Canada Canadian Theological Debate Thread

Discussion in 'Canada Discussion Boards' started by Ian_Ball, Nov 17, 2001.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Well, Armageddon is a valley in Palestine, and that is the place where the last great battle of mankind will be fought - known as the Battle of Armageddon. If a battle has been fought there already, the Bible doesn't mention it. That doesn't rule it out though.

    Just because the falling of the walls of Jericho can be explained, that doesn't mean that it is any less of God. God certainly works within the laws of nature, but he can also work outside those laws. Jesus fed 5,000 people with 5 loaves of bread, and 2 fish. He lifted the food toward Heaven, then broke it over and over to fill hundreds of baskets. I don't think that can be explained (unless you think Jesus had a replicator).
  2. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    Good point...I`m beginning to expect that from you now ;)

    I have a great hope that all these things are true, and even if I do go to hell, I will be content in knowing that the deserving are in safe hands.

    Maybe you can put in a good word for me :) j/k

    Yet another question...this one world religion....won`t people recognise this for what it is and rise against it? I know I would...I believe enough that I know this to be a truth, and the wheels of this seem to be in motion...what is to stop us from halting this?
  3. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    I'm glad to know that you have positive feelings on these matters, but I will remind you till I'm blue in the fingers that you don't have to go to Hell. And believe me, I've already put in a good word for you - it's called prayer. I pray that Jesus will reveal himself to you as well, and that you will get to know him; not only for you, but for the many others that may be saved as well because of your influence.

    About the one world religion and everything else that is going to happen...we can't stop it, because it is prophecy. However, there are those who WILL see it for what it is and rise against it. Those people are the believers, and many more will become believers in the end because of them. In a way, it is a part of our last stand.
  4. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    Did you happen to catch Art Bell last night? he was discussing such matters as well as the supposed Atlantis location by Cuba.
  5. Entil`Zha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 4
    I tend to believe that Hell is the human's own creation. After we pass on, our conscience decides to weight what we did and if we know that what we did was for a good cause and not evil, that we will ascend to Heaven...

    Uhm.. not really clear. In other words, you create your own version of Hell, the suffering that you will get (if Hell truly exists) will be created by your imagination and only you will be able to redeem yourself, but only when your conscience will clear.
  6. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    I believe that would be technically it...since not much is known about the brain, you figure that there would be some surprises.
  7. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Entil'zha: What you say is certainly an interesting idea - it sounds like the Matrix, only non-computer generated ;)

    If you create Hell with your own mind, do you create Heaven as well? I have two problems with this idea. First of all, Heaven is supposed to be joyous beyond human comprehension, and Hell is torture beyond human comprehension. The human mind could not make this kind of thing up and live in it. The second thing is...our mind cannot create that kind of thing after we die. Modern (even medieval) science knows that the brain dies along with the body. The only thing left is the eternal soul.

    A side note...Hell was created by God for Satan and the demons. We were never intended to go there, but man screwed up, so God sent a Saviour to fix it.

    Ian: I don't know who Art Bell is...
  8. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    I think he was refering to my post..if he wasn`t we should certainly share notes.

    modern medicine assumes the brain dies along with the body...in my opinion

    don`t bring science into a religious debate if your on god`s team. ;)

    and yes, I`d assume that humans can conjure up heaven and hell..there are LOTS of things we do not understand about the human brain...

    Art Bell is a radio talk show host that talks about lots of interesting topics, last night it was atlantis and nanotechnology... www.artbell.com if you want to find out what station he`s on in your area...

    (i don`t work for art, I`m just a fan)
  9. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Yes, modern medicine does know FOR SURE that the brain dies with the body...so how the heck could we make up hell with our MINDS after we're DEAD?!?! I'm sorry, but that is just such a silly concept to me.

    Remember this - God create everything that we get science from. True science agrees with the Bible. True science is proven fact. Now that I'm to in-depth Bible study, science is a frequent discussion in relation to the Bible.

    True, we don't know a lot of things about the human brain, but it is safe to assume (by the developmental process) that we cannot conjure up things of which we have no knowledge (ie. a supernatural realm outside of our universe). If anything, I would assent to the brains potential for telekinesis, and cool stuff like that, because it would be energies cooperating (like in the movie Phenomenon).

    I'd like to hear this Art Bell guy...I LOVE concepts like nanotechnology and warp drive. I guess I'm a sci-fi nut. ;)
  10. Entil`Zha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 4
    Yes, the brain dies along with the rest of the body, but who knows what happens in the milliseconds before one's death? But I tend to believe that our soul always keeps a signal of our life and that our soul, which can be related to the essence of our conscience is the one who creates it. Our version of hell will lie upon tortures of all kinds because, as you said Izird, we don't know the "real" meaning of suffering but the soul can transmit a faint sense of it.

    As for Heaven, I'm not really sure about this one.. since I believe that we reincarnate, our soul continues on forever, we only change the envelope that contains it. And I believe that the people who are around us travel around with us during all of our lifetimes, that's why we always feel more comfortable with some people. Other who we do not really like to be with may have caused us harm in the past and the soul knows it and tells us to be careful around this one.

    The Christian church doesn't accept reincarnation, they believe in ressurection, since this is what happened to Jesus in the Bible, they focused only on this fact... I believe I read somewhere a long time ago that anyone who believed in reincarnation in a time's past was automaticaly excommuniated (sp?).. I wonder if it still stands today?
  11. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    *claps*

    Exactly! I`m not saying the brain stys alive for ever after the body dies, maybe just milliseconds after death, as Entil`Zha put it. My apologies for not clarifying(sp)

    How does science agree with the bible?How does a man walk on water? How does someone come back form the dead? How is there a virgin birth? all this is SCIENTIFICALLY IMPOSSIBLE (unless Jesus was a test tube baby)
  12. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Not only does our soul keep a signal of our life, but we will have the same consciousness as we have now that we are in the flesh. Hell may very well include tortures of all kinds. You can speculate all you want on it, but the truth is, we don't know what Hell will be like - all we know is we don't want to go there. I believe that Jesus is the way out of Hell, because no amount of good works that we do can make us worthy of Heaven.

    About reincarnation, no one will be forcably excommunicated from the church unless they do something so awful that it would affect the safety of the church (not for what they believe). We would try to correct that belief. I will call anyone my brother who believes everything that is written in the Apostle's Creed (I don't have it memorized, but I will post it later if you want). If you don't share a church's beliefs, then there is no reason to be a part of that church either.

    The reason I won't accept reincarnation is that the Bible specifically says that man has only one life to live on this Earth. Now you say that you believe that our soul continues on forever, so who created our souls? Ourselves? Are we here by our own souls conjuring up our co-existence? Hardly not.

    Also, the reason that Jesus was resurrected was to prove that he had conquered death. If the Bible (which was written over a number of milenniums) is only a very old book which doesn't tell the truth about God, then there are quite a few old authors that really worked together over those centuries to make an excellent work of fiction.
  13. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    Well, Jesus`s reserection is under scrutiny now isn`t it? with the founding of the shroud of turin...post that creed too if you want, I`ve never heard of it.
  14. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Ian, you are right, science says that is impossible, but that's not what I meant.

    I mean that true science does not disprove anything in the Bible - it doesn't disallow miracles. Miracles are those things that happen that are scientifically impossible. There is no credible branch of science that can (or that wants to) disprove the existence of God or the deity of Jesus.

    Remember our discussion about the walls of Jericho? God works both within the laws of nature, and outside those laws. Jesus did all those things that are physically impossible to prove that he is God.
  15. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    About the shroud of turin...supposedly it is an inanimate object that works healing miracles. I still think that that has been totally rejected, but even if God decided to give healing power to a cloth to resurrect Jesus, does that really make a difference? Is it anything less of a miracle?
  16. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    The Apostle's Creed

    I BELIEVE in God almighty
    And in Christ Jesus, his only Son, our Lord
    Who was born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
    Who was crucified under Pontius Pilate and was buried
    And the third day rose from the dead
    Who ascended into heaven
    And sitteth on the right hand of the Father
    Whence he cometh to judge the living and the dead.
    And in the Holy Spirit
    The holy church
    The remission of sins
    The resurrection of the flesh
    The life everlasting.
  17. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    oh, ok...I`ve heard that before.

    I`ve never heard of the shroud of turin to have healing powers...no one is allowed to touch it in it`s current location...a church ;) something tells me that this shroud is more real than most in the church are willing to admit in public.

    here is a question, if the divinity of Jesus is PROVEN to be false, how will you handle that?
  18. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    If it was proven beyond any doubt, then I would suck it up and resume my search for God (we aren't here for no reason). My challenge to every atheist and other non-Christians is to disprove the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ. You see, usually when someone sets out to do that, they end up actually finding Christ and his true message. However, if someone were actually to do that (which is the only way to prove Christ wasn't God), that would disprove my entire religion.
  19. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    My challenge to Christians is to prove all those things with out saying "The bible says so" as any part of an answer...
  20. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    By the way, I'm logging off now, and I'm going to be extremely busy this weekend - our band is travelling, and I won't be able to post for sure until next week, but if happen to get a chance to go online and post, I will. Bye for now. :)
  21. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    have fun, see ya laters
  22. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Hey Ian...I know it's been a while. While I'm home for Christmas, I won't have internet, but post anyway, and I'll reply whenever I can. We can keep going as long as you like. :) Merry early Christmas!
  23. DarthSmoke Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 2001
    hey , ian will not beon for a while i think ....(one of the friends of his going straight to hell)... so if it is a while be patient ok? cool :)
  24. Izird Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 4
    Hey, no problem there. I'll just check every once in a while to see if there's a new post. Conversation was never restricted to Ian and I, so feel free to post your piece if you like.
  25. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    What? it wansn`t? :( oh well























































    ;)
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.