Canadian Theological Debate Thread

Discussion in 'Canada General' started by Ian_Ball, Nov 17, 2001.

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  1. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    What are your thoughts on god?
    What are your reasons?
    How do you feel about other religions?

    (just trying to get some "spirited" debate going) ;)
  2. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    Isn't this topic limited to the Senate Floor?
  3. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    It`s just for people on the Canadian threads...people we`ve met, or talk to on our canadian threads on a regular basis...I don`t want 1000`s of people throwing their 2 cents in...just us Canuks.
  4. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    My beleifs? Other than the offensive nature of the word Canuck? Don't ask why I find that word offensive, I just do.

    Religious? I'm an agnostic. I was raised Athiest, but I believe there may be some truth to religion, but nothing can be proven. I consider myself quite tolerant of other religions.
  5. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    LOL, canuk isn`t offensive to me...you have a very interesting...confusing, but interesting religious belief system
  6. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
  7. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    My beliefs are complicated...I`ll try to sum it up for you.

    1)I am effectively a Satanist. No, I don`t sacrifice goats. An explanation is needed I guess. Satanisim has NOTHING to do with satan what so ever..it was just called so to frighten away closed minded people. It is a belief in yourself, and love for yourself...the cardinal sin being stupidity.

    Now...here is where my ideas interject. I believe the bible to be a guide to the human mind and body, written in parable form. Kind of like an instructional booklet to life.

    I believe the idea of god is refering to everyone themselves...Thrawn, you are god of your own world..etc, etc... You can live on in that world, or you can end it..it`s up to you. Absolute power over your own life (so to speak)

    Sigmund Freud`s psycodynamic theroy (id, ego, superego) is directly proportional with the ideas of heaven and hell...what ever our mindframe at death, is where the mind shall reside for eternity.

    Jesus was NOT a devine being (scrolls ar currently under lock and key proving this fact) but a man who was able to use 11% of his brain power...the bible is a tool that we can utilize to accomplish the same if understood correctly.

    Anyways...it goes ALOT deeper than that...5 years of thinking and research went into this..so believe me...there is proof that this idea is actually apliccable with none of the "plot holes" of everyday religion...because it combines all 12 of the major religions of the world..







  8. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    oops...Jesus note..I meant 100%, not 11%...the site woulden`t let me edit for some reason
  9. Entil`Zha Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 4
    All religion should be eliminated, it's the cause of many genocides in the past and so many more to come. Take the extremist muslims like the talibans for example, they are so quick to declare a "holy war" against anything.. should they get a papercut while writing something, they would declare a jihad against the paper company...

    The old catholic church in the 1300 to 1600 were doing the exact same thing, a holy war against infidels and non believers...

    As long as people will believe in a deity and mix those feelings with politics, we are bound to get ourselves in some serious trouble...
  10. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    Yes, but is it the religion, or the followers? although such religion is a bad thing., the followers tend to push the envelope...so maybe we should do away with all religious people, perhaps?
  11. Launch Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2001
    star 4
    My personal beliefs...

    Truly, I dont have any.

    I agree with all three of you on differnt points.

    Admiral:Religious? I'm an agnostic. I was raised Athiest, but I believe there may be some truth to religion, but nothing can be proven. I consider myself quite tolerant of other religions. Only difference, I was rasied Roman Catholic.

    Ian:It is a belief in yourself, and love for yourself...the cardinal sin being stupidity.

    You can live on in that world, or you can end it..it`s up to you.

    Jesus was NOT a devine being.


    What I dont agree with is that religion should b eliminated, but maybe just not taken so seriously. Like live your life, not let your religion run your life.



  12. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Hmmm...I am not tolerant of world religions, but I am tolerant of the people of those religions.

    Ian, you are not a Satanist, because a true Satanist does worship Satan, and they sacrifice more human infants than goats. You are known as a Luciferian, and your belief in yourself does not only explain anything about our world, but it is a bit naive. (no offense to you, I'm just stating it)

    The Bible is not a metaphorical guidebook - it states directly that Jesus is God, and if you don't believe that, then you don't believe the Bible. Jesus said I am the Way. He also said he is the Gate. All those who don't find Christ find eternal death.

    Yes, I am a Christian. Yes I am biggoted and intolerant. Yes my views are backed up biblically. But also - yes, there is always time for you to find Jesus.
  13. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    Umm, I think you may be incorrect on some of your issues actually...you might want to check out actual satanism works..not websites made up by 14 year old kids who think "evil is cool"

    The majority of my friends are christian and I love them to death for who they are, not for their beliefs.

    Izird...don`t you find it funny that you are quick to point a finger at a naive belief, yet you don`t look at your own religion? (agin, no offense to you, or anyone of your faith)

  14. Entil`Zha Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 4
    Izird: so it comes to say : " My God is stronger than any other god and if you don't believe it, we'll fight you.. " Those are the thoughts that need to be eliminated from this planet.. Note that the Bible also mentions to tolerate the others, so it comes as a contradiction here... I'm not going to mention all of the contradictions in the Bible because I'll be here for the next 24 hours or so but you must not be narrow minded on only one idea.

    Anyone can have their own belief system, just keep it for yourself, don't mix it with your way of doing business or in politic and there would be so many good changes around this little world of ours!

    By the way, I was also raised as a roman catholic, still am, but it's just part of my roots.
  15. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    Good point! discriminating against others for what they believe in is not all that good.

    The bible contradiction fact has always been answered with a cop-out answer though...as long as there are closed minds, the truth will be hard to see.

    I`m not saying I`m right...I have no clue, that`s just what I believe in..but there must be a truth out there somewhere. If people are too afraid to look, what is the point of believing in anything?
  16. Entil`Zha Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 4
    The only good answer to our way of life is this:

    Trust in yourself, you are in control of your own destiny, you make your own choices.

    There are so many things in which we can believe without always coming back to a divinity, for example, I once had a true belief in the Human race, that we could achieve anything if we just worked all together, sounds like Utopia you might say, well I believed that we would someday reach the stars as a peaceful world nation and expend in harmony. But with all the troubles around the world, (most of which are created because of racism and intolerance towards one another and many different belief systems and religions) I just can't wait for the next big asteroid to come this way and do something good which would be to rid the Universe of the destructive power of mankind.

    EDIT: well look at that, I believe in Fatalism.. anyone else wanna join? :) You won't rot in hell or die a thousand death if you join with me! Just give me 50$ each :)
  17. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
  18. Entil`Zha Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 4
  19. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    hmmm...$45 eh?, seems a bit steep just for a point of view...well I guess so, after all the church is the richest organization on the planet, so I guess you gotta start somewhere.
  20. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Ok, I'll say it again: I am tolerant of all people. But false religions I will not tolerate. The Bible does not say to tolerate everything that people do, it says to love everyone - even your enemies. I do my best to love everyone, and that is the reason I share the Gospel.

    Ian: Well, now you've got a new friend who is Christian :) I am aware of your satanist beliefs, but it has more to do with Satan than you think. I get my knowledge of such things from books on world religions, from both Christian and secular viewpoints.

    Entil'za: My God is stronger than any other god, simply because He is the only God! I believe Jesus is God because he fulfills the prophecies throughout the Old Testament. I used to think that there were contradictions in the Bible, but there are systematic explanations - not copout answers - for every question. There will always be debates - because God is a mystery beyond human understanding. However, we do know fundamental truths through the Bible - the truths on which Christianity is based, and it's cornerstone - Jesus Christ.

    Sorry I couldn't reply earlier. I had band practice in 10 minutes. I'm a busy guy.
  21. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    By the way, I have been studying Christianity and the Bible all my life, and for the past three years I have been in Bible college training to be a youth pastor. I have actually searched for a way to disprove the Bible, because I wanted an excuse to abandon my faith. God has lead me in such a way that I could never live on my own strength. That is my ultimate proof - my ministry itself is a miracle.
  22. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    If god was vengeful all those years ago at sodom etc, why has he let us slip so much in comparrison?
  23. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    ok, in response to Sodom and Gamorrah, the entire towns were sexually immoral. I'm not going to take time to look it up, but I believe it is Genesis 28 where Abraham pleads with God not to destroy the cities. He asks God to spare them if he finds 50 righteous people. God says that he will. Then Abraham says what about 40, 30, 20, all the way down to 10. God says, "ok, if you find 10 righteous people, I will spare the cities." Here's what happened...

    There was only 1 righteous man to be found. ONE!!!! Out of who knows how many! God spared that one man (Lot) and his family, but destroyed the rest of the city.

    God is only vengeful because he has to be. He cannot have sin present with him, because he is The Most Holy. The trick is now...Christ's blood paid for the sin of the whole world! Now it's up to everyone individually. Everyone has to give himself up to Christ individually, and they will be saved. If they continue their sinful lives, their punishment will come in the afterlife.

    You may ask me anything you like - seriously. And it doesn't have to be specifically to try and argue. Your last post was just a question, and I love that.

    So you see, my point is that God does not let us slip at all. Every sin will be paid for, whether you pay the price (death) yourself or let Christ pay it for you is up to you.
  24. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    Why hasn`t he rained down fire and brimstone yet? Ever see Springer? that pretty depraved ;)
  25. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Well, that is true. Springer is really depraved (and staged, but that's another thing).

    Here's the thing, right now, in the grand scheme of time, we are in what we call the Period of Grace. The Saviour of the World only came around 2000 years ago. God is holding back his wrath by his mercy until the world has heard the Gospel message.

    When the time comes, the nations of the earth will rightfully receive their judgment. That time is known as The Day of the Lord, and it will signify the end of our world.

    Put it this way...evil is a tremendous power - a force to be reckoned with. God has been holding back the evil present in our world since the first sin. In that Day, he is going to let go. As you can imagine, we are going to destroy each other, and everything will be one big mess.

    If you want to hear all about fire and brimstone, look up the book of Revelation (the last book of the Bible). It is the only prophecy left to be fulfilled.
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