PT Can you imagine Qui-Gon working with Dooku?

Which corroborates my argument.

Those are Anakin's choices and have nothing to do with Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon claimed Anakin was the Chosen One, the person who is destined to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force. When Anakin fullfilled the prophecy, Qui-Gon was proven to be correct. What Anakin decided to do until he fullfilled his destiny (which he could have done when Mace had defeated Sidious) is on him, not Qui-Gon.

Episode VI. Could have been Episode III, but Anakin chose to screw everything up before doing what he was destined to do.

Nice cherry picking.

No, he isn't.

"I don't sense anything [regarding the mission]."

"Don't center on your anxieties, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now, where it belongs."

"[Be mindful of the future] But not at the expense of the moment."

Where's the dismissal?

"Supplicated himself"?!

"I'm sorry for my behavior, Master. It’s not my place to disagree with you about the boy. And I am grateful you think I'm ready to take the trials."

He knew he was out of place and apologized. It was Obi-Wan who was being disrespectful.

I'm arguing I don't see any anger (which you claim that exists) when he replies to Obi-Wan's sarcasm.

Yes. What's wrong with his method? It seems to have worked.

Jar Jar isn't that way all the time.

He's replying to Obi-Wan.

Let me get this straight: you're complaining that a dying person used his last words to make sure he sets in motion the events that he believed would lead to the balance of the Force instead of making an unnecessary question about the well being of his apprentice? Seriously?

Except I had already written the whole thing.

No, it's the abursdity of the claim itself that you're trying to use as an argument. According to your logic, a parent his responsible for the crimes of their offsprings. If you can't see what's wrong with it, there's nothing I can do.

And yes, I replied this time because you apparently happened to be serious about your claims. I guess I would have preferred if you were trolling.

 

?? Your argument was (and I quote) "Liam Neeson didn't decide his dialogue and actions." I'm not sure what, exactly, it is about your argument that you think has been corroborated.

Perhaps you and I differ on the providence of the term "proven to be correct". That a man eventually destroys the Sith after helping put him in power and throwing the galaxy into darkness - ie he puts right a situation he himself helped cause in the first place - does not enter my definition of being "proven...correct". He is "proven to be correct" in the same way that Anakin is "proven to be correct" in his having had visions of Padmé dying. Is Anakin, therefore, "proven to be correct" in how he reacts to his insight?

Let me put this more clearly Anakin falls for the very reasons the other Jedi sense in him, precisely because of the circumstances he was in when Qui-Gon discovered him; the whole set-up was arranged that way by Lucas, Lucas put alot of thought into ensuring that Anakin should be just the right age, have just the level of attachment, be just so insecure in himself (having been a slave) that his fall would be a natural corollary of his training by the Jedi. The other Jedi recognised this..Qui-Gon didn't and insisted that the boy must be trained. Anakin helped bring about the reign of the Sith, as he was destined (ie set up) to do, Qui-Gon was too blinded by his own beliefs to see that.

So...was he "destined" to do what he did only in EpIV? That's not the way that Lucas sells it. As above, Lucas made sure Anakin was in just the right state whan Qui-Gon discovers him that he will fall. Anakin helps put the Sith in control of the galaxy...all he does in EpIV is clear up the mess he helped make.

"Proven to be correct" = foresight of an individual sorting out a mess that might have been avoided had he never been trained in the first place?

How is it "cherry picking"? What a weird position to take. I am evidencing my position. You claimed that "He disagrees with him and explains why. That's not being dismissive." and I refuted that he wasn't dismissive by directly quoting a line of Qui-Gon's to Obi-Wan where he not only disagrees but dismisses him.

Again, perhaps we differ on the meaning of "dismissive"/"dismiss". Obi-Wan tells him he senses something. Qui-Gon tells him he doesn't sense anything...therefore whatever it is that Obi-Wan senses must be irrelevant (seems to be the logic). Obi-Wan then says that Yoda told him he ought to be aware of the future and Qui-Gon simply dismisses that also..as you say he says "But not at the expense of the moment."...I'm surprised so few see the irony in this, given that once he gets the idea of Anakin as the Chosen One in his head he is fixated upon some nebulous future event, ill-foreseen in some ancient prophecy which blinds him to Anakin's state "here and now"...

He dismisses Obi-Wan's senses because he doesn't have them...he only acts on his own insights, having no time for those of others around him (which we see later again in the Council).

Right there ..."It's not my place to disagree with you about the boy"....why isn't it? That is supplication, defining your lower standing to the one you supplicate to. Again..how is it not his place to disagree? He has to agree with everything Qui-Gon believes?

So (and as I asked originally) what do you see, if anger is the wrong term?

Palpatine's plan worked as well.....if it works its ok hardly seems a reasonable qualitative system for a Jedi to operate under, I think.

No, but Qui-Gon is.

So...what have you gleaned his deeper motivations from? Not the dialogue or his actions I would argue (and pretty much the point I'm making).

Where has "the here and now" gone? Qui-Gon is fixated on his own agenda and his own insights and thoughts throughout. He gives not one jot about those around him.

Except I'm talking about Qui-Gon's actions. About his lack of care for his padawan, his lack of insight into Anakin's true state as it really is "here and now", his intransigence in the face of any and all objections to his view that...as Lucas tells us, leads to a very messed up young boy being trained as a Jedi...a training he is ill-equipped to deal with and which leads to his helping to bring about the very mess which even needs sorting out by EpVI.

 

In the novelization, this is Obi-Wan's perspective on Jar Jar and Qui-Gon, shortly after they've gotten into the bongo submarine:


Obi-Wan closed his eyes in dismay. This was a disaster waiting to happen. But it was Qui-Gon's disaster to manage. It was not his place to interfere. Qui-Gon had made the decision to bring Jar Jar Binks along, after all. Not because he was a skilled navigator or had displayed even the slightest evidence of talent in any other regard, but because he was another project that Qui-Gon, with his persistent disregard for the dictates of the Council, had determined had value and could be reclaimed.

It was a preoccupation that both mystified and frustrated Obi-Wan. His mentor was perhaps the greatest Jedi alive, a commanding presence at Council, a strong and brave warrior who refused to be intimidated by even the most daunting challenge, and a good and kind man. Maybe it was the latter that had gotten him into so much trouble. He repeatedly defied the Council in matters that Obi-Wan thought barely worthy of championing. He was possessed of his own peculiar vision of a Jedi's purpose, of the nature of his service, and of the causes he should undertake, and he followed that vision with unwavering single-mindedness.

Obi-Wan was young and impatient, headstrong and not yet at one with the Force in the way that Qui-Gon was, but he understood better, he thought, the dangers of overreaching, of taking on too many tasks. Qui-Gon would dare anything when he found a challenge that interested him, even if he risked himself in the undertaking.

So it was here. Jar Jar Binks was a risk of the greatest magnitude, and there was no reason to think that embracing such a risk would reap even the smallest reward.

 

Qui-Gonn would not have joined the Dark Side.

 

Considering he came back as a Force Ghost at times to 'advise' and still teach Obi-Wan Kenobi plus Master Yoda ... and the fact he did duel Darth Maul ... and the fact well ... he did remark compassion and self-sacrifice are the key to immortality if not true immortality - not the Sith's way as Sith are selfish and violent ...

 

Liam had no control over what his character said or did. He just had to do it.

Dude, Qui-Gon had no idea Anakin would do any of this. He just assumed Anakin had potential and, more importantly, he wasn't planning on dying before he could train the boy. I'm sure had he lived, he would've been able to work Anakin through all his issues.

Again, Qui-Gon had no idea. He didn't look at Anakin and said, "DANGER DANGER DANGER!" He looked at him as a kid with potential to be a great Jedi. Not his fault everyone else treated Anakin like he were a vat of sulfuric acid. Are we really expecting Qui-Gon to have clear insight on events two decades hence?

Qui-Gon seems to be a stern teacher who wants his apprentice to act right. IIRC, they were just about to re-take Naboo from the TF, so Obi-Wan going off on how the boy was a walking catastrophe waiting to happen was the last thing Qui-Gon needed.

I always figured he was telling Obi-Wan to be cautious with his senses, to not assume that the first thing he sees is the one true fact.

So Qui-Gon can't instill discipline when Obi-Wan is bluntly telling him, "The boy is dangerous, they all sense it why can't you?" Really? They're about to embark on a suicidal mission and his apprentice's mind is too busy focused on the potential danger Anakin might be rather than...the mission.

He might have just been disappointed.

So disciplining a Padawan and telling someone in your group to quit embarrassing everyone at the dinner table is...humiliation? He should just let Obi-Wan mouth off to whoever he damned well pleases and allow Jar-Jar to potentially gross out everyone by catching food with his tongue?

On what? That he got tired of Obi-Wan mouthing off to him and Jar-Jar bumping into things and displaying a complete lack of table manners?

If he gave 'not one jot' about anyone, then why did he save Jar-Jar? Why did he go through all that trouble to free Anakin and take the boy to Coruscant?

Are we seriously expecting Qui-Gon to be able to glean an exact detail of everything that's going to happen 20 years hence? "Always in motion is the future." He sensed that Anakin had potential, planned to be Anakin's master. He just didn't count on a Sith Lord shoving his lightsaber into his torso.

 

Yes.....your point being? My point is, Liam Neeson played the character as profound and compassionate (and he did it very well) but when you look beyond how he plays him and actually at his dialogue and his actions (those things Liam has no control over) a very different picture emerges.

No...no..no. He didn't just see that Anakin had potential, he saw him as the Chosen one of prophecy. That is what he is fixated upon. He demands it in the Council and he demands it to Obi-Wan. What his plans are or were is irrelevant. He is acting on a prophecy. Whatever comes to pass is an aspect of that prophecy. It is no different to Anakin acting on his visions. He sees what is to come, but actually brings it about by doing so. It is his desire to act upon the vision which brings about everything that occurs as an aspect of that vision.

No, we shouldn't expect Qui-Gon to have clear insight on events whether ten years from now or at any future point. Anymore than that we should expect a Jedi in some long distant past to foresee events at some nebulous future time. And yet that latter is exactly what Qui-Gon acts upon. Odd how people's expectations alter depending upon the srgument they're making. We shouldn't expect Qui-Gon to know what will come, but we'll approve the idea of believing that some mystic from the past can do exactly that.....

And, you're right...he doesn't see DANGER DANGER DANGER!...whereas every other Jedi does - including his own padawan. Why? Because despite his advice to Obi-Wan not to be mindful of the future at the cost of the present, he is so enamored of the prophecy (a foretelling of some future event) that he cannot see what everybody else does in the here and now; ie Anakin's state of mind, the danger his training will pose.

Whereas tagging a nine year old boy along is exactly what they need. That's not a distraction at all


Obi-Wan recognises why Qui-Gon has taken Anakin. Despite the Council's decision he is going to train him anyway. He says to Anakin that he cannot train him....but that he should stay close and watch. So, in other words, he is going to ttrain him even though he's not supposed to. Obi-Wan has every right to question what Qui-Gon is actually doing.

Irony alert. Qui-Gon is fixated upon the "one true fact". That "fact" is his own sense at any given moment. It is a trait he shows throughout the movie.

As above. Qui-Gon is going on a "suicidal mission" and taking a nine year old boy with him.....in order to surreptitiously train him against the Council's advice...and Obi-Wan is at fault for questioning him?

Thank you. My point still stands then...and we can dispense with the obfuscation of it. So, to re-phrase. Qui-Gon's disappointment in Obi-Wan is not about his use of the term per sé (he wouldn't have been disappointed if it were about Jar Jar, he could hardly be given his own reflections of said character) but only that it was about Anakin, who he sees as in some way of special value.

Doesn't really address the point that.... "if it works" is hardly a reasonable argument for a Jedi (its a pretty good reflection of Anakin's line on Naboo to Padmé). It depends what form "disciplining" takes, doesn't it? Also...what you are disciplining him for (questioning his tunnel vision regarding Anakin and his inability to see that which every other Jedi sees....an insight which truly is "proven to be correct"...but that somehow we shouldn't expect Qui-Gon of being capable of seeing....????)

Or how about....I don't know, speaking to Jar-Jar...like one being to another, with respect. Instead of humiliating him for what might well be perfectly reasonable behaviour in his own society.

Or...to put that another way. That he broaches no dispute with his own ideas...and not just from his padawan. He is equally contentious with the Council. He seems incapable of showing the deference he demands of his padawan to those on the Council....and even goes behind their back to 'train' the boy anyway (and hence taking a nine year old boy on a "suicide mission"; and that he consistently treats Jar-Jar with no respect for him as an individual with rights.

Because, in both instances, he see in them a use. He see them as having a use. He cares for Anakin in terms of his being "The Chosen One" of prophecy.

He is acting on a prophecy. He seems more than happy to make his own mind up about what that means. Every other Jedi sees the danger in Anakin's training, that is "proven to be correct". Why should I not expect Qui-Gon to be able to see the same?

 

Things went wrong the Republic when Palpatine was elected. Had Qui-Gon survived Naboo there was nothing he could have done to stop the tide of war to come.

 

Qui-Gon Jinn and Dooku knew each others since QG was 10. Their relationship was not a good one and when QG became a Knight, each went his way. D knew there was no way he could bring QG on his side if he lived ; it was just a way to create a bond between him and Obi-wan to better manipulate him. D focused on politics because it was Power he craved for unlike QG who focused on the Living Force that means on peoples. They were completly different and had different vision of the Force and of the role of the Jedi in the Galaxy. D didn't succed in turning Obi-wan to the Dark Side (like he did with Sora Bulq and Co.) and it is with QG that it will work ? Don't make me laugh. But this you already knew it, isn't it ?
Thank you for reading me.

 

Can I just point out how freaking brilliant this exchange between the Sith who was obsessed with immortality and the Jedi who achieved it is?

 

That what you described as "innate humanity" is part of the character, not dependent on the actor.

What?! Palpatine was already in power. Anakin 'merely' helped him destroy the Jedi, something was going to happen anyway, with or without him.

Again, he didn't create the situation. He helped maintain it.

Yeah, strawman logic doesn't fit my definition of "proven correct" either.

Anakin is proven correct in that his visions came true. How he reacted to those visions is a different issue.

Thanks for bringing Lucas into the issue. He claimed that Anakin was the Chosen One and that Qui-Gon ended up being right about the prochecy. That should settle it.

Qui-Gon recognized it as well, he never disagreed with the Council's argument about him being too old. However, and most importantly, he recognized that Anakin was the Chosen One.

He was destined to do that? According to whom? There's nothing in the movies stated that. What he was destined to do was to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force. Like I said before, he did that in RotJ, but could have done it earlier in RotS.

No, he was just destined to do something. What he does meanwhile is irrelevant to the argument.

Lucas set it up to establish the character (and how good he was), and the uncertainty of training someone that old. Of course, he had already shown was what he was going to become.

"Proven to be correct" = having his belief turned into a fact and be fullfilled. Qui-Gon believed he was the Chosen One, nothing more. Anakin proved he was the chosen one when he destroyed the Sith (which already existed) and brought the Force back into balance (which was already out of balance without his involvement). Are you going to keep using the strawman of the misdeeds Anakin did until he fullfilled the prophecy and continue to ignore my argument?

Really? Why did you ommit the part where he refutes Obi-Wan's argument?

Your logic, based on nothing. He didn't say Obi-Wan's senses were irrelevant. He just said he didn't sense anything. Obi-Wan was proven to be right about his senses, but that's not what your argument is about.

You see that 'but' at the beginning of his sentence? But' is a conjunction, you know, a word that complements what was said before. he's not being dismissive, he's complementing what Obi-Wan said: that he should be mindful of the future, but not at the cost of ignoring the present.

He doesn't.

Because he has nothing to do with it. Only Qui-Gon (who discovered him) and the Council (who decides who is allowed to begin Jedi training).

He's apologizing, he's not begging for it.

No, who said he had to?

I'm not the one with the burden of proof.

Indeed, hence why I asked what's wrong with his method? Because I can say what's wrong with Palpatine's actions.

Child-like? Do you recall what your argument was?

The fact that he continued to watch over him once Jar Jar 'helped' him go through the planet core?

What?!

Yeah, not one jot...

No, you're using absence of evidence as evidence of absence. And that's not how things work.

Where does he show lack of care? The fact that he didn't using his dying breath to state the obvious (that Obi-Wan was alright) is not proof.

Where does he show lack of insight into Anakin's "true state"?

When did Lucas say that Qui-Gon's resilience led to Anakin making bad choices? Anakin's bad choices had nothing to do with his Jedi training nor with Qui-Gon's decision to train him.

Wrong. The mess was already there.

 

An interesting argument...a pity that whereas I backed my position up with examples you feel it is enough of an argument to simply state it as a prima facie 'fact'. The form of this argument appears to be - 'I have stated it thus it is true'. Or, as I put it before, I'm not sure how you feel this argument has been corroborated.

So...Palpatine already had the power he required by TPM? By AOTC? By the beginning of ROTS? What were those films about then? Why did he wait until the end of ROTS to play his hand? At least you have the decency to belittle the term 'merely' regarding his helping Palpatine destroy the Jedi. I note that you don't mention that he stopped Mace from killing Palpatine...an action that would have stopped Palpatine's plans in their tracks.

No, he definitely helped to create the power that Palpatine craved, he helped to create the situation we are confronted with in ANH and on...

It really isn't a strawman though. The real strawman is the attempt to bypass what you mean by "proven to be correct". Let me clarify. That the prophecy comes to be fulfilled, is true is not the same as Qui-Gon having been "proven to be correct". That argument is based on a notion that only Anakin can destroy the Sith, which is not a given. What comes true is that Anakin does destroy the Sith. I will go into this idea further a little later, where I think the point is better made. Suffice it to say for now that, that the prophecy comes to fruition is no more evidence of Qui-Gon's choices "being proven to be correct" than Anakin's choices are "proven to be correct" when he responds to his own visions.

Different, only in your mind. Anakin, in acting on the vision brought it about.

Lucas said that the prophecy came true. He has also said that Qui-Gon was both right and wrong.... not quite so settled after all.

When is it Qui-Gon agrees that Anakin is too old? I'm assuming there must be such a moment as you regard him as having not disagreed....?? And...yes, it is his focus on this ill-defined prophecy of some nebulous future event that drives his decision making - utterly in opposition to the advice he gave to his padawan regarding being aware of the future, but not at the expense of the present.

Wow...the logic in this. Astounding. So...we accept that Lucas said that the prophecy came true. Anakin did destroy the Sith, just as the prophecy said. But...if the prophecy came true, why are you arguing for some other outcome? That is what you are doing, you are claiming that some other unfulfilled pseudo-prophecy might instead have come true.

What is a prophecy? It is a foretelling of future events, yes? If the prophecy is true, is fulfilled by events then those events are that prophecy. Lucas tells us the prophecy is fulfilled in ROTJ...so the events of ROTJ are the fulfillment of the prophecy....in being true to the prophecy they are the events that were foreseen. There is no point in talking about some other event that did not occur as being a 'potential' fulfillment of the prophecy because the events of ROTJ are the events that define the truth of the prophecy.

That, surely, is the only sense that can be made of Lucas' words regarding Qui-Gon being both right and wrong. He is right in as much as the prophecy comes true, but wrong in that he sets about the events that lead to that moment. Just as Anakin brings about the fate he has foreseen for Padmé, so Qui-Gon brings about the events that lead to Anakin's fulfillment of the prophecy. Those events include Anakin's fall - exactly the danger that every other Jedi sensed but Qui-Gon ignored.

The events of ROTJ are the fulfillment of the prophecy (an event foreseen), a prophecy that is true because of the events of ROTJ. What he does leads to that moment, to the fulfillment of the prophecy. How can they be "irrelevant"?

Lucas makes a point of explaining the thought process behind Anakin's age. He set him up to fall, and he sets Qui-Gon up to hoist him upon the Jedi Order.

The misdeeds of Anakin are what lead to the moment of the fulfillment of the prophecy in ROTJ, they are in no way irrelevant to the prophecy, which as I have explained is true because of the events foreseen - ie the events of ROTJ. Everything that leads up to that moment must be seen as an aspect of the prophecy. That moment can only come about because of the actions leading up to it.

Ermmm...because I'm responding to your claim that he only argues with Obi-Wan and doesn't dismiss him....so pointing out that he does dismiss him (this, by the way, is much closer to the idea of a strawman than anything you have described as such - ie an obfuscation of the actual argument being made by the pretence of another)

Let me think now... He doesn't even ask what it is that Obi-Wan senses, pays no heed to it and tells ObiWan to pay no heed to it either. Perhaps, as I have said, we have different opinions of "dismiss"/"dismissal" but, to me that looks like "dismissing" Obi-Wan's sense of something "elsewhere".

But is used (as a dictionary definition) "to introduce a phrase or clause contrasting with what has already been mentioned". W use "but" to dismiss prior propositions.

So...in what way does he take Obi-Wan's sense on board? Does he even ask him what it was he sensed? Again...perhaps we have different definitions of "dismiss"

1 Order or allow to leave; send away (as I cited when he question Qui-Gon's choices regarding Anakin)

2 Treat as unworthy of serious consideration (as he does when Obi-Wan tells him he has sensed something)

What definition are you working to?

I like the way you have separated these....."Not my place" is supplication. As part of his apology he supplicates himself (Makes it clear that he is humble)...only then does Qui-Gon deign to speak to his padawan. How has he nothing to do with it? You've just recently been arguing that they are going on a "suicide mission" to which Qui-Gon is bringing a nine year old boy, who he clearly means to train regardless of the Council's clear advice otherwise...

There seems to be an element of 'do what I say, not what I do' here from Qui-Gon.

Really? The quote is just there, if you look up a little. I'll remind you "It's not my place to disagree with you about the boy"

What burden of proof? I asked you what you see, as you clearly say it is not anger. Of course you can carry on obfuscating the actual point if you wish to but another poster has put forward another phrase, which allowed me to rephrase the question .....and thus address the actual question, what the question was actually about. Of course you can pretend that wa s never said and carry on with obfuscation, that is your entitelment....or you could address the actual point being addressed. Up to you, as it goes.

So you think it acceptable to treat another being with zero respect? That's a reasonable course for a Jedi to take? You see nothing wrong in a Jedi's actions and words being contemptuous, disrespectful and humiliating to another being?

This...really? What I was responding to was "Jar Jar isn't that way all the time", what I said was "No, but Qui-Gon is". Clearly (you would have to be really stretching it to understand it otherwise) I am referring to how Qui-Gon was (disrespectful, treating Jar-Jar like a child).

And on that note....if you are interested in an actual discussion I'll be here. Otherwise....I'm not big on games.[/quote]

 

Actually, I can imagine any of the Jedi characters becoming a Sith. All of them possessed their own particular traits that could make them turn.

 

Qui Gon seemed closer to Luke than Anakin. Dooku more resembled Anakin in motives for turning to Sith for greater power and to be greater than any Jedi. Luke is more a combination of Jinn/Kenobi while Anakin was somewhere between Dooku and Maul.

 

If anything, I could see Qui-Gon being the reason Dooku does NOT turn against the Jedi and the Republic. Qui-Gon might have been an independent thinker, but he was also one of the purest proponents of how a Jedi worked with the Force. He would have been a positive anchor for Dooku.

 

The prophecy stated that someone will bring balance to the Force. I don't recall it saying anything about simply destroying the Sith.

 

We do have Obi-Wan's statement in ROTS:

"It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them"

And earlier:

OBI-WAN: With all due respect, Master, is he not the Chosen One? Is he not to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force?
MACE: So the prophecy says.
YODA: A prophecy . . . that misread could have been.

So, the Jedi at least think it says "destroy the Sith" and "bring balance".

 

Qui Gon dying was a big part of why dooku left the order

 

In the EU. Apparently not in the newcanon - where he was already arranging the murder of Sifo-Dyas and masquerading as him to the Kaminoans, as well as using the name "Tyranus" during Chancellor Valorum's administration.

 

I imagine he would completely empathise with Dooku and his plight, but ultimately he would have known that Dooku was a Sith and as such wouldn't have ended up working alongside him.

Now Qui Gon meeting Dooku half way and them going it alone...that I could see.

Man, I wish Qui Gon would have survived to the end of the PT!

 

Qui Gon may have battled with the Jedi Council from time to time, but, it is clear that Qui Gon was devoted and loyal to the Jedi Way and to the Light Side of the Force. While Qui Gon may have shared some of Dooku's fake concerns about the state of the Republic, Qui Gon would have seen through Dooku's lies and realized that Dooku was now dealing in the Dark Side. There is no way Qui Gon would have followed Dooku down that path.

We know Qui Gon was loyal to the Jedi Way and the Light Side because of his belief in Anakin and the Prophecy of the Chosen One.

 

I can actually imagine this (spin off anyone?). This would be great to see as it should have played out, at least a little, in TPM. A few scenes setting up Dooku meeting with Plagueis, then secretly trying to recruit his head strong apprentice Qui Gon, who then goes to Obi Wan and mentions nothing of the sort to confuse or alter his young padawans mind set. Bring in Sifo Dyas as one of the leaders of "A new Republic" and we have the makings of a pre Phantom Menace storyline.

 

I could see Qui-Gon joining with Dooku. I can't see Qui-Gon joining with Tyranus.

 

How do you know Dooku's concerns are 'fake'? Sure sounds like an assumption of someone that merely wants to condemn a man to me. Leaving the Jedi does NOT make one a terrible person.