isn't Jesus saving people from their sins?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 5-8:17&version=NLT
You should have narrowed the passage down to something a little shorter. But aside from the author taking the Adam story perhaps too literally, what's the conflict with what I said?
As for original sin in that quote, it doesn't say that everyone inherited Adam's sin and that Jesus erased this proliferating sin of Adam... it says everyone died because everyone sinned, and Adam was the first one to bring it into this world, condemning us to live in a world with sin and death. That's not the doctrine of Original Sin, even if you do take this and the Adam/Eve creation myth literally. You should do some research into the history of the idea of Original Sin, how it came about and how many don't believe in it and why. But like I said, I don't take the origin story literally, so the passage only has some deeper and less-obvious meaning, if any. More likely, the author was just misled by taking the myth too literally.
Btw, Paul never met Jesus, he wasn't one of the Apostles. And even of the Apostles, Jesus thought them slow to understand his message and sometimes misunderstanding it.


Now, I'm probably not going to respond to you again until you at least watch that first video. It's long, but it's worth it. It uses Biblical argument, and the young man is much better at articulating it than I am. If you really value the words of the Bible, you shouldn't shy away from a video that analyzes and uses those words to make a powerful case for love.

Are there two people anywhere in the world that agree on absolutely everything?

This is like saying you can't trust Americans, since we can't even agree on some of the most basic tenets of our nation. Because there is a debate going on within an organization or ideology doesn't mean the entire organization/ideology should be scrapped away, that's irrational.

I exhausted all the legal and political arguments, pointing out multiple times that religious reasons are not legal reasons in the United States. They resorted to just using religious argument, or using some bad argument on gay marriage leading to more cohabitation and higher healthcare costs and other such nonsense.

They probably didn't think there was someone who could argue with them on religious grounds, and I wanted to prove them wrong.

 

That, my friend, is a question even Christians can't answer and probably never will. And unfortunately, these splinter divisions don't, I think, make us as effective as we could be, and in some cases lead to downright disaster. The split between RCC and EOC is a prime example, and that led to the Fourth Crusade.

 

Awareness of sin and repentence through confessing Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord have always been a key part of Christian theology. To downplay that is to weaken Christianity.

 

It's good to have healthy debate inside of a religion, instead of unquestioning obedience to those who proclaim themselves to have religious authority.

 

Since the U.S. was founded on Biblically-consistent principles, its pretty difficult for most Christians to discuss their political stances without referencing Jesus, God, or the Bible.

 

No, the US was not founded on Biblically-consistent principles. It was founded on the basis of religious freedom.

http://www.alternet.org/story/15598...t_--_and_has_never_been_--_a_christian_nation

 

It's no use, I already said that many, many times in this thread.

 

We all have. They are not here to discuss or debate, but to preach hallelujah praise Jayzus. I suggest you all stop wasting your time.

 

The very notion of religious freedom is a Judeo-Christian concept. Most other faiths either detach themselves from outsiders entirely (Buddhism), or advocate destroying those who refuse to convert (Islam).

 

Religious freedom isn't unique to Judeo-Christian belief. It is an inherent human right.

Also, for what it's worth, Christianity advocates killing those of other faiths as well: Exodus 22:19, 2 Chronicles 15:12, Deuteronomy 13:13 and Deuteronomy 17:2

 

Inherent human rights only come from God, not ourselves. As for your assertion about the Old Testament, that goes back to the pattern I mentioned earlier. God told people He was their Creator, and as such His commands were to be followed. By commanding His people to enter those cities, He set a time limit for repentance. Those who refused to heed God's warnings paid with their lives, and sometimes those of their children for leaving them on an active battlefield.

Some are so quick to lay the blame on God, calling His ways unjust or unfair...but as C.S. Lewis once said, "a man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line". In order to know what's objectively wrong, you have to allow for objective truth. The two are inseparably linked.

 

God doesn't exist, so no, inherent human rights only come from ourselves.

 

It existed before. Look at Cyrus in Persia, and Asoka in India. It's not fundamentally a Juedo-Christian concept.

And you don't understand much about Islam. They are commanded to respect those who don't convert to Islam, especially the "People of the Book" (aka Christians and Jews). In the ancient Islamic caliphates, they were just given an extra tax or something of that nature. Not killed. You should learn about the history of Islam.

 

Islam wasn't founded until 600 years after Christ's earthly ministry, and Muhammad himself said he had no miracles from Allah to confirm his new gospel. By contrast, every Biblical prophet performed miracles as evidence of their being appointed by God, who has always existed before time, space, or matter.

 

Evidence?

 

The main thing keeping you from faith has nothing to do with logic or reason; your signature's evidence of it. The burden of proof for every naturalist assertion is on naturalism, and the same is true for spiritual matters...but the two aren't polar opposites. Science can be used to explain why Christianity makes sense; that's what apologetics is all about.

 

The existence of nature itself. We exist, therefore something or Someone must have always existed. Natural laws only apply to nature, not beings beyond it.