Canada Canadian Theological Debate Thread

Are "true christians" opposed to the war on terrorism? What are your views on war from a religious standpoint?

Wow...my American viewpoints are gonna come out here, I can tell.

As a Christian, I don't believe the death of someone else is ever fully justified. There is only One that can give or take life; the decision is His alone...

As an American, I do *gets her neck ready for the noose here* support this war. Saddam has had 12 years to disarm. I do believe he has WMD, and I do believe, given the chance, that he has every intention of using them. He needs to be put out of power, or we're all in a lot of trouble.

Am I happy it's come to this? No. Do I wish there was a better way? Yes. Do I believe all avenues have been explored, and this is a last resort? Yes. I believe that what the United States and her allies are gonna do in the next few days could possibly save thousands of people in the long run.

*debates going into hiding*

 

Sar_Tamber_Lac your viewpoints conflict. You have more faith in the president of your country than your god?

Do you KNOW for a fact that Saddam has weapoons of mass destruction? No, we are told this by a non-objective source.

I do think that Saddam should be taken out of power as soon as possible. I think that Al-Queda members should all be arrested.

However, there are many hidden enemies to American, and worldly interests. The U.S.A. should look at it's own government as to why allies are now turning on them.

After all...the 9/11 attacks were funded by U.S. dollars. Hussein was also a cohort of the united states a few decades back. (if you don't belive me, check the world news out instead of CNN)

This situation is a spider web of evil. One side is fighing against "the great satan". With horrible tactics, and deplorable ideals.

The american allies are embarrassed that big brother got a black eye from brass knuckles he purchased. Big brother will not be pushed around...and he will make that know at any cost to his siblings.

I was born in the U.S.A, and still have my citizenship. There is alot of good in that country, but those who are, are not in power.

If you think that America is defending world interests...were were they when Osama and crew were hurling stones at mothers and daughters years ago? Where was america before the gulf war when saddam was gassing people who didn't turn out to vote for him?

Let's not forget North Korea...threats towards a country with nuclear weapons, from a country that has enough to destroy the planet three times over.

An opinion is an opinion though, and I do respect yours Sar_Tamber_Lac, no need to hide..lol..I'll miss ya!

 

my views on war:
in the OT there was a lot of war, that was because it was God's only way to communicate with people who were not doing right

however, in the NT, there is a verse that says our battle (as Christians) is not with people, but with prinicpalities.

from that basis, this is the conclusion i have made

war in the sense of self defense, or aiding a country that is unable to defend itself is inevitable, but should only be an ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT

with this war that is looming over us i find these criteria are NOT being met. since 9-11 there has been no substancial attack on the US...in fact, the only attacks have been made towards the middle east. Also, the US has weapons as war, just as Saddam does, but no one is making a fuss over that

war as it is fought now has too high of a price. if it was like it used to be, a bunch of men who choose to be soldiers going out into a field and it just being there, ok, i could deal with that, but now there are just far too many civilians who are effected. here in north america, none of us has experienced war on our home soil (except for pearl harbour, but even that, when put beside the complete devistation of entire countries does not compare) and so we do not fully understand what it is like and how much effort should be put into avoiding war at all costs.

i support the Canadian government in not entering into war without the UN backing (whatever the official term is)

so that is my view...human life is what is most important...i know there isn't much Bible in there, but that is where my convictions as a Christian lie

 

*beginning of opinion*

Sar_Tamber_Lac your viewpoints conflict. You have more faith in the president of your country than your god?

No, I'm not sayin that at all...I have all faith in the Lord. However, this world is not the way the Lord originally made it. Unfortunately, things have happened which have brought us to this point. I am not one to see people die and suffer. Makes me sick, honestly.

I do believe Saddam has WMD. Why else would he have given us such a hard time a few months back, and then, all of a sudden, oh look, our inspectors can go in now! My thought: he's hidden them, somewhere. His defiance and lack of coorperation at the potential cost of his country is enough proof for me.


The american allies are embarrassed that big brother got a black eye from brass knuckles he purchased.

Is it bad that I laughed at this? Not at you for sayin it, I mean. It just struck me as funny and sadly true.


9/11 was a terrible tragedy. I believe the things we are doing now will prevent this type of tragedy from happening some other time, some other where.


*end of opinion*

 

Are "true christians" opposed to the war on terrorism? What are your views on war from a religious standpoint?

No. "True Christians" are those who trust Jesus Christ as their only hope for salvation, and who obey his commandments - meaning "love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength," and "love your neighbour as yourself."

There are many different views that people could take on this war and support them biblically.

Here is mine. One thing is obvious: God is a hater of war and violence. Does this mean we should abandon the war on terrorism? No! The aim of the action being taken by the US right now is to destroy all power that Saddam has to create even MORE war and violence. (side note: I agree with Bush's motives, but his timing is terrible)

War is bad, but it is not sin. It is a necessity because of the sinful world in which we live. According to biblical prophesy, war will escalate (with some short periods of peace) until the end when God reestablishes his Kingdom, and Jesus Christ returns in all of his glory as the Mighty Conqueror. At this time, there will be no more need for a Theological Debate Thread.

 

Jesus is gonna lock the thread?

 

Jesus, the super mod
LOL!

 

*runs in terror*

 

Jesus is gonna lock the thread?

LOL!!! Oh my land!

*runs off to bathroom*

Wow...that was almost a pee your pants moment! That was hilarious.

 

ah well...it's a PG message fourm anyways...I'm not too worried.

 

Just a thought....


after a conversation tonight, i was thinking more about the creation-evolution continuum (yes, that's right, continuum)
there are different positions...i know this subject was brought up, but more as a vs. than as a progression
there are some that believe in literal 24 hour days of creation, others believe each day represented 1000 years, and it took taht long to create each thing...keep going and you come to the belief in each creature being created and adapting over the time span (i.e. each day represents progression, allowing for micro evolution) and then creation-evolutionists who follow the evolution theory and insert God as the instigator/director, using evolution as His means of creation, and then on the otherside, evoloution by chance

where do you fit?
Personally, i lean far away from 24h days, but don't know enouch about evolution to accapt anything more than adaptation (i.e. micro-evolution), but personally, so long as God is included a the creator, i don't see a problem with the specifics

 

Well, the calendar as we know it was invented in roman times...hence all the days being named after roman gods etc.

so for the people who wrote the bible to use that same calendar either means 2 things.

1) The concept of time is very diffrent from biblical days (old testament)

2) The bible was written after roman, or during roman times (old testament)

I belive that the bible was completely diffrent from what it is today, a bid 'ol game of telephone if you will. So it's hard to say what those people were referring to when that was written.

 

i had never thought of it that way...
the hebrew people did have a concept of time and date however, because times and dates are written all through the old testament...but they could have been a bit different. however, many other ancient people groups had very accurate understanding of time, including how long a day was.

 

I disagree with the telephone game theory. When they copied out scrolls it was done with the utmost care and precision. Every scroll was copied by hand(duh!) and if even the smallest mistake was made, the scroll was destroyed. Here's a list of other detailed requirments the jewish writers(scribes, if you will) had to follow

-Every copy had to be written in a certian number of columns of 20 letter width, with a certain number of lines per column

-each copy has to be written with a ver paticular color and quality of ink

-each copy had to be made from an authenticated origianl(no copying copies)

-not even the smallest letter could be written from memory,as one would glance at the word 'to' and write 't' and 'o' without glancing back at the original. The sribes would individaually copy every letter from the original

-letters could not connect or overlap. the distance between letters was measured by a single hair or thread

every letter of every pageand book was counted and comprared against the original. the number of times each letter of the alphabet was counted and compared against the original. The middle letter of the pentateuch( th first 5 books of the old testament) and the middle letter of the entire Hebrew bible were computed and indicated in the text. If any one of those calculations didn't match the original,the entire copy was discarded

with specifications like that, i don't understand how they could mess up. BTW I got this out of a book by Josh Mcdowell & Bob Hostetler called 'dont check your brains at the door'

TAZ

 

it is true they were very very careful, i have no doubts as to the accuracy of the text in original language. most people don't realize how precise things were...scribes were like photocopiers, the copies were exact

the differences in the manuscripts that exist now come out of different languages, or adaptations to the time to copy ws made (as in explaining the current name of a city when the original is mentioned), but even still, those differences don't have any bearing on the important things, they are no more than slight changes in telling a story to someone who knows the city where it took place and someone who doesn't. and the manuscripts that have been found for the new testiment are so close to the originals, it's amazing.

 

much of the old testament was from the telephone game so to speak. few people could read and the stories were spread by word of mouth until they were written down so the text probably has changed...this again from a nun....

 

Well concerning time...we don't know what god considered a day. However there is a passage in the bible with is over used though.

"A thousand years are to god as if a day." (paraphrase)

There was no millions etc concept of numbers. It was an exageration. A way to show that the concept of time does not exist with God.

Time itself doesn't exist

Well, the calendar as we know it was invented in roman times...hence all the days being named after roman gods etc.

Saturday and Sunday maybe.

Moons-Day, Tiu's day, Odins-Day, Thors-day, Frigga-Day.

Most are Norse...not Roman.

Our concept of numbering ideed did come from the Roman's though.

much of the old testament was from the telephone game so to speak. few people could read and the stories were spread by word of mouth until they were written down so the text probably has changed...this again from a nun....

What makes anyone think that it was passed down. Far as I know Moses was literate and could write...considering the first 5 books were written by the guy.

 

Norse...hmmm, my school has a lot of 'splainin to do...

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Your school said the days were Roman? Oi!

 

yeah...I stopped paying attention in school after they tried to tell me that no city could ever sucsessfully be built in a desert...tell that to the LasVegas tourism industry.

 

Well If you look cronologically the first five books span quite a bit of time...So even if moses did write them then he still heard the stories somewhere...there's no proof he wrote them either it's only theory. Also when people began making copies and translating the bible things were changed due to translation...the translation wasn't direct and the scrolls were translated by a guy that live in a cave and did nothing but translate the scrolls for 20 years!!!

 

the guy must have been good at it then

Im not 100% sure, but going back to the original hebrew in the creation thing...y'knon the 7 bday thing, well, the original Hebrew uses the word "yom"(as opposed to whet, I don't know)but in the context it's used in, it means one literal day, if anyone wants to talk futher about this, they can PM me...have a good nite!!

TAZ

 

Like I said befor to god time doesn't exist god only knows eternity.

 

On the subject of creation vs. evolution:

I think many theologians, certainly in most of the 20th century, have not taken the story of Adam and Eve as a literal story. They're taking it as a great myth -- that is, a story which is told to convey a theological truth, namely about the alienation of human beings from each other, from nature, and from God.
- Arthur Peacocke, Anglican Priest and Physical Biochemist

The Bible speaks to us of the origins of the universe and its make-up, not in order to provide us with a scientific treatise, but in order to state the correct relationship of man with God and the universe. Sacred Scripture wishes simply to declare that the world was created by God. And in order to teach these truths, it expresses itself in the terms of the cosmology in use at the time of the writer. The Sacred Book, likewise, wishes to tell man that the world was created for the service of man and the glory of God.
- Pope John Paul II

...as for science and religion, im issuing a restraining order. science must stay 500 feet from religion at all times.
- Judge from The Simpsons

 

Happy Easter to all our religious friends!

Since it's easter, and obvious new topic will arise (pun intended).

1) What are your views on the reserection?

2) Is easter getting as bad as Christmas? (by that I mean the true meaning being lost)