Canadian Politics: 2011 Edition

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Raven, Mar 24, 2011.

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  1. Piltdown Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    star 5
    Firstly, I could in no way call this interesting. Ignatieff accused the conservatives of being control freaks and shutting down democracy for two hours, and attacked Harper. Layton spoke like an idealist hippie and never showed any indication of having a means to an end (typical NDP), and attacked Harper. Duceppe quacked and literally waived his hands around, and attacked Harper. Harper spoke about facts that have been stated dozens of times in the past and everyone already knows; he never really put down any new arguments. None of these things are interesting, or new.

    It was embarrassing that Ignatieff puts on an attack show like an American politician; that Ignatieff inadvertently (maybe) alluded to Chairman Mao when talking about democracy; that Duceppe is even allowed out in public.
  2. Piltdown Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    star 5
    Yes. His real name is Mikhail Ignatiev and he is a red supporter from communist Russia.

    No! Obviously no one has accused him of being a communist. Plenty of people have been accusing him of being ignorant, however. Personally, I think it was an unintentional slip that brought to mind the wrong thing for a lot of people. Doesn`t make him less of an idiot.
  3. Gonk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    Yes. His real name is Mikhail Ignatiev and he is a red supporter from communist Russia.

    No! Obviously no one has accused him of being a communist. Plenty of people have been accusing him of being ignorant, however. Personally, I think it was an unintentional slip that brought to mind the wrong thing for a lot of people. Doesn`t make him less of an idiot.


    See the thing is about the people accusing him of being ignorant -- I'd be extremely surprised if almost any of these people knew the reference themselves once they heard the phrase in the debate.

    I consider myself a reasonably intelligent fellow. Although I haven't re-visited it in a while, I know of the Russian Revolutions (yes, there were two of them) that brought Communism into a government system, the invasion of Manchuria and its wonderful bridge, the struggle with Kai-Shek and the Long March, Great Leap Forward, Cultural Revolution and etc, etc...

    But the bit about the blooming flowers? That's a bit broad, and I wasn't aware of that usage by Mao. Maybe if Ignatieff had included guns and butter in the same phrase I might be smacking the facepalm, but blooming flowers is a bit general.

    Besides, I thought the whole criticism of Ignatieff was that he wasn't ignorant ENOUGH.
  4. ImpKnight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2008
    star 3
    Piltdown-

    Ignatieff's not an idiot. He has come back to Canada after being away for 30 years and has a chance at being Prime Minister. You gotta be smart to pull that one.

    I didn't say it was a great debate. It did hold my interest. I like watching stuff like that. Most of the time I yell at the screen, but whatever. The new set-up made it a little less like last election's Harper vs. Everyone Else. I agree there was not a lot of explanation from the opposition how they are going to do all this stuff. And I'll never understand how people always say that Jack Layton does well in every debate.



    The Mao thing was funny when I heard about it this morning. I don't think it's that big of a deal.



    Gonk-

    I won't jump to conclusions about comrade Ignatieff.;) But you shouldn't assume that the conservatives are going to make all kinds of tough laws just because we have more prisons. If they do, then the people can vote them out. If tougher laws are what the people want, then we'll have tougher laws. Right now there is a shortage of prisons. People get out way before the end of their sentence, which they recieved in a system you have said is not too bad, because of overcrowding

    Also, our jets are 30 years old. They need to be replaced. I don't see what the problem is.

    The corporate tax cuts were put through with the support of the Liberals.

    Those three things, and the CONTEMPT FOR PARLIMENT were Ignatieff's big issues from what I saw last night.


  5. Piltdown Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    star 5
    I don`t consider the Hundred Flowers Campaign to be even remotely obscure.

    Anyway, my point isn`t related to Ignatieff and silly comments, but rather the following question: what did last night`s debate change? Whomever found it interesting, what were the points that piqued your interest?
  6. ImpKnight Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 16, 2008
    star 3
    Nothing for me. There were no points I hadn't heard before.
  7. BLACKJEBUS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2002
    star 4
    I liked when Ignatieff called himself a "democrat" then caught himself and backpedaled and said that he just means that he loves democracy. Jeez. The guy is doing everything in his power to make himself look Canadian, and he calls himself a "democrat".

    I think Ignatieff was the only guy in the debate that may have lost anything. The rest of them just kind of treaded water.
  8. Piltdown Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    star 5
    The French debate was no more exciting. In fact, it was exactly the same. It was almost as if their discussion points were translated directly from Tuesday's debate, regardless of the questions.


    Apparently the woman that asked about creating jobs is now famous via internet social sites, but I don't really see why. :p
  9. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    Yikes! The Liberals and the Bloc Quebecois are taking an absolute pounding.

    The pundit who said that on the weekend the Liberal voters decided to vote Conservative to prevent a NDP win was probably dead right.

    Harper has his majority, and the NDP is sweeping Quebec. Now I've seen everything.
  10. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    Harper majority, eh?

    Might as well just become the 51st state at this point.
  11. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    Last time I checked the States is more liberal.

    The NDP have never formed the official opposition before, I'm pretty sure.
  12. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    Are you joking?
  13. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    The Democrats formed the gov't, hein?

    Both the leaders of the Liberals and PQs lost their seats.
  14. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    The democrats aren't liberal, though. Not in the sense you're using the term.
  15. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6

    Oh well. At the end of the day, Harper isn't much more right wing than the Democrats; my main issues with him aren't policy related, they're related to the secrecy of his government.

    I also expect that Harper will abolish public funding for political parties; the net result of that I think is going to be the NDP and the Liberals merging. We'll see what things are like when the next election happens, in five years time.
  16. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    It's not going to be dull.

    The Green Party also won their first seat, taking out a Conservative Cabinet Minister in the process. Truly interesting night.
  17. Piltdown Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    star 5
    I'm not surprised May won in Saanich. She pulled in the support of all the UVic reefers who think its brilliant to vote green, maaaan. I'm also uncertain as to whether the NDP's rise can actually be attributed to the party, or if it just represents Liberal and Bloc voters choosing a lesser evil.

  18. Gonk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 6
    Oh well. At the end of the day, Harper isn't much more right wing than the Democrats; my main issues with him aren't policy related, they're related to the secrecy of his government.

    I also expect that Harper will abolish public funding for political parties; the net result of that I think is going to be the NDP and the Liberals merging. We'll see what things are like when the next election happens, in five years time


    I don't think the merge will happen for some time yet. The Liberals will stick it out for at least one more election cycle, and will probably rebound. They won't give in yet.

    However if the Conservatives continue to be competitive, then there will be pressure 10 years down the line for the parties to merge. Think of how long it took the PCs and Reform/Alliance to get on the same page.

    I'm not big on this government and I think a lot of people voted against thier interests last night. But, at least this will solve the question of Westrn Alienation more or less once and for all. And on a large bright side, the Bloc could be gone for good.

    So while I don't like the final result, it's not all bad. And maybe the evils were necessary ones. This might be the last hangover effects of Rene Leveque and Trudeau's N.E.P going away.
  19. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    Quebec went with their core value system, which is big government; I would guess Liberal voters went Conservative.

    Sure, the Liberals can rebound. They did in the late 50's and early 60's. And undoubtedly, given real power, Canadian politicians (ie Harper) will muck it up. Though Layton now has less power than he did, albeit more seats.
  20. Piltdown Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    star 5
    The seat loss split was about 27:16 (to NDP:CON) from the Liberals. Forty-five of the 46 seats lost by the Bloc went NDP.
  21. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6

    I doubt it was that; probably the electorate did not like her exclusion from the debates, deeming it petty and unfair, though I understood why they did it. Apparently the riding has a lot of elderly people, some of whom had to vote for her.
  22. Piltdown Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2002
    star 5
    a) That was clearly hyperbole
    b) Don't under estimate the power of righteous student hippies
  23. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    Well, both Ignatieff and Duceppe resigned.

    Last night Ignatieff's speech started out well, and then just went on and on...God, he's dull. Not his fault, just ye fact.
  24. Nevermind Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2001
    star 6
    Trouble in River City: Jack Layton died this morning.

    RIP Jack.
  25. Raven Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 1998
    star 6
    Yep. Didn't find out until I got to work this morning. I didn't like the man much, but he's been the strongest and most consistent voice from the left wing of Canadian politics for the last few years.
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