JCC Canadian Parliament shooting

I think any attempted thread on "Islam" is futile as "Islam" means different things to different people depending on what country they live in, cultural background, socio-economic status, et ctec. We tend to focus on the brand of Islam practised in countries like Iraq, Syria, Afganistan, Pakistan etc but ignore countries where the text is given a more liberal interpretation or is completely ignored or rationalised. I mean we could quote the scripture line by line and get all outraged/amused/hysterical but we could also just provide a link to the skeptics annoted bible, koran and book of mormon and save ourselves all of the trouble.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

 

yeah but i think my point is that that's basically what most posters seem to want to do (fantasize about how muslims are somehow this unique, unreformable "Threat to Civilzation"), not actually address islam in the cultural, geopolitical, and historical context in which it exists. that's more or less what people want to do in the "understanding christianity/mormonism" threads, but at least there we have willing and active members of those groups to provide an insider perspective (Boba_Fett_2001 if you do wish to fill this role then dont let me steamroll you or anything, it just seems like your participation in this thread so far has more or less confirmed that you have no interest in such a discussion at this time, which is fine) whereas in this hypothetical thread its just going to be people quoting sam harris and snippits of suras from their armchairs about their daring and politically incorrect take on a huge, multifaceted, multi-secterian, and constantly morphing (again, like any religion or any other cultural institution) faith they've had negligible direct contact with

 

I actually would like a thread where we could have it discussed on what is and what is not. Seems the only time we discuss Islam today is when **** blows up or there's a war in the ME. And thats pretty much the only time the media talks about it. Same with Africa and the latest deadly disease. Thats it.

Now if people don't want the thread thats fine. But I look at some of the other threads here on Mormonism and Christianity threads. We should have a thread that does address the cultural, and historical context of things. There have been members of the Islamic faith here over the years and it would be a good idea if there were a thread where we could gain a better understanding of the differences in that faith.

My knowledge is extremely limited. I know there are sunnis, shiias and where in the ME they are predominant. And I know a little bit of the differences in those sects. But beyond that…nothing. Never read but a few parts of the Quran. Don't know distinctions, subtleties, etc.

It would be cool to hear from people who have lived it. But if people don't want to, that's understandable also.

 

i mean you can start a thread if you want im just telling you its going to be dominated by white people who think they know but have no idea and not the fun playful version like on MTV Diary

 

I just wish more Islams would learn a thing or two from the Muslims.

 

I'd give it a crack but the extended family I have from the ME are mostly Christians and the very few Muslim extended relations come from the "yeah I'm a Muslim but I'm just going through the motions and don't believe a word of this bs" school of Islamic thought.

I agree with Rogue that we need an Islamic version of KK who can respond authoratively to the Islamic version of "magic underwear" posts.

 

By deleting the posts?

 

darth_boy actually started a pretty good "Ask me anything" thread about Islam and it was going pretty well, just not many questions. I even got to contribute positive things.

 

Then why even identify as a Muslim?

 

****ing cultural identity, how does it work?

 

I say G-d, but I fornicate and eat bacon and I'd do both at the same time if I could!!!

Screw the rules!

 

i really dont understand what's stopping you

you can do anything through the hole in the sheet

 

No double posting

 

No triple posting

 

A lot of people say God while eating bacon and fornicating.

 

Condition2, I guess I don't see why you're ringing the panic button so hard here. Do I agree that people who switch religions from Islam to something else should be killed or punished? No, of course not. But I also don't see why it concerns you so much that some Muslims do. There all sorts of unfamiliar and seemingly restrictive practices that are part of one religion or another. This true of both temporal and metaphysical concerns. Regardless, so long as they confine it to their own adherents, I don't see why it should bother anyone else.

The question is not whether a Muslim would agree with executing an apostate in some abstracted idealized fantasy world where everyone was under the rule of a just and practical Islamic ruler that governed perfectly according to religious tenets. The only real concern is whether an actual Muslim in any contemporary circumstance would go out of their way to hurt someone for apostasy where the system/government does not otherwise allow it.

Quite resoundingly, they wouldn't. Even the largest Islamist terrorist organizations boast only a few thousand members. All of them have a definite political agenda too, with pure religious concerns arguably only secondary (the overthrow of Assad, Sunni grievance with the Iraqi government, etc). If violent teachings were really so wildly popular as you claim, shouldn't these groups be larger? You've identified a bunch of stuff that could potentially be concerning. We acknowledge the potential. We also acknowledge that, while unpleasant, the potential is never quite realized, either.

 

Yes, I mean how many "Muslim" majority countries or even countries that have some form of Sharia law actually mandate the death penalty for apostasy? Somalia, Yemen, Mauritania, Sudan? Very few and the ones that do are backward. The country with the largest population of Muslims is Indonesia and there is no national law which mandates the death penalty for apostasy there or in Malaysia. I guess you need to also look at apostasy in the context of it being akin to "treason" or a form of "treason" given the context of the relevant scripture (which is not the Quoran but in various Hadiths which have their own interpretative traditions) . Now treason has always been considered a most heinous crime, worthy of the most severe punishment. In old common law the punishment for treason was to be hung, drawn and quartered and even today treason can be punishable by death and the death penalty for treason is still on the statutes. So yes, the concept of death for apostasy seems shocking and outrageous (which it is) but I guess you could say the same for treason?

You also have to look at in the context that all religious scripture can be interpreted pretty much any way you want. There are various schools of thought on whether apostasy is necessarily a capital crime We can test this easily enough.

ITT post your most bellicose line or passage of scripture (from whatever holy book) and I guarantee it can be interpreted to be a message of love and peace.